Indy: All-Purpose Non-WWE Discussion Thread -- Part 2 [NJPW G1 Special in San Francisco July 7]

[SeidoN]

damn Elgin won a title too

Gedo "how aboot some Tim Hortons eh?"

AND Jay White still has the US title. jesus.

 

[GKJ]

Did they announce G1?

Something to look forward to, I don't know what NJPW's deal is with AXS, but I have to think getting a bigger TV deal is on the table in North America having seen what WWE just did, and now they have their two biggest North American draws, and plus Jericho for however long they have him.

 

[SeidoN]

"Omega won the title on his 4th try and everyone was happy"

Vince: "Lesnar v Reigns at Summerslam it is!"

 

[Raymondo316]

I love Don's reaction he sounded like he was close to tears

 

[M.C.G. 31]

Imagine Okada goes after Jericho and the IC Title? I’d die

 

[GKJ]

Don sounded like he was going to pass out from marking so hard

 

[Guardian17]

 

[Senscore]

What an experience.

The whole Okada/Omega series has pushed the entire art form to new heights.

 

[Natey]

I was really into Okada/Omega for about 50 minutes. Then they lost me. The 900th V-Trigger might have been what did it.

I also hated how Omega went from not even being able to run to doing a picture perfect Phoenix Splash.

I'm sorry, but just no. It was a good match dragged down by trying to make it more epic than before. This was going to be good no matter what, they didn't need to throw off the storytelling. It was so good. Then the exhaustion part of the story was stop and go. Paused when they didn't need it. I understand "at last gasp effort" but that is like Omega's really hard strike. Digging deep down and finding that extra power. Not a f***ing Phoenix Splash.

****1/4.

Other notes;

Will Ospreay is a mad man. He's going to be special when he learns move placement and selling.

Taichi is f***ing hilarious. His laugh is amazing. And while Elgin is really f***ing good, for some reason I can't get into him ever since those texts were made public.

Matt Jackson is really good. People can't say he doesn't know selling or psychology.

Rey Mysterio looked great. The right team won.

Jericho / Naito far exceeded my expectations. Match of the night for me. Been a long time since I've said that about a Jericho match.

