All-Time Draft #11, Part 3

[Spitfire11]

I thought about taking Toe Blake with my last pick, but decided he wasn't the best coach for my team as I don't really have a high flying squad. I think Coach Tommy Ivan is probably the best coach available for the team I'm building.

He took over the Wings, and in his second season he coached them to a league championship and would hold it for 6 straight seasons. The Wings finished in 1st 6 times and 2nd once in the 7 seasons he coached there. I know the President's trophy isn't seen as much of an accomplishment these days, but when there's only 6 teams in the league, and everyone plays the same 5 opponents 14 times a year, a league championship is an impressive accomplishment imo, not to mention 6 straight. He also won 3 Stanley Cups coaching the Wings and made 2 more appearances in the Finals. He also had to deal with GM xxxx xxxxx constantly interfering and breathing down his neck, which ended up being the reason he decided to quit and go the Chicago.


"Our Coach Tommy Ivan was the guy who started the checking line routine. Ivan started "the box" for killing penalties in your own end. He did a great job. If we wouldn't have lost him, we might have won a few more Stanley Cups. I think we would have won if he stayed." -Marty Pavelich

 

[God Bless Canada]

Nice pick. I strongly considered him over Morrow, part because Ulf is one of my all-time favorites and I've love to have him anytime, and part because I love what he brings to the table. But, I decided that Morrow's a better fit(he's also another one of my all-time favorites). Still, very nice selection.

I'm not an Ulfie fan. He was a dirty player who preferred to have his teammates fight his battles for him. And that's what bugs me more than anything else. Gary Suter was a dirty player, but he'd fight when challenged. Every player is dirty to a certain extent. But Ulf was a turtle. That's what annoyed me about him.

It's too bad, though, because people don't remember what an effective player he could be. In the late 80s and the first half of the 90s, he was one of the best defensive defencemen in the game, the ultimate "hate to play against him, want him on my team" defenceman.

 

[seventieslord]

The Twins are unanimous that the next best pick on the blueline for our team, especially in a division with some big strong forwards who need to face some big, strong nastiness, is a rearguard no one likes but everyone admits has been effective in defensive defenseman Ulf Samuelsson.

I don't like the guy... but I admit he has been effective.

 

[God Bless Canada]

I thought about taking Toe Blake with my last pick, but decided he wasn't the best coach for my team as I don't really have a high flying squad. I think Coach Tommy Ivan is probably the best coach available for the team I'm building.

He took over the Wings, and in his second season he coached them to a league championship and would hold it for 6 straight seasons. The Wings finished in 1st 6 times and 2nd once in the 7 seasons he coached there. I know the President's trophy isn't seen as much of an accomplishment these days, but when there's only 6 teams in the league, and everyone plays the same 5 opponents 14 times a year, a league championship is an impressive accomplishment imo, not to mention 6 straight. He also won 3 Stanley Cups coaching the Wings and made 2 more appearances in the Finals. He also had to deal with GM xxxx xxxxx constantly interfering and breathing down his neck, which ended up being the reason he decided to quit and go the Chicago.


"Our Coach Tommy Ivan was the guy who started the checking line routine. Ivan started "the box" for killing penalties in your own end. He did a great job. If we wouldn't have lost him, we might have won a few more Stanley Cups. I think we would have won if he stayed." -Marty Pavelich

I think Tommy Ivan might be the coach best-suited to the draft. We had him in ATD 8, and we were ready to take him in this draft if Blake was gone.

When you think about the top coaches of the O6 era - Blake, Day and others - the words "calm" and "level-headed" usually don't jump to your mind. That was the beauty of Tommy Ivan. He was calm. He's probably the best "player's coach" of all-time. (Sorry to Slats). Yet he brought that great mind for the game.

He can coach an offensive team, he can coach a defensive team. He handles the players so well. Most coaches need a certain type of team to be effective. You have to find the right coach for your team. paper can attest to that. His choice for coach in the last draft might have cost him the draft. Tommy Ivan is the one elite coach in the draft who can coach any type of team.

