All-time draft continued

[BM67]

I think my #5 top line has an advantage over the #4 just for the fact that all 3 of my guys have the chemistry and have all played together. Just MHO

Blake retired after the 1947-48 season, Beliveau started in 1950-51 and Henri in 1955-56, so they didn't play together. Blake coached the other two, but he never played with them, and since Beliveau and Henri are both centers they didn't play together all that much either.

How about instead of giving your HMO about just your line why don't you rate the lines yourself?

 

[BM67]

Here are some stats that should at least in part give some indication of how "clutch" some goalies were. This is NHL stats, so Tretiak and Foster are missing. It also doesn't include this years stats for the few active goalies.

Note about the Cups totals, Fuhr and Esposito have their names on the Cup for a year that neither played a playoff game.


Player - RSGP - POGP - RSW - POW - RSW% - POW% - Dif - RSGAA - POGAA - Dif - Cups
Belfour - 797 _ 148 _ 401 _ 82 _ .590 _ .573 _ -.017 _ 2.45 _ 2.17 _ -.28
Vernon - 781 _ 138 _ 385 _ 77 _ .575 _ .579 _ +.004 _ 2.98 _ 2.68 _ -.30 _ 2
Bower - 552 _ 74 _ 250 _ 35 _ .551 _ .507 _ -.044 _ 2.51 _ 2.47 _ -.04 _ 4
Cheevers - 418 _ 88 _ 230 _ 53 _ .658 _ .609 _ -.059 _ 2.89 _ 2.69 _ -.20 _ 2
Hasek - 581 _ 97 _ 288 _ 53 _ .589 _ .576 _ -.013 _ 2.23 _ 2.03 _ -.20 _ 1
Lindbergh - 157 _ 23 _ 87 _ 12 _ .626 _ .545 _ -.81 _ 3.30 _ 3.11 _ -.19 _ 0
Parent - 608 _ 71 _ 271 _ 38 _ .562 _ .535 _ -.027 _ 2.55 _ 2.43 _ -.12 _ 2
Worters - 484 _ 11 _ 171 _ 3 _ .440 _ .364 _ -.076 _ 2.27 _ 2.09 _ -.18 _ 0
Durnan - 383 _ 45 _ 208 _ 27 _ .626 _ .600 _ -.026 _ 2.36 _ 2.07 _ -.29 _ 2
Hainsworth - 465 _ 52 _ 246 _ 22 _ .609 _ .471 _ -.138 _ 1.93 _ 1.93 _ 0 _ 2
Sawchuck - 972 _ 106 _ 446 _ 54 _ .560 _ .529 _ -.031 _ 2.51 _ 2.54 _ +.03 _ 4
Fuhr - 868 _ 150 _ 403 _ 92 _ .567 _ .648 _ +.081 _ 3.38 _ 2.92 _ -.46 _ 4/5
Plante - 837 _ 112 _ 435 _ 71 _ .614 _ .664 _ +.050 _ 2.38 _ 2.14 _ -.24 _ 6
Thompson - 553 _ 44 _ 284 _ 20 _ .581 _ .455 _ -.126 _ 2.08 _ 1.88 _ -.20 _ 1
Hall - 906 _ 115 _ 407 _ 49 _ .545 _ .430 _ -.115 _ 2.49 _ 2.78 _ +.29 _ 1
Brodeur - 665 _ 139 _ 365 _ 83 _ .634 _ .597 _ -.037 _ 2.19 _ 1.84 _ -.35 _ 3
Esposito - 886 _ 99 _ 423 _ 45 _ .566 _ .459 _ -.107 _ 2.92 _ 3.07 _ +.15 _ 0/1
Richter - 666 _ 76 _ 301 _ 41 _ .534 _ .554 _ +.020 _ 2.89 _ 2.68 _ -.21 _ 1
Roy - 1029 _ 247 _ 551 _ 151 _ .618 _ .616 _ +.002 _ 2.54 _ 2.30 _ -.24 _ 4
Smith - 680 _ 132 _ 305 _ 88 _ .556 _ .710 _ +.154 _ 3.17 _ 2.73 _ -.44 _ 4
Dryden - 397 _ 112 _ 258 _ 80 _ .758 _ .714 _ -.044 _ 2.24 _ 2.40 _ +.16 _ 6
Broda - 629 _ 101 _ 302 _ 60 _ .562 _ .606 _ +.044 _ 2.53 _ 1.98 _ -.55 _ 5

