All-Time Draft #11, Part 3

[Spitfire11]

Detroit will add some grit and a big playoff producer in 2-time Cup winner, LW Craig Simpson

According to hockey reference he's also the NHL's all-time leader in shooting %

 

[VanIslander]

Avs draft John MacLean

 

[VanIslander]

Warriors listpick Battleship Leduc
Bustards listpick Kevin Dineen

527 - ChampagneWishes - Killarney Country Bear Jamboree - ON THE CLOCK

528 - Hedberg - Victoria Salmon Kings
529 - shawnmullin & pappyline - Trail Smoke Eaters
530 - camperjr - Edmonton Oilers
531 - Leopold Stotch - Boston Braves
532 - arrbez - Inglewood Jacks
533 - arrbez - Inglewood Jacks

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

The KCBJ are more than willing to overlook the somewhat fey appearance of the following player because of his shifty skating and puckhandling, two-way play, versatility, and above all his fierce competitive spirit, a key cog of the Silver Seven dynasty...

...Harry "Rat" Westwick

Not a guy I'd want to see coming my way in a dark alley.

 

[Kyle McMahon]

The KCBJ are more than willing to overlook the somewhat fey appearance of the following player because of his shifty skating and puckhandling, two-way play, versatility, and above all his fierce competitive spirit, a key cog of the Silver Seven dynasty...

...Harry "Rat" Westwick

Not a guy I'd want to see coming my way in a dark alley.

You stole my next pick. I was hoping to have both "Rats" on my team, having already drafted Linseman of course. Rats!

 

[VanIslander]

...a key cog of the Silver Seven dynasty...

didn't play when Ottawa first won the Stanley Cup and then defended it for the first time, but indeed contributed greatly to subsequent cups

Not a guy I'd want to see coming my way in a dark alley.

Are you scared of Mike Meyers?

Harvey Pulford and Alf Smith, NOW those two Original Silver Seven muscular guys look scary.

 

[seventieslord]

C/LW Jack Adams

I'll take Adams over almost any other 4th liner. He can provide all the toughness, corner work, and leadership that you would want from your 4th line, but he also had his time as an elite offensive player.

- 5'9", 175 lbs
- Member of the HHOF
- Stanley Cup (1918, 1927)
- Stanley Cup Finalist (1921, 1922)
- PCHA 1st All-Star Team (1921, 1922)
- Top-10 in his league in goals seven times (10th-1920-PCHA, 5th-1921-PCHA, 1st-1922-PCHA, 4th-1923-NHL, 6th-1924-NHL, 5th-1925-NHL, 7th-1926-NHL)
- Top-10 in his league in assists five times (9th-1920-PCHA, 2nd-1921-PCHA, 6th-1922-PCHA, 7th-1923-NHL, 9th-1925-NHL)
- Top-10 in his league in points seven times (10th-PCHA-1920, 3rd-PCHA-1921, 1st-PCHA-1922, 4th-NHL-1923, 7th-NHL-1924, 6th-NHL-1925, 5th-NHL-1926)
- In 1922, his 26 goals in the PCHA were considerably more than any one else, the next best were HHOFers Foyston, Fredrickson and MacKay, who had 16, 15, & 14.
- Top-3 in playoff scoring twice: 3rd in 1921 with 5-1-6, and 2nd in 1922 with 6-1-7.
- 135 goals & 189 points, 468 PIMs in 243 games
- 14 goals & 16 points, 37 PIMs in 26 playoff games

...The next year, he won the scoring title in the PCHL.

Adams returned East for the 1922-23 season, joining the Toronto St. Pats for four years before finishing his skating days with Ottawa in 1926-27 where he ended as he had begun, winning a Stanley Cup... loud, brash, and pugnacious, first as a player and then an executive.

...He played in two Stanley Cup series for Vancouver and in that against Toronto in 1922, he was the star, scoring 6 goals in 5 games...

...in his first two years with the St. Pats he had Babe Dye and Reg Noble on his wings...he did not rate with Dye as a scorer but he set up a lot of goals for this right winger...