 

[The Mighty Duck Man]

Found this George Hainsworth quote, and thought I'd post it so I don't lose it(at a school computer):

"I'm sorry I can't put on a show like some of the other goaltenders," Hainsworth said in 1931, when he was at the peak of his game. "I can't look excited because I'm not. I can't shout at other players because that's not my style. I can't dive on easy shots and make them look hard."

"I guess all I can do is stop pucks"

That would explain greatly why he isn't talked about a lot(I've been looking all over the net with little luck). This would also explain why some books might suggest that "all he had to do was show up". He was effective, but very calm, cool, collective, and most of all, unspectacular, by the sounds of it. Reminds me of a current goalie(there's probably a couple others as well) that doesn't get enough credit because he doesn't make spectacular saves, and simply, like Hainsworth put it, stops the puck.

I also read an excerpt of a Canadiens book(can't remember the title, but it's a 100 anniversary one, I believe) that listed him as the foundation of those great Habs teams of the late 20s and early 30s(along with Howie Morenz, of course). Not Gardiner, not Mantha, not even Joliat. Morenz and Hainsworth. Pretty impressive stuff to be given that much credit for those teams.

 

[VanIslander]

Avs draft Bobby Holik

 

[God Bless Canada]

Did Jungo send a list? If he didn't, we're done for the evening.

 

[vancityluongo]

Did Jungo send a list? If he didn't, we're done for the evening.

He's usually pretty good about sending them, so hopefully whoever has it logs on soon. I may be the only one, but to me this draft feels as though it's either been going brutally slow, or at times, staggeringly fast. But times between picks are very inconsistent.

 

[arrbez]

Avs draft Bobby Holik

Bobby Holik doesn't have that many eyebrows

 

[Jungosi]

Wacken drafts Eric Nesterenko

 

[Nalyd Psycho]

I'm super panicky about my next pick....

 

[Nalyd Psycho]

I'll take that as a compliment. So we ticked you off by taking Goring, and we ticked pappy off by taking Brewer. (Although pappy even said he knew it was coming).

Dang, raleh, we should have taken Eddie Litzenberger.

Trying to recreate my team from last time?

 

[seventieslord]

Found this George Hainsworth quote, and thought I'd post it so I don't lose it(at a school computer):

That would explain greatly why he isn't talked about a lot(I've been looking all over the net with little luck). This would also explain why some books might suggest that "all he had to do was show up". He was effective, but very calm, cool, collective, and most of all, unspectacular, by the sounds of it. Reminds me of a current goalie(there's probably a couple others as well) that doesn't get enough credit because he doesn't make spectacular saves, and simply, like Hainsworth put it, stops the puck.

I also read an excerpt of a Canadiens book(can't remember the title, but it's a 100 anniversary one, I believe) that listed him as the foundation of those great Habs teams of the late 20s and early 30s(along with Howie Morenz, of course). Not Gardiner, not Mantha, not even Joliat. Morenz and Hainsworth. Pretty impressive stuff to be given that much credit for those teams.

He is talked about a lot. Not that talking about hockey history and attempting to rank old players with modern ones on an even playing field is a "mainstream" endeavor, but most mainstream attempts rate him highly (THN top-100, Without Fear, the book you are referring to, anything that looks at Vezinas without realizing context and how they used to be "won") - much too highly, IMO.

For example, go look for two contemporaries who I am sure are better - Roy Worters and Tiny Thompson. You'll find just as little on them. It's just the way it is with older players. Hainsworth, in comparison, doesn't get too little fanfare - he gets too much.

He is what he is. you can't take away the cups, the one potential smythe performance, and the three good regular seasons, two of which were great, as well as the longevity beyond those years (not as a top-2 goalie but usually top-5 up till age 41)

And I knew about his "relaxed" style; I have a great long writeup about it in a book from the 1940s (thanks, Spitfire11 for the recommendation, I bought all three of those old titles that your library has). Based on everything else I knew, I see it as a symptom of the teams he was playing for. Your quotes tell me what I've suspected for a year - There is really no evidence that Hainsworth did anything that a different, average, goalie couldn't have done given the same opportunity.