Player - GAADif
1. Broda -.55
2. Fuhr -.46
3. Smith -.44
4. Brodeur -.35
5. Vernon -.30
6. Durnan -.29
7. Belfour -.28
8. Plante -.24
8. Roy -.24
10. Richter -.21
11. Cheevers -.20
11. Hasek -.20
11. Thompson -.20
14. Lindbergh -.19
15. Worters -.18
16. Parent -12
17. Bower -.04
18. Hainsworth 0
19. Sawchuk +.03
20. Esposito +.15
21. Dryden +.16
22. Hall +.29

Player - W%Dif
1. Smith +.154
2. Fuhr +.081
3. Plante +.050
4. Broda +.044
5. Richter +.020
6. Vernon +.004
7. Roy +.002
8. Hasek -.013
9. Belfour -.017
10. Durnan -.026
11. Parent -.027
12. Sawchuk -.031
13. Brodeur -.037
14. Bower -.044
14. Dryden -.044
16. Cheevers -.059
17. Worters -.076
18. Lindbergh -.081
19. Esposito -.107
20. Hall -.115
21. Thompson -.126
22. Hainsworth -.138

 

[ObeySteve]

Someone should do the stats on how many of the people drafted are from each actual NHL team, based on which team each player was with the longest in their career.

Of course, only 8 Flyers (out of the 189 actually shown on the first post of the thread) got drafted by my count, but that's expected from their short history.

Bobby Clarke
Bernie Parent
Mark Howe
Eric Lindros
Bill Barber
Rick MacLeish
John Leclair
Mark Recchi

 

[BM67]

Someone should do the stats on how many of the people drafted are from each actual NHL team, based on which team each player was with the longest in their career.

Of course, only 8 Flyers (out of the 189 actually shown on the first post of the thread) got drafted by my count, but that's expected from their short history.

Bobby Clarke
Bernie Parent
Mark Howe
Eric Lindros
Bill Barber
Rick MacLeish
John Leclair
Mark Recchi

Lindbergh, Propp, Desjardins, Tocchet and Schultz.

 

[Leaf Lander]

it would be cool to do a new draft

not somany players would be as out of mind as they were i nthe first draft

we could compare A team to team B



re-draft!

who's in ?

 

[John Flyers Fan]

Sorry it took so long, but here is my analysis of the teams originally selected.

I broke it down by position and then I did an overall ranking.

Goalies
1. Penguins - Roy & Smith
2. Jets - Brodeur & Espo
3. Leafs - Sawchuk & Fuhr
4. Nordiques - Hasek & Lindbergh
5. Rockies - Plante & Thompson
6. Bruins - Hainsworth & Durnan
7. Devils - Dryden & Broda
8. Flyers - Bower & Cheevers
9. Red Wings - Belfour & Vernon
10. Kings - Tretiak & Richter
11. Millionaires - Parent & Worters
12. Canadiens - Hall & Foster

Defense
1. Kings
2. Red Wings
3. Flyers
4. Leafs
5. Canadians
6. Penguins
7. Bruins
8. Millionaires
9. Jets
10. Rockies
11. Devils
12. Nordiques

Offense
1. Flyers
2. Millionaires
3. Jets
4. Red Wings
5. Kings
6. Nordiques
7. Canadiens
8. Devils
9. Bruins
10. Penguins
11. Leafs
12. Rockies

Overall
1. Flyers
2. Wings
3. Kings
4. Jets
5. Millionaires
6. Canadiens
7. Penguins
8. Leafs
9. Bruins
10. Nordiques
11. Devils
12. Rockies

Brief comments on each team:

Philadelphia Flyers
Brian Propp - Wayne Gretzky - Jaromir Jagr
Michel Goulet - Joe Malone - Sergei Makarov
Bill Barber - Sergei Fedorov - Steve Larmer
Clark Gillies - Bill Cowley - Bryan Hextall Sr.

Denis Potvin - Nicklas Lidstrom
Brad Park - Eric Desjardins
Kevin Lowe - Ivan "Ching" Johnson

Johnny Bower - Gerry Cheevers

The best group of forwards, without a doubt. Tremendous scorers in Gretzky, Jagr, Makarov and Malone, supplemented with a very good group of two way players.

Three great defenseman in Potvin, Lidstrom and Park, with three very good ones to play with.

Don't have the ultra-elite goalie, but both Bower & Cheevers were great "money" goalies, with Stanley Cup rings.


