You know you're losing an argument when you come up with arguments like this:
"Gartner can score 33 goals and place 33rd in the league, and do it every year, and this defines his legacy..."
How so? First you say that top-20s don't do anything for you because they're not that special, then Gartner is so great because you always know you're going to get 30 goals from him, never mind that 30 goals is not good for 30th in the league in some seasons in the 80s.
Pick one. You can't have both.
You know you're losing an argument when:
- You fail to address glaring inconsistencies in your arguments after they are pointed out.
- You sweep your counterpart's best points under the rug rather than acknowledging them at all,
- You begin to use the same tactics that you accuse your counterpart of, only far more elementary and blatant, and,
- You tell your counterpart that they're losing the argument.
As I've stated many times before, the top-20 thing does absolutely nothing for me. Not just for O6 players. For pre-O6. For post-expansion. I'm impressed that Watson finished top 10 in goals twice. I'm very impressed that he had 26 goals in 60 games in 48-49, and finished tied for second. I'm impressed that he had four 20-goal seasons from 1947-48 to 1953-54. But top 20 finishes don't do anything to convince me that a player is worthy of being selected in the ATD. From the sheer perspective of this is the greatest game in the world, and the NHL is its greatest league, a top 20 finish is fantastic. Multiple top 20 finishes are even better.
Look at you! You're impressed with the fact that it was 20 goals, not the fact that it was 9th, or 12th, or 13th in the league. For christ's sake, the schedule jumped from 50 to 60 to 70 games during his career. That alone makes statements like this meaningless and without context.
For the third time, a top-20 in and of itself isn't a great accomplishment, but looking at top-20s over a career does a great job of separating the "fad" scorers from those who had real staying power.
I've pointed out the Lanny McDonald/Markus Naslund comparison. I've shown you how Dean Prentice, Pat Lafontaine, and Henri Richard have just two top-10s but numerous top-20s.
You have ignored these points. It's typical GBC ATD arguing. When someone calls you on something, shows you to be incorrect, or makes a point you should either acknowledge, address or refute, you sweep it under the rug. For example, you're being called on blowing statistical smoke when you accuse others who are merely putting accomplishments into context, of doing just that, and instead of replying to this you just get quiet for a while.
But from an ATD perspective, what impresses me the most is top 10 finishes in goals, assists and points, or doing things that are truly remarkable. What Gartner did was truly remarkable. I don't view what
....
I don't think Watson's consistency approaches that of Gartner's. Gartner's consistency got him in the HHOF on the first ballot. It earned him a place in the THN Top 100. There are very, very few players, ever, whose consistency rivals that of Gartner.
That is only correct if you get over-obsessed with that flat total he reached for 15 straight seasons. Gartner's nine top-20 goal-scoring seasons (the only seasons really worth talking about) is an achievement shared by 46 players in history, about half of which played at least 8 seasons post-expansion.
But since you don't like top-20 seasons, let's look at top-10s. Gartner has five of them - along with 72 other players in history.
It's great, but it's not THAT special. The way you talk about Gartner's consistency, you'd expect us to believe that two or three other players have done what he's done.
As for nine 40-goal seasons, you guys are right: it would be incredibly hard for players who played O6 to reach that level, and impossible for those who played pre-O6 to do it. (Bobby Hull did it eight times. Richard played in the toughest scoring part of the O6.) But look at Gartner's company. Gretzky. Lemieux. Dionne. Bossy. Look who didn't do it, guys like Kurri and Brett Hull.
You still don't get it. Watson's consistency isn't
as special as Gartner's but the same verbiage applies to what he did in his time:
As for seven top-20 seasons in Watson's time, look at Watson's company. Bill Mosienko. Doug Bentley, Max Bentley. Ted Kennedy. Syl Apps. Look who didn't do it, guys like Milt Schmidt, Gaye Stewart and Sid Smith.