I would not fault him for not making an easy save look hard - why do that and risk allowing a goal which at the time constituted 65% of the average team's offense? It is not his fault that he had few difficult saves to make, and fewer saves overall in comparison to the other goalies. But that is almost certainly the case, based on the information available to us. And that should not be overlooked.

At at the same time, it's doubtful that guys like Thompson and Worters were diving around and making easy saves look hard. Worters' reputation as a great goalie who always gave his poor teams a chance to win, is well-earned. If his teams only allowed mainly easy shots that he made look hard, then they wouldn't be bad teams, now, would they? But we know they were.

There are other goalies who the same claims could be made about, that all they had to do was show up - Jacques Plante, Ken Dryden, Martin Brodeur, Clint Benedict, to name a few - but they all did enough to stand out individually, to build their longterm legacies.

Did you notice that dreakmur guy who poked his head in here a couple of times? At the Leafs boards he's trying to construct pre-1931 all-star teams. I've been helping him out where I can. Based on stats, hart voting, anecdotes from the Trail, and the defense corps of the different teams, we've agreed that his play was worth a 2nd team berth in 1928 and 1929. That's it. (in 1927 it went to ****** and Benedict, 1928 and 1929 it was Worters/Hainsworth) Take it for what you will. And I am sure you won't take it for much. But I assure you we are attempting to be as objective as we can. Hansworth's legacy gets a lot of mileage out of those three good regular seasons (two of which were great) - too much.

Believe me, I really do feel guilty in a strange way - I have no interest in trashing players at this stage of the game, but my main interest at these boards is to truly get down to the truth about how good all these players were, and when I feel I'm onto something I want to hammer it home. Your turn to pour the kool-aid

Wacken drafts Eric Nesterenko

Dang.

That's a perfect 4th liner right there. 3rd liner, even.

 

[John Flyers Fan]

While we have some nice defenseman that can move the puck and provide offense, we lack a defenseman that will put fear into a PK group and goaltender. We are very pleased to rectify that issue by selecting - D - Reed Larson.

 

[DoMakc]

Kilekenny selects Reed Larson, D

- Larson is one of only three defensemen in NHL history to record at least nine straight seasons with 50 or more points. His nine successive 50-point campaigns came from 1977-78 through 1985-86, joining Paul Coffey (15) and Phil Housley (11) in this select group.

- Larson posted five consecutive 20-goal seasons from 1979-80 through 1983-84. Among NHL defensemen, only Bobby Orr (seven) ever put together a longer stretch of 20-goal performances

- Served as Red Wings' captain 1980-82

He was a good skater, moved the puck well and had quite a shot

I faced a lot of shots, but no shooter fired the puck harder than Reed Larson," said goalie *** ***, who dealt with Larson as an opponent and in practice as a Detroit teammate. "No matter what anyone says, Bobby Hull never shot the puck as hard as Reed did

Reed Larson's hockey sense was uncanny, as he could read plays develop better than most players. He was a top offensive defenseman throughout the early 1980s, thanks largely to his effective shot. He would score many goals in his career, and many of his assists were a result of rebounds or deflections from his booming point shot.

 

[EagleBelfour]

Ouf! My second option at coach was selected, Tommy Ivan, and I was scared a certain Flyers fan would take my first option.

The Detroit Falcons are please to select one of the most intelligent, level headed, inspirational and innovative coach of All-Time. A Detroit team that look like no other before, deserve a special coach.

 

[EagleBelfour]

With our fourteen selection the 359th overall pick, the Detroit Falcons are please to select Monsieur Fred Shero as our head coach

Stanley Cup Winner (1974, 1975)
Stanley Cup Finalist (1976, 1979)
Jack Adams (1974)
Lester Patrick Trophy (1980)
Flyers Hall of Fame (1990)

- Fred Shero was the first winner of the Jack Adams Trophy
- Fred Shero was an innovator. He was the first to hire an assistant coach, to install playing systems, study films and conduct morning skates
- Shero of every major Flyers' coaching record, including years coached (7), wins (308), winning percentage (.642), and playoff wins (48).
- In a 1999 Philadelphia Daily News poll, Shero was selected as the city’s greatest professional coach/manager, beating out legends such as Connie Mack, Dick Vermeil, Greasy Neale, Billy Cunningham, Dallas Green, and Alex Hannum.