Detroit Red Wings:
Kent Nilsson - Stan Mikita - Phil Esposito
Brendan Shanahan - Joe Sakic - Cam Neely
Paul Kariya - Adam Oates - Teemu Selanne
Keith Tkachuk - Jacques Lemaire - Gary Roberts

Bobby Orr - Pierre Pilote
Valeri Vasiliev- Guy Lapointe
Vladimir Konstantinov - Gary Suter

Eddie Belfour - Mike Vernon

A very good group of forwards, with 4 nasty power forwards. I'm not as high on Kariya as most are.

Orr leads a great defensive corps.

Belfour is an underrated goalie, and Vernon has 2 Cup wins.

Los Angeles Kings:
Tim Kerr - Marcel Dionne - Pavel Bure
Markus Naslund - Steve Yzerman - Denis Savard
Bill Cook - Joe Thornton - Ziggy Palffy
Dave Taylor - John Madden - Rick Tocchet

Eddie Shore - Brian Leetch
Chris Pronger - Scott Niedermayer
Adam Foote - Ed Jovanovski

Vladislav Tretiak - Mike Richter

For my money the best group of defenseman in the draft.

Tretiak and Richter are both over rated IMO, but still very very good.

Madden shouldn't have been selected, and Kerr was one demensional. Dionne is at best the 3 best center on the team. Savard, Tocchet and taylor were nice picks.

Winnipeg Jets:
Luc Robitaille - Bobby Clarke - Guy LaFleur
Vladimir Krutov - Igor Larionov - Yvon Cournoyer
Todd Bertuzzi - Butch Goring - Terry O'Reilly
Rick MacLeish - Alex Delvecchio - Mark Recchi

Larry Robinson - Zdeno Chara
Kjell Samuelsson - Borje Salming
Marcel Pronovost - Steve Smith

Martin Brodeur - Tony Esposito

Great forwards and goaltending. Only Goring is a questionable pick, but hard to argue with 4 Cup wins.

The defense has some major question marks. Samuelsson and Smith should not have been selected. At the time of the draft Chara was a somewhat questionable pick, although with his continued development he is becoming one of the top defenseman in the league.

Vancouver Millionaires:
Cyclone Taylor - Mario Lemieux - Brett Hull
Harry Watson - Bryan Trottier - Mats Naslund
Roy Conacher - Sid Abel - Alexander Mogilny
Herbie Lewis - Bernie Federko - Punch Broadbent

Chris Chelios - Mark Howe
Tom Johnson - Jacques Laperriere
Allan Stanley - Kenny Reardon

Bernie Parent - Roy Worters


Montreal Canadiens:
Frank Mahovlich - Peter Stastny - Rod Gilbert
Aurel Joliat - Dale Hawerchuk - Lanny McDonald
Pete Mahovlich - Elmer Lach - Ken Hodge
Syd Howe - Guy Carbonneau - Hakan Loob

Raymond Bourque - Rod Langway
Serge Savard - Red Horner
Joe Hall - Leo Boivin

Glenn Hall - Jimmy Foster

Pittsburgh Penguins:
John Leclair - Pat Lafontaine - Mike Bossy
Peter Bondra - Boris Mikhailov - Jari Kurri
Ilya Kovalchuk - Jason Allison - Alexei Kovalev
Dino Ciccarelli - Dany Heatley - Claude Lemieux

Viacheslav Fetisov - Sandis Ozolinsh
Ulf Samuelson - Sergei Zubov
Sergei Gonchar - Rob Blake

Patrick Roy - Billy Smith

Toronto Maple Leafs:
Busher Jackson - Ron Francis - Maurice Richard
Wendel Clark - Doug Gilmour - Mats Sundin
Dave Andreychuk - Eric Lindros - Rick Vaive
Joe Nieuwendyk - Ken Linesman - Joel Otto

Al MacInnis - Scott Stevens
Doug Wilson - Randy Carlysle
Carl Brewer - Derian Hatcher

Terry Sawchuck - Grant Fuhr

Boston Bruins:
Ted Lindsay - Mike Modano - Howie Morenz
Woody Dumart - Milt Schmidt - Bobby Bauer
Bob Gainey - Jean Ratelle - Bernie Geoffrion
Brian Sutter - Newsy LaLonde - Bob Probert

Doug Harvey - Butch Bouchard
Tim Horton - Bill Barilko
Rob Ramage - Marty McSorley

