All Purpose PK Subban Discussion Thread

[Genesis76]

See this is the problem.

I was expecting to come here and read how Awesome PK is but instead I'm reading about how hes a polarising figure bla bla bla bla bla bla.

Like wtf.... P.K. Subban was a magnificient talent he came into the league at a very young age and dominated right away.

PK is the best D in the league period this shouldn't even be a debate any more.

 

[bdub24]

22 points in 21 games. All of the detractors can STFU

 

[Mass]

I don't think I'm being too much of homer to say he should be the Norris favorite as of now. Klingberg and Burns may have some points on him, but I honestly doubt either of them shoulder a defensive workload that he has, and thrive while doing it. I also doubt either of them has had to play with an Emelin level defenseman for most of the year. Could be wrong though.

 

[NSH615]

22 points in 21 games. All of the detractors can ****

I have not had much to say as of late. I think the only reason I pick his "mistakes" out over Josi/Ellis/Ekholm is because they almost always seem more visible. Seems like he has 10x the number of center ice giveaways and as the last man back usually it ends up as an odd man rush. My perception may be wrong on that, but that's just how it seems. If those mistakes were eliminated, he'd be completely unstoppable.

 

[glenngineer]

I have not had much to say as of late. I think the only reason I pick his "mistakes" out over Josi/Ellis/Ekholm is because they almost always seem more visible. Seems like he has 10x the number of center ice giveaways and as the last man back usually it ends up as an odd man rush. My perception may be wrong on that, but that's just how it seems. If those mistakes were eliminated, he'd be completely unstoppable.

On the goal that got called back for offsides, who made the mistake on that play? Just asking for a friend.

 

[NSH615]

On the goal that got called back for offsides, who made the mistake on that play? Just asking for a friend.

On which goal that was called back for offside? There have been a few.

 

[NSH615]

And to be fair, I'm not saying I would trade him or want him gone (last year I wanted the trade un-done). He is definitely finally growing on me.

 

[bdub24]

His style is high risk high reward. It couldn't be more opposite to what Trotz drilled into the team and the fans. It is jarring and foreign. Its a math issue. Do his risks outweigh his rewards?

 

[ThirdManIn]

I have not had much to say as of late. I think the only reason I pick his "mistakes" out over Josi/Ellis/Ekholm is because they almost always seem more visible. Seems like he has 10x the number of center ice giveaways and as the last man back usually it ends up as an odd man rush. My perception may be wrong on that, but that's just how it seems. If those mistakes were eliminated, he'd be completely unstoppable.

I've seen this said a number of times. If it were based on reality and not just a matter of perception you would expect Subban to have a ridiculously high number of turnovers in general relative to his teammates. Subban does lead the team in giveaways, but not by much. He has a grand total of nine more giveaways than Forsberg, who is second on the list, and Forsberg has played eleven fewer games. Looking at just defensemen, Subban has 17 more turnovers in 1 more game than Ekholm. That is definitely a substantial number of turnovers more than a player who has played merely one fewer game, but it still doesn't support the perception that Subban has 10 times as many neutral zone turnovers than anyone else. Even if all of Subban's turnovers have been in the neutral zone, one may have a difficult time supporting the idea that Ekholm, Josi, and Ellis all only have 5 neutral zone turnovers each.

 

[NSH615]

His style is high risk high reward. It couldn't be more opposite to what Trotz drilled into the team and the fans. It is jarring and foreign. Its a math issue. Do his risks outweigh his rewards?

And unfortunately, I think this may be what leads to the microscope from me

 

[bdub24]

And unfortunately, I think this may be what leads to the microscope from me

That is why you aren't alone. The problem is when people from MON read things on our boards, they are equating the controversy to what happened in their org. Every indicator we have tells us the coaches and players love having him as a team mate. The issue is that Preds hockey for its first 17 years had meant completely responsible shut down defense, and if you got some points out of them because they happened to have an ICBM for a shoulder, then they were a god here. Times have changed.

 

[glenngineer]

On which goal that was called back for offside? There have been a few.

The one last night. And I'll save you the trouble, it was Josi.

 

[Mortiest Morty]

The one last night. And I'll save you the trouble, it was Josi.

That was as bad as, and maybe worse than, anything Subban has done in his Preds career, but I didn't see much about it. I feel like that would not have been the case with Subban.

Anyway, factoring in that he's played with Emelin almost all year, started in the D zone far more than any other D-man on the team, faced the toughest competition, played with the lowest quality of teammates on average and he STILL leads the team in points, its been a pretty incredible season for him.