As a player, Jack was a nuisance to opposing teams and was very crafty in the way he wove through their defenses. He was tough and he got into fights on a regular basis.

A raw, talented center who played top-level hockey in Toronto, Vancouver, and Ottawa over 10 years. He was known as a great digger and a fiery leader.

One game in 1919 speaks volumes about his burning desire to win. In the late stages of the tilt, many oaks like harry Mummery, *** *******, and Rusty Crawford were in particularly rough shape. Mummery was the first one sent hobbling off the ice, followed quickly by *******, who was taken away on a stretcher. As for big Crawford, he was whacked across the forehead by Newsy Lalonde. Goalie Hap Holmes lost a handful of teeth. Adams' head was cut up in a flurry of bodychecks, crosschecks, and high sticks. despite it all, the pudgy pivot played till the end, dashing up and down the boards with blood dripping over his eyes and ears.

...his last year in the NHL as a player was 1926-27, and although he wasn't used on the top line, he was lauded for his guts, brains, and leadership skills. The Senators took the cup and Adams took early retirement.

Adams had an excellent 1921 playoff, starting with a convincing two-game win over Seattle:

The Millionaires rubbed it in by also taking the second game played in Seattle 6-2, winnng the round 13-2. ******, Adams, and ******* were the stars.

He followed this up with two goals in the five-game final against Ottawa.

He was even better in 1922. Adams scored the insurance goal to take the PCHA championship:

After Jack Adams scored to give Vancouver a two-goal margin on the round, the Millionaires lay back and set up a defense that Seattle could not penetrate.

...then had a huge part in games 1, 2, and 3 of the cup final:

Adams got three goals as the downed the St. Pats 4-3.

Adams scored the only Vancouver goal in a 2-1 OT loss, then in game 3:

Adams and Hugh Lehman were the stars for the Millionaires as they shut out the St. Pats 3-0.

Toronto laid an egg in game 4, then in game 5:

Although Jack Adams played a great game and scored his sixth goal of the series, Dye improved on this by scoring four goals to bring his total to nine.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Are you scared of Mike Meyers?

Harvey Pulford and Alf Smith, NOW those two Original Silver Seven muscular guys look scary.

Westwick's scary in a different way. Like, Tim Curry scary.

You stole my next pick. I was hoping to have both "Rats" on my team, having already drafted Linseman of course. Rats!

I'm a bit of a fink that way.

 

[seventieslord]

Steelers select RW Marian Hossa.

I know that's a rise of over 100 picks, but Jesus Christ, it's about time. What does this guy have to do to show he's a GREAT all-time player? He has an outside shot at putting together a HHOF career if he keeps up his level of play and stays on good teams that go deep.

I praised the Martin St. Louis pick a while back, and it was a great pick, but aside from St. Louis' superb season, Hossa has always been better than him, IMO.

We need a 4th line RW and if he was still available at our next pick we may have had to take him just out of principle.

You stole my next pick. I was hoping to have both "Rats" on my team, having already drafted Linseman of course. Rats!

With our nineteen selection, the 512th overall in this year All-Time Draft, the Detroit Falcons are very please to select Center Herbert William O'Connor

Stanley Cup Champion (1944, 1946)
Stanley Cup Finalist (1947, 1950)
Hart Memorial Trophy (1948)
Lady Byng Memorial Trophy (1948)
Second All-Star Team Centre (1948)
Played in NHL All-Star Game (1949)
Team Captain (1949-1950)
Inducted into the Hockey Hall of Fame (1988)

Top-10 Scoring (2nd, 9th)
Top-10 Goalscoring (9th)
Top-10 Assist (2nd, 3rd, 4th, 9th)
*0.78 Point per game in the regular season*
Top-10 Playoff Scoring (3rd, 5th, 10th, 10th)
Top-10 Playoff Goalscoring (4th, 6th, 8th)
Top-10 Playoff Assist (5th, 6th, 7th, 8th)
*0.68 Point per game in the playoffs*

Calder Nomination (2nd)
Hart Nomination (1st)
Lady Bing Nomination (1st, 2nd, 4th, 4th)

- O'connor was named Canada Atlhlete of the year in 1948.