George Hainsworth - Bill Durnan

Quebec Nordiques:
Valeri Kharlamov - Gilbert Perreault - Aleksander Maltsev
Doug Bentley - Max Bentley - Bill Mosienko
Kevin Stevens - Peter Forsberg - Gordie Howe
Esa Tikkanen - Vladimir Petrov - Claude Provost

Dit Clapper - King Clancey
Vladimir Lutchenko - Babe Pratt
Al Iafrate - Jan Suchy

Dominik Hasek - Pelle Lindbergh

New Jersey Devils:
Bobby Hull - Mark Messier - Charlie Conacher
Dickie Moore - Nels Stewart - Andy Bathgate
John Tonelli - Ted Kennedy - Vaclav Nedomansky
Babe Siebert - Dave Keon - Rick Middleton

Red Kelly - Earl Seibert
Bill Gadsby - Lionel Conacher
Alexei Kasatonov - Sprague Cleghorn

Ken Dryden - Turk Broda

Colorado Rockies:
Toe Blake - Jean Beliveau - Henri Richard
Johhny Bucyk - Darryl Sittler - Mike Gartner
Glenn Anderson - Syl Apps - Joe Mullen
Dave "The Hammer" Schultz - Dale Hunter - Dave "Tiger" Williams

Paul Coffey - Larry Murphy
Harry Howell - Phil Houlsey
Bill Quackenbush - Ebbie Goodfellow

Jacques Plante - Cecil "Tiny" Thompson









I will finish my comments shortly

 

[John Flyers Fan]

I would be interested in doing another draft.

If we do another draft we should change it up slightly. Come up with some selections how we may improve it, or a number of teams etc.

 

[Leaf Lander]

Offense
1. Flyers
2. Millionaires
3. Jets
4. Red Wings
5. Kings
6. Nordiques
7. Canadiens
8. Devils
9. Bruins
10. Penguins
11. Leafs
12. Rockies


john r u serious my teams the highest scoring team in the draft

 

[John Flyers Fan]

Offense
1. Flyers
2. Millionaires
3. Jets
4. Red Wings
5. Kings
6. Nordiques
7. Canadiens
8. Devils
9. Bruins
10. Penguins
11. Leafs
12. Rockies


john r u serious my teams the highest scoring team in the draft

Busher Jackson - Ron Francis - Maurice Richard
Wendel Clark - Doug Gilmour - Mats Sundin
Dave Andreychuk - Eric Lindros - Rick Vaive
Joe Nieuwendyk - Ken Linesman - Joel Otto

IMO Vaive, Otto, Linseman, and Clark NEVER should have been selected.

Francis is a nice player, but not a dominant one.

Actually Sundin should be considered your #1 center.

Lindros if he stayed healthy would have finished one of the 5-10 best players in NHL history. Unfortunately he didn't, and won't even be a Hall of Famer

 

[Leaf Lander]

Busher Jackson - Ron Francis - Maurice Richard
Wendel Clark - Doug Gilmour - Mats Sundin
Dave Andreychuk - Eric Lindros - Rick Vaive
Joe Nieuwendyk - Ken Linesman - Joel Otto

IMO Vaive, Otto, Linseman, and Clark NEVER should have been selected.

Francis is a nice player, but not a dominant one.

Actually Sundin should be considered your #1 center.

Lindros if he stayed healthy would have finished one of the 5-10 best players in NHL history. Unfortunately he didn't, and won't even be a Hall of Famer

I was building a team

rick vaive have over 440 career goals he was mr hockey in toronto in the 80's

linseman is a nice little rat of player with over 900 career points

I m picking the the team I like what they could do and I would play them agains t any otherteam and I think we would win 9 times out of 10

 

[John Flyers Fan]

I was building a team
I m picking the the team I like what they could do and I would play them agains t any otherteam and I think we would win 9 times out of 10

Brian Propp - Wayne Gretzky - Jaromir Jagr
Michel Goulet - Joe Malone - Sergei Makarov
Bill Barber - Sergei Fedorov - Steve Larmer
Clark Gillies - Bill Cowley - Bryan Hextall Sr.

Denis Potvin - Nicklas Lidstrom
Brad Park - Eric Desjardins
Kevin Lowe - Ivan "Ching" Johnson

Johnny Bower - Gerry Cheevers

vs.

Busher Jackson - Ron Francis - Maurice Richard
Wendel Clark - Doug Gilmour - Mats Sundin
Dave Andreychuk - Eric Lindros - Rick Vaive
Joe Nieuwendyk - Ken Linesman - Joel Otto

Al MacInnis - Scott Stevens
Doug Wilson - Randy Carlysle
Carl Brewer - Derian Hatcher

Terry Sawchuck - Grant Fuhr


No chance does your team win 9 out or 10. You'd be lucky to win more than 3.