 

[Pred303]

whether subban is one's 'favorite' player or his 'least favorite', one has to admit that during the past 21 games he's been our most important and best player. maybe he wasn't the first 29 games (and personally i don't think he was), but when the team has needed someone to step up coinciding with the forsberg injury and the mini team slump right before that and subban is the one that has done that and provided the offense that we needed.

can he continue at this goal scoring pace? well probably not because almost all of his goals have been deflected off someone somehow and odds are that cann't continue at current pace, but that doesn't mean he isn't going to have a great goal and point year for us. last year one could have made the legitimate argument that he was our 2nd or even 3rd best overall defenseman. but not this year so far.

 

[NSH615]

That was as bad as, and maybe worse than, anything Subban has done in his Preds career, but I didn't see much about it. I feel like that would not have been the case with Subban.

The goal didn't count so I think that helped Josi's favor on that one.

 

[JustaFinnishGuy]

Subban was pretty bad in some of the first 29 matches and really good in some others.
Now he has only been great. Wasn't ready call him our best D-man at the end of December but through December and January, he's been so much better than the other D core that he is our best D-man.

Still, I think Forsberg is our best player.

 

[Bouboumaster]

Subban in Montreal was our best player (not named Carey Price) but above all else, he was able to stepping it a notch when it mattered the most.
He's a clutch. A clutch like we hadn't seen since Claude freaking Lemieux.

 

[Drake744]

Subban in Montreal was our best player (not named Carey Price) but above all else, he was able to stepping it a notch when it mattered the most.
He's a clutch. A clutch like we hadn't seen since Claude freaking Lemieux.

He was an absolute force in the playoffs last year and that's still nowhere near enough credit.

 

[LCPreds]

I think people also try to match players up 1 for 1 based on results alone without taking the entire picture into account.

Subban likely has more turnovers than Ek because he is likely handling the puck much more than Ek in dangerous situations.

Josi and Ellis don’t have as many d zone starts as Subban so are naturally not in danger as often so therefore any turnovers they have are less likely to stand out.

I haven’t looked recently but I also know Burns doesn’t match up with Subban in terms of d zone starts. Not sure about klingberg but I doubt he does either.

Subban is the best d in the league IMO. Why? Because he can generate offense with the best while sporting a high d zone start percentage. But he can also actually shut down the oppositions best players. You know, the main point of a d man.

 

[Genesis76]

I have not had much to say as of late. I think the only reason I pick his "mistakes" out over Josi/Ellis/Ekholm is because they almost always seem more visible. Seems like he has 10x the number of center ice giveaways and as the last man back usually it ends up as an odd man rush. My perception may be wrong on that, but that's just how it seems. If those mistakes were eliminated, he'd be completely unstoppable.

Ok theres people who are getting paid to track those stats, can you do us and your self a favor and look at them?

Because your perception is not on par with reality.

The only thing different with PK is that hes black.

Its probably your eyes the problem after all.

 

[pkshowban]

Turn over

Klingberg 59
Burns 95
Carlson 68
Doughty 54
Karlson 50
Hedman 46
Letang 70
Pietrangelo 22

Subban 52

A perfect player with 0 turn over doesnt exist...

 

[Mortiest Morty]

I haven’t looked recently but I also know Burns doesn’t match up with Subban in terms of d zone starts. Not sure about klingberg but I doubt he does either.

Klingberg D-Zone Start% - 31.39 (6th among Dallas D-men, 7th if you count Methot who has played only 16 games)
Subban is at 36.28%

 

[Drake744]

Ok theres people who are getting paid to track those stats, can you do us and your self a favor and look at them?

Because your perception is not on par with reality.

The only thing different with PK is that hes black.

Its probably your eyes the problem after all.

He did say that his perception may be wrong so he acknowledged that.

 

[Auger38]

I've been ghosting on this forum for a long time now, but decided to create an account just so I could post this link. Solid break down of the top 7 Norris candidates this season, with stats!

(Spoiler, Subban comes in at #2)

www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/ranking-7-contenders-norris-trophy/

 

[LCPreds]

I've been ghosting on this forum for a long time now, but decided to create an account just so I could post this link. Solid break down of the top 7 Norris candidates this season, with stats!

(Spoiler, Subban comes in at #2)

www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/ranking-7-contenders-norris-trophy/

Great read. Interesting that he may be underappreciated specifically because the Preds don't need him to play as many minutes as most of his competition. Fantastic top 4 = trophy kryptonite.