What are you going to do with Buddy? I had no idea you'd be after a center.

The Twins select a steady eddie blueliner who can handle more minutes when Samuelsson, Suter and/or Pronger are in the box

What changed your mind on him? I thought last draft you said he was a completely nondescript player who'd be completely forgotten by now if not for old Buffalo fans.

For the record, I always liked him as the writers of The Hockey Compendiums are high on him. His adjusted +/- was frequently in the league leaders and for a guy who scored few points, that's excellent.

Not saying you're not allowed to learn more and change your mind on a guy, but just wondering what did it for you.

 

[EagleBelfour]

What are you going to do with Buddy? I had no idea you'd be after a center.

I just think he was too good to pass up. I didn't have time to research a lot this past day, but what I knew is that O'Connor was just ''too good to pass him up''. He was a great playmaker and a great team player. He will be my 13th forward and will play in the regular season. I know the 6thD and 4thRW I'll select will be as good if not better in 50 picks than if I pick him now by reputation (I'll have time to research my next selection), but someone like O'Connor won't be around anymore.

- Rat Westwick is a marvelous pick. From what I gathered from last draft, he won't give you a lot offensively, but he was one hell of a competitor and a great PK'er. Anyone who put Rat Westwick on his 4th line will have a competitive edge. Why would I take Al Secord at 421 or John Ferguson at 427 when I can get Rat Westwick at 527?

 

[God Bless Canada]

Dallas Smith was No. 3 on our hit list for this pick. Bill Hajt was No. 6. (Obviously, No.'s 2, 4 and 5 are still out there, and Steve Smith was No. 1). James Patrick's also a great pick for this point in the draft.

Hajt is non-descript. And I mean that in a good way. He's a big, rangy defenceman who isn't flashy, who brings minimal contributions offensively, and who isn't physical. But he's a rock in his own zone. There's an old adage I'm a big believer in: you know a defenceman has played a great game when you don't notice him. Hajt's a player who fits that description very well.

Hossa's a terrific pick. Could somebody please explain to me how Mr. Inconsistency/Mr. Apathy/Mr. Non-factor (Kovalev) gets picked ahead of a guy like Hossa, who not only brings great offensive instincts, but takes good care of his own zone, and plays a good, but not overwhelming, physical game?

Buddy O'Connor's a great pick at this point. But in this draft, he just didn't fit our needs for the bottom two lines. He was a bit of a late bloomer, and he never fully recovered from a car accident the year after he won the Hart Trophy. (Although he was still the Rangers top scorer that year).

One of these days, I'm going to get Thomas Steen on my team. His all-round game makes him such a solid addition to a fourth line.

 

[EagleBelfour]

Hossa's a terrific pick. Could somebody please explain to me how Mr. Inconsistency/Mr. Apathy/Mr. Non-factor (Kovalev) gets picked ahead of a guy like Hossa, who not only brings great offensive instincts, but takes good care of his own zone, and plays a good, but not overwhelming, physical game?

Buddy O'Connor's a great pick at this point. But in this draft, he just didn't fit our needs for the bottom two lines. He was a bit of a late bloomer, and he never fully recovered from a car accident the year after he won the Hart Trophy. (Although he was still the Rangers top scorer that year).

Hossa is a stellar selection, I just never think about him, but I would gladly take him as a low-end 2nd liner or an offensive third line. He should be selected somewhere in the late 300's.

You're right on O'Connor. Perhaps not good enough offensively to play on a offensive top-2 line, perhaps not good enough defensively to play on a defensive 3rd line. However, that's what I like about this selection: he's the perfect 13th forward (Although in a 28-team draft he SHOULD be a regular). He can replace any center on my lineup and not be out of place.

 

[Hedberg]

Victoria selects D Art Duncan

 

[arrbez]

Why would I take Al Secord at 421 or John Ferguson at 427 when I can get Rat Westwick at 527?