First off, Lindros would only play in 6 of the games. Clark would also miss a few games.

The only edge you have is in net, but it's not big enough to make up for the differences on offense and the blueline.

 

[The G Man]

I think the Flyers have the best team.

 

[John Flyers Fan]

I think the Flyers have the best team.

I always knew you were a bright guy.

 

[Spitfire11]

I would be interested in doing another draft.

count me in too

 

[Dr Love]

I would be interested in doing another draft.

If we do another draft we should change it up slightly. Come up with some selections how we may improve it, or a number of teams etc.

I would be interested in doing another one as well. I didn't plan my team out as well as I should have. A couple more teams wouldn't hurt (say, 12).

 

[GB]

I'd be up for another draft as well.

 

[BM67]

Defense
11. Devils

New Jersey Devils:
Red Kelly - Earl Seibert
Bill Gadsby - Lionel Conacher
Alexei Kasatonov - Sprague Cleghorn

I will finish my comments shortly

Well come on, I'm still waiting to see how you can rate a defense with 6 HoFers on it so low.

 

[BM67]

I would be interested in doing another one as well. I didn't plan my team out as well as I should have. A couple more teams wouldn't hurt (say, 12).

Since the last draft had 12 teams...

How much do we want to change it up? Just the number of teams? Have some kind of rule like draft only one player from each NHL team, i.e. take Potvin or Bossy as your Isles pick and then take Trottier as a Penguin?

I'm guessing we don't want to do a WHA draft.

 

[Frightened Inmate #2]

If there would be another draft, I would be up for it, but some of the people here would have to get on a bit quicker, or at least have some lists drawn up. Waiting three - five days just made me angry.

 

[Dr Love]

Since the last draft had 12 teams...

D-oh, I thought it had ten! Well, 15 would suffice then.

 

[Spitfire11]

D-oh, I thought it had ten! Well, 15 would suffice then.

I think it would be better with fewer teams because with 12 we still had 2/3 people drop midway through the draft. If there's going to be 15 we have to make sure all 15 will stick till the end.

 

[Leaf Lander]

I think it would be better with fewer teams because with 12 we still had 2/3 people drop midway through the draft. If there's going to be 15 we have to make sure all 15 will stick till the end.

well those gms were dropped

 

[BM67]

OK new draft.

Teams:10-14. 12 worked ok and there are certainly enough good players undrafted for a couple more teams, but smaller might be better.

Changes: one extra round for drafting a coach. Need to decide on player/coachs and if Toe Blake can play and coach on different teams or not.

Option: allow trading. I'd like to see what someone might offer for the 1st pick, but otherwise this would probably be just an unneeded complication.

Any other ideas?

Who wants in? I think 7 of the 12 from the first draft have said they would be interested.

 

[Gee Wally]

OK new draft.

Teams:10-14. 12 worked ok and there are certainly enough good players undrafted for a couple more teams, but smaller might be better.

Changes: one extra round for drafting a coach. Need to decide on player/coachs and if Toe Blake can play and coach on different teams or not.

Option: allow trading. I'd like to see what someone might offer for the 1st pick, but otherwise this would probably be just an unneeded complication.

Any other ideas?

Who wants in? I think 7 of the 12 from the first draft have said they would be interested.

let me know if you guys want this one closed and start a new thread ?

 

[Laperriere22*]

OK new draft.

Teams:10-14. 12 worked ok and there are certainly enough good players undrafted for a couple more teams, but smaller might be better.

Changes: one extra round for drafting a coach. Need to decide on player/coachs and if Toe Blake can play and coach on different teams or not.

Option: allow trading. I'd like to see what someone might offer for the 1st pick, but otherwise this would probably be just an unneeded complication.

Any other ideas?

Who wants in? I think 7 of the 12 from the first draft have said they would be interested.

I would be interested in picking up a team from the start instead of finishing off MacDaddy's Bruins.

Personally, I would like to see some sort of cap placed on the # of HOFers each team can have. Would force everybody to have to go off the radar screen with some picks. Say something like maybe 10 HOFers out of the 20 man roster is the cap (that includes locks like Patrick Roy too). The reason I say that is because I think it would make the teams more realistic in terms of depth and it would also get some rare publicity to some good players that never got talked about.