Shero's Quotes:

"When you have bacon and eggs for breakfast, the chicken makes a contribution, but the pig makes a commitment."

''Success is not the result of spontaneous combustion. You must first set yourself on fire.''

''Some people dream of success, while others wake up and work hard at it.''

''Success is failing nine times and getting up 10.''

''Win today, walk together forever.''

1) Never go offside on a three on two or two on one.

2) Never go backwards in your own end except on a powerplay.

3) Never throw a puck out blindly from behind your opponent's net.

4) Never pass diagonally across ice in your own end unless 100 percent certain.

5) Wings on wings in neutral zone—unless intercepting a pass.

6) Second man goes all the way in for a rebound.

7) Defense with puck at opponents' blueline—look at each teammate before shooting.

8) Wing in front of opponents' net must face puck and lean on stick.

9) Puck carrier over center with no room and no one to pass to must shoot puck in.

10) No forward must ever turn his back on the puck.

11) No player must be more than two zones away from puck.

12) Never be outnumbered in defensive zone.

13) On delayed penalty, puck carrier must look for extra man.

14) Be alert to time left on opponent's penalty.

 

[camperjr]

Can Somebody take a list for my next two picks?

 

[camperjr]

Just skipp my next two picks, I'll make them up when I get home tonight.

 

[Hedberg]

Victoria selects RW Pat Verbeek

1999 Stanley Cup Champion

Verbeek led the Devils into their first playoff berth in 1987-88 with a club-record 46 goals. The team reached the Wales Conference finals before losing to the Boston Bruins. Verbeek recorded four goals and eight assists along the way.

After the 1988-89 season, the Devils traded him to the Hartford Whalers. He made an immediate impact on the club. In his first season, he led the team in goal scoring and in his second term was named team MVP. 1991 also marked his All-Star Game debut. The following season, Verbeek was named the Whalers captain.

On March 23, 1995, he was traded to the New York Rangers for their quest of a second straight Stanley Cup. Injuries in the 1995-96 campaign prevented him from establishing personal bests. In 1996, he signed on with the Dallas Stars. With Dallas, he passed the 1,000-game mark and, more importantly, helped the team win the Stanley Cup.

Prior to the 1999-2000 season, he signed with the Detroit Red Wings. In Detroit, he passed the 1,000-point mark and moved into the top 25 in career goal scoring before returning to Dallas for his final NHL season in 2001-02.

On the international stage, Verbeek represented Cananda at the 1983 World Junior Championship, was a member of Canada's 1989 World Championship team and was a member of its World Cup team in 1996.

 

[John Flyers Fan]

Shero's Quotes:

"When you have bacon and eggs for breakfast, the chicken makes a contribution, but the pig makes a commitment."

One of my favorite quotes of all-time.

 

[seventieslord]

Dang, I was just saying in a PM to my co-GM that Verbeek is the best possible 4th line RW out there. Not that he's inadequate as a 2nd liner. We were just aiming high.

 

[hfboardsuser]

Dang, I was just saying in a PM to my co-GM that Verbeek is the best possible 4th line RW out there. Not that he's inadequate as a 2nd liner. We were just aiming high.

I don't think I'll draft him since I want to go in a different direction on my fourth line, but there's a pretty similar player out there who always seems to go low in this thing. The only major wrinkle is mediocre playoffs from 30 onwards... well, that, and people plain old hate his guts.

 

[arrbez]

1. SeanMullin and Pappyline are up for another 5 hours or so
2. CamperJr has asked to be skipped
3. Leopold Stotch
4. ME ME ME
5. ME ME ME
6. Reds4Life
7. CaperJR has asked to be skipped
8. SeanMullin and Pappyline

 

[shawnmullin]

We have a couple of things in mind, but the way coaches are going right now I decided we should get one of the best while he's still an option.

Our bench boss is a man who has been to the Cup finals more than anyone in history. pappy's coach when he won ATD9, the great Coach Dick Irvin Sr.