Because a small, shifty player like Westwick and a big, bruising player like Secord or Ferguson fill completely different needs?

 

[EagleBelfour]

Victoria selects D Art Duncan

Extremely good selection. I had the urge to select Duncan to play alongside Lloyd Cook like BM67 had done last draft, probably would have took him if he had been there at 36X. Cook and Duncan played together for 7 season in the PCHA. Just for you, I'll sell your selection to the people
----------------------------
defenseman Art Duncan

Stanley Cup Finalist (1921, 1922)
Art Ross Trophy (1924) *PCHA*
Maurice Richard Trophy (1924) *PCHA*
Norris Trophy (1919*, 1924*) *PCHA*
PCHA First All-Star Team (1920, 1922, 1924)
PCHA Second All-Star Team (1919, 1923)

PCHA Stats
Top-10 Scoring (1st, 9th, 10th)
Top-10 Goalscoring (1st, 8th)
Top-10 Assist (1st, 3rd, 4th, 10th)
Top-10 Penalty Minutes (9th)

Top-5 Scoring among defenseman (1st, 1st, 2nd, 2nd, 4th, 4th)
Top-5 Goalscoring among defenseman (1st, 2nd, 2nd, 3rd, 3rd, 4th)
Top-5 Assist among defenseman (1st, 1st, 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th)
Top-5 Penalty Minutes among defenseman (2nd, 3rd)

 

[God Bless Canada]

Hossa is a stellar selection, I just never think about him, but I would gladly take him as a low-end 2nd liner or an offensive third line. He should be selected somewhere in the late 300's.

You're right on O'Connor. Perhaps not good enough offensively to play on a offensive top-2 line, perhaps not good enough defensively to play on a defensive 3rd line. However, that's what I like about this selection: he's the perfect 13th forward (Although in a 28-team draft he SHOULD be a regular). He can replace any center on my lineup and not be out of place.

Hossa's a classic example of what happens when a smart, gifted player is willing to work hard. Excerpts of his 1997 bio in THN's Draft Preview referred to him as a one-dimensional player who shied away from physical contact. In fact, scouts claimed they saw him deliberately avoid getting hit. Many said they wouldn't pick him. Following the 97 draft, the Ottawa Sun blasted the Sens for picking the soft Hossa over local product Matt Zultek, who had the size and speed that makes scouts drool, but lacked the other important pieces of his game.

Within three years, Ottawa fans knew that what they had in Hossa was a budding two-way star who wasn't afraid of physical contact at all.

There are still a couple scoring RWs out there better than Hossa. But he's good enough for a third scoring line, or even a two-way line or a moderately physical presence on the fourth line.

 

[EagleBelfour]

Because a small, shifty player like Westwick and a big, bruising player like Secord or Ferguson fill completely different needs?

Westwick was as tough as Secord and Ferguson. Secord was a better offensive player, Ferguson was the better fighter, but Westwick was the better competitor and beat both of them easily in term of playoffs prowess. When big games are on the line, I'll take Westwick over those two in any situation. Sorry to dish on your pick (I'll assume you selected Secord), they were just example I could of named 5-6 players in the same mold. It's not that Secord/Ferguson are bad picks, is that Westwick is an excellent selection and a stellar 4th liner.

 

[arrbez]

Westwick was as tough as Secord and Ferguson. Secord was a better offensive player, Ferguson was the better fighter, but Westwick was the better competitor and beat both of them easily in term of playoffs prowess. When big games are on the line, I'll take Westwick over those two in any situation. Sorry to dish on your pick (I'll assume you selected Secord), they were just example I could of named 5-6 players in the same mold. It's not that Secord/Ferguson are bad picks, is that Westwick is an excellent selection and a stellar 4th liner.

Tough is great, but it's not the same as tough and physically imposing. For instance, there's a difference between Cam Neely tough and Doug Gilmour tough.

My point was simply that it would make more sense to compare Westwick to a pesky two-way player than to a power forward or enforcer.

