Player Discussion: All purpose: Zach Werenski thread.

[majormajor]

At this point Z is what he is defensively, the idea he's good defensively is funny. He's never been good defensively, very average in reality. He doesn't have enough grit and effort in his game to be truly good. He also shies from contact which limits his ability to get out of his own zone. He's essentially a top offensive rover who creates most of his offense 5v5 and is a liability without a better defensive partner, which at the moment, this team does not have. From the looks of it too, he really needs to stop killing penalties.

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I thought you said he was the worst one on the team defensively? This one says he's average defensively?

These are purely rhetorical questions by the way. I buy that he's been average defensively.

 

[cbjthrowaway]

people on this board painting werenski as a gostisbehere type offensive defenseman absolutely do not know puck.

there are some things that simply aren't part of his game – he doesn't throw huge hits, he can be a bit too casual with the puck in 3v3 situations and he doesn't anticipate potential clears on the power play very well. but there's a lot more to defense than hitting, and a lot more to generating offense as a defenseman than running a power play.

despite that, he's quite good at both ends of the ice. he's one of the best stick defenders in the league. he's effective at carrying the puck on the rush and effective at creating chances in the o-zone. he's a legit top pairing guy and is the absolute last guy in this defensive core that people should be complaining about.

 

[Marioesque]

people on this board painting werenski as a gostisbehere type offensive defenseman absolutely do not know puck.

there are some things that simply aren't part of his game – he doesn't throw huge hits, he can be a bit too casual with the puck in 3v3 situations and he doesn't anticipate potential clears on the power play very well. but there's a lot more to defense than hitting, and a lot more to generating offense as a defenseman than running a power play.

despite that, he's quite good at both ends of the ice. he's one of the best stick defenders in the league. he's effective at carrying the puck on the rush and effective at creating chances in the o-zone. he's a legit top pairing guy and is the absolute last guy in this defensive core that people should be complaining about.

The only real complaint is that he plays so much PP and that's not really his fault but coaching issue.

 

[Napoli]

I thought you said he was the worst one on the team defensively? This one says he's average defensively?

These are purely rhetorical questions by the way. I buy that he's been average defensively.

I said he's the worst defensive "#1 dman" in the league and that still holds true.

people on this board painting werenski as a gostisbehere type offensive defenseman absolutely do not know puck.

there are some things that simply aren't part of his game – he doesn't throw huge hits, he can be a bit too casual with the puck in 3v3 situations and he doesn't anticipate potential clears on the power play very well. but there's a lot more to defense than hitting, and a lot more to generating offense as a defenseman than running a power play.

despite that, he's quite good at both ends of the ice. he's one of the best stick defenders in the league. he's effective at carrying the puck on the rush and effective at creating chances in the o-zone. he's a legit top pairing guy and is the absolute last guy in this defensive core that people should be complaining about.

No one is calling him the worst defensively player on the team, he's bang average and can't handle #1 minutes because the rest of the team is such ass. People act like he's a surefire #1 and he's just not that good defensively.

 

[majormajor]

I said he's the worst defensive "#1 dman" in the league and that still holds true.


No one is calling him the worst defensively player on the team, he's bang average and can't handle #1 minutes because the rest of the team is such ass. People act like he's a surefire #1 and he's just not that good defensively.

Yeah no. Many of the #1s aren't even "bang average" defensively.

 

[Napoli]

Yeah no. Many of the #1s aren't even "bang average" defensively.

If they can't play well in all situations, they're probably not a #1 defenseman. Someone has to play in that spot for every team, doesn't mean they should.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

If they can't play well in all situations, they're probably not a #1 defenseman. Someone has to play in that spot for every team, doesn't mean they should.

This begs the question how many #1 defensemen in the league. Some people will say there’s one for every team but you’ve already said here there may not be. So, how many, per your criteria?

 

[Napoli]

This begs the question how many #1 defensemen in the league. Some people will say there’s one for every team but you’ve already said here there may not be. So, how many, per your criteria?

There's probably 20 guys who everyone would agree on, maybe less. My point is that Z isn't well rounded enough to make up for the rest of this awful defense.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

There's probably 20 guys who everyone would agree on, maybe less. My point is that Z isn't well rounded enough to make up for the rest of this awful defense.

This makes it seem your beef is with the defensive roster but your posting has consistently bashed Werenski.

 

[Napoli]

This makes it seem your beef is with the defensive roster but your posting has consistently bashed Werenski.

That's fair and I can see why you think that.

For me, Z isn't good enough to carry the load. It's not really his fault, the whole d core generally isn't good. My "thing" is with all the posters that think Z is some great all around dman when really he's just the best dman on a very bad d core.

Add in the fact what he makes along with his d zone play and I find his whole game frustrating to watch for what he's getting paid.

Once again, that's more on Jarmo for giving him all that money and assembling an overall terrible d core.

 

[majormajor]

Werenski is currently a smidge behind Cale Makar for the league lead in 5v5 scoring rate for defensemen.

What a season he's having. He'd be right up there with the top few D in the league if he was any good on the PP.

 

[EspenK]

Interesting that he ranks second to only Hedman in first assists and he doesn't have Kuch, Stamkos & Point et al to pass to. Those stats are pretty impressive.