 

[EagleBelfour]

Tough is great, but it's not the same as tough and physically imposing. For instance, there's a difference between Cam Neely tough and Doug Gilmour tough.

My point was simply that it would make more sense to compare Westwick to a pesky two-way player than to a power forward or enforcer.

I understand, but in my opinion, the difference between John Ferguson and Rat Westwick is like comparing Chris Chelios and Scott Stevens. Stevens might have been the more punishing hitter but that's beside the point: there's no situation or reason to select Scott Stevens ahead of Chris Chelios. That's my humble opinion.

 

[arrbez]

I understand, but in my opinion, the difference between John Ferguson and Rat Westwick is like comparing Chris Chelios and Scott Stevens. Stevens might have been the more punishing hitter but that's beside the point: there's no situation or reason to select Scott Stevens ahead of Chris Chelios. That's my humble opinion.

I see where you're coming from, I just think it's a little different for the 4th line where you're looking for guys in very specific roles to play 6 minutes a game or whatever.

 

[EagleBelfour]

I see where you're coming from, I just think it's a little different for the 4th line where you're looking for guys in very specific roles to play 6 minutes a game or whatever.

Fair enough, I'm not here to be negative about the selection of others. The main point his: Rat Westwick is a very good selection and a premium 4th liner that could be taken 100-150 pick earlier.

 

[God Bless Canada]

My biggest concern with Ferguson and Secord would be their skating, and whether they would have the hockey sense to overcome that. I'm not saying you need to be a great skater to succeed in the ATD. George Armstrong would be, at best, a below average skater in an ATD. But his top-notch hockey sense, instincts and anticipation, combined with his size and work ethic, more than overcome his skating deficiencies. (I have Chief Armstrong at No. 2 on my list for two-way line RWs).

But Secord and Ferguson's skating was, well, plodding, and their hockey sense wasn't great, either. Ferguson doesn't do it for me. I want all my forwards to be able to contribute offensively, and Ferguson just isn't capable of that. Decent skills. But outside of one year playing alongside Beliveau after expansion, there's nothing to give me reason to think that Ferguson could score at this level. As for Secord, love the combination of goal-scoring ability and toughness, but will he be able to keep up in his own zone with, say, Rocket Richard? Secord might be best served as a space-opener on a second or third scoring line.

 

[arrbez]

My biggest concern with Ferguson and Secord would be their skating, and whether they would have the hockey sense to overcome that. I'm not saying you need to be a great skater to succeed in the ATD. George Armstrong would be, at best, a below average skater in an ATD. But his top-notch hockey sense, instincts and anticipation, combined with his size and work ethic, more than overcome his skating deficiencies. (I have Chief Armstrong at No. 2 on my list for two-way line RWs).

But Secord and Ferguson's skating was, well, plodding, and their hockey sense wasn't great, either. Ferguson doesn't do it for me. I want all my forwards to be able to contribute offensively, and Ferguson just isn't capable of that. Decent skills. But outside of one year playing alongside Beliveau after expansion, there's nothing to give me reason to think that Ferguson could score at this level. As for Secord, love the combination of goal-scoring ability and toughness, but will he be able to keep up in his own zone with, say, Rocket Richard? Secord might be best served as a space-opener on a second or third scoring line.

Secord will be used on my 4th, but will see time with Makarov and his old linemate Denis Savard on my second line when a physical presence is needed.

 

[seventieslord]

LW Harry P. Watson

A big player who was able to play tough without taking a lot of penalties. Like Adams, he gives you everything you need on a 4th line but doesn't hurt you offensively at all. Well, he'll hurt YOU offensively, just not us.

- 6'1". 207 lbs
- Member of the HHOF
- Stanley Cup (1943, 1947, 1948, 1949, 1951)
- Top-10 in goals twice (2nd, 9th)
- Had five other seasons of 18-22 goals, placing in the top-20 each time
- Top-10 in points once (7th) (also close a few more times)
- Top-10 in playoff goals three times (2nd, 4th, 8th)
- Top-10 in playoff points twice (6th, 7th)
- Only 150 PIM in 809 Games

Throughout his career, Watson was best known for his offensive ability, which he combined with a quiet, even temperament on the ice to complement his strong leadership. A left wing who was born in Saskatoon, Saskatchewan, in 1923, Harry Percival Watson played 14 seasons in the NHL on four different teams from 1941 to 1954.

...The next season he went to the Detroit Red Wings, where he was an instant hit. In his first year there his 13 goals helped the Red Wings finish first overall in the regular season. In the playoffs he was dominant as the Wings beat Boston in four straight games to win Stanley Cup.

...in Toronto he quickly teamed up with center Syl Apps and tough guy **** ******** to form a scoring trio feared around the league. This troika helped the Leafs win the Stanley Cup four times during Watson's nine seasons at Maple Leaf Gardens, giving him a total of five Cup wins in his career.

As an individual, Watson's best year was with the Leafs in 1948-49. He led the club in scoring with 26 goals and, unbelievably, didn't record a single penalty minute throughout the season. He also scored the eventual Stanley Cup-winning goal that year en route to a 4-0 swamp of his old team, the Red Wings. Leafs fans also remember Watson as the one who assisted on Bill Barilko's legendary overtime Cup-winning goal in 1951...

Overall, Watson played in 809 regular-season games in the NHL, scoring 236 career goals to go with 207 assists for 443 career points. In addition to his five Stanley Cup wins, Watson's teams succeeded in making the playoffs in nine of the 14 years he played. He also played in seven All-Star games, usually as a member of the Cup-winning team.

Watson was a big and brawny left wing with an easy going manner. He was quite aggressive and could fight, but never pushed things too far and consequently did not get a great many penalties... he had a very deceptive style of skating and at times appeared to be hardly moving and then would break like a flash.

He did not play in the 1951 semifinal due to injurues, but was prominent in the final against the Canadiens.

The little-known Watson went on to help the Leafs win four Stanley Cups by adding some toughness and scoring on the wing. The rugged native of Saskatoon was one of the NHL's most feared fighters, although he did not get into many tussles since the opposition usually avoided him. For more than nine seasons Watson was a steadying influence on the Leafs.

He patrolled the wing with a strong skating stride, had a hard shot and was a good finisher for a playmaker like Apps.

Watson was tough along the boards and could handle the rough stuff with ease. In the third game of the 1948 semifinal series, burly Boston Bruins defenseman ****** ********* went after Watson and learned to regret it as the normally mild-mannered winger dropped his gloves and pummelled ********* fast and furiously, smashing his nose with one of his punches...

...his all-round game made him one of the first "power forwards" in the NHL.

...a mild-mannered LW with the ability to be a great scorer and the strength of a prize fighter...

From 1952 to 1955, Harry's career was unspectacular but efficient. What the Leafs did achieve in those years was to a great extent the result of Harry's hard work and leadership.

********, Barilko, Mortson, Watson - with those guys on the prowl, other teams learned to keep their heads up.

Harry Watson could duke it out pretty well but only if he was mad, so opposing coaches always told their teams not to wake him up.

Watson was a physical LW who played the game aggressively but within the rules. He was a deceptively fast skater who was used to check the opposition's top scorers, but had a good scoring touch of his own.

In the 1948 playoffs, Watson opened the scoring in game 1, a 5-3 win, then scored the winner in game 3, a 2-0 game. Watson was outstanding in the cup-clinching game:

Watson and Kennedy were outstanding, both getting two goals.

And turned the tides in game 2 in the 1949 semis:

Boston led at the end of the second period... Watson sank the Bruins in the final, getting two nice goals.

Watson also scored the OT winner to put the Leafs ahead 3-1 in the 1951 finals, then...

Watson flattened a rolling puck and passed to ****** who went behind the Canadiens net and passed out to Barilko. The big blond defenseman drilled it home at 2:53 to win the game and the Cup.

 

[EagleBelfour]

Damn, with all those books you own it makes some good bio 70's!