 

[majormajor]

Interesting that he ranks second to only Hedman in first assists and he doesn't have Kuch, Stamkos & Point et al to pass to. Those stats are pretty impressive.

He's third but your point is a good one.

 

[thebus88]

The offense has never actually been an issue with Werenski. His vision/passing is a bit limited, but, his shooting ability makes up for it. He’s also not a great skater.

Werenski has shown to be an absolute weapon on the PP (yet less impactful than Jones), but, some people now somehow think he’s a “problem”. Boqvist a better option?! The problem isn’t Werenski not being able to pass to a certain RH shooter, it’s the lack of adaptability and versatility of that guy.

The problem with Werenski has always been his inability to consistently make good decisions defensively, while also much of the time lacking the “intensity” or physical play you would like to see out of 1 of your “leaders” or “best players”. That’s still the case and the injuries have clearly not helped in this regard.

Will be interesting to see how Mateychuk-Werenski looks after a period of time. Again, I look at him as a “problem” the same way I look at Jenner as a problem. But, the defense (like the center position) still needs to be built correctly (aka different) in order for them to truly excel. IMO

 

[koteka]

He is 1 assist away from tying the team record for assists by defensemen.

 

[Xoggz22]

He is 1 assist away from tying the team record for assists by defensemen.


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Had he not missed 12 games he would likely have easily set the points record by a defenseman for the CBJ. He's had a hell of a year in my book given the challenges this team has/had.

 

[thebus88]

He is 1 assist away from tying the team record for assists by defensemen.


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All I want to do is add my 2c and say that points aren’t the same as they used to be years ago.

Spacek’s PP/PK TOI numbers are fascinating to look at. I remember being told that Wisniewski being given all that PP TOI, had no impact on him getting points. Ahh, the good ole days.

I genuinely wonder what people would pay to get Jones back. Jiricek+Laine+ what?

Werenski-Jones
Mateychuk-Severson

 

[CBJWerenski8]

All I want to do is add my 2c and say that points aren’t the same as they used to be years ago.

Spacek’s PP/PK TOI numbers are fascinating to look at. I remember being told that Wisniewski being given all that PP TOI, had no impact on him getting points. Ahh, the good ole days.

I genuinely wonder what people would pay to get Jones back. Jiricek+Laine+ what?

Werenski-Jones
Mateychuk-Severson

I'd give them Laine and something else but I'm not putting in Jiricek. Maybe they'd like Bean or Boqvist back.

RHD set up of Jones, Severson, and Jiricek sounds good to me.

As far as Z goes, he's had a great year. He may not be a shutdown type of D-man on a defensive core that definitely needs one. But he's far and away our best D and not the root of our problems. If the new GM decides to trade Jenner (which I doubt given ownerships attachment to him), I wouldn't blink twice at naming Z the captain.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

Z may be a better D for having played with Jones. I don't think his game is above reproach, but so many folks are so hung up on Zach's game that it kind of snowballs and the narrative becomes their truth. I dig him, I dig his game and I'm glad he's a Jacket. He made a decision to stay right after Jones made a decision not to.

So yeah I love Seth's game in a vacuum but I'm not throwing a bunch of assets into trying to re-acquire him. He essentially asked out right at a time when he could have chosen to be part of the team's core and leadership moving forward, and instead he opted not to work out an extension. So we lost a very good player - although not a drag his teammates in the fight kind of guy - but it was his choice. Not a guy I'm spending a whole lot of mental energy on.

 

[EspenK]

He's third but your point is a good one.

Who is 2nd? unless the whole chart didn't open it looks like 2nd to me.

 

[majormajor]

No interest in Jones.

His game has slipped while Werenski got better. And there's six more years left on Jones' contract after this year.

Who is 2nd? unless the whole chart didn't open it looks like 2nd to me.

Ekholm is 1st. Then Hedman, then Werenski.

 

[EspenK]

Ekholm is 1st. Then Hedman, then Werenski.

Don't see Ekholm on the list but I'll take your word. Anyway 3rd is impressive,

 

[Napoli]

As far as Z goes, he's had a great year. He may not be a shutdown type of D-man on a defensive core that definitely needs one. But he's far and away our best D and not the root of our problems. If the new GM decides to trade Jenner (which I doubt given ownerships attachment to him), I wouldn't blink twice at naming Z the captain.

He makes a lot low effort plays defensively that I think would set a bad precedent as a captain.

Z is great creating offense on his own but this team desperately needs an all around defenseman that can cover for him.

 

[Iron Balls McGinty]

He makes a lot low effort plays defensively that I think would set a bad precedent as a captain.

Z is great creating offense on his own but this team desperately needs an all around defenseman that can cover for him.

Well, Jarmo felt it wasn't important when he shipped of Savard and Gavrikov for a d corps full all offensive players. And their play is certainly offensive. He didn't want to pay Gavrikov but then he got conned into acquiring Provorov as a replacement for the money Gavrikov wanted and probably deserved. Getting Bean and Boqvist and relying on them heavily to become difference makers was the beginning of his downfall.

 

[NotWendell]

It's been a real treat to have him healthy for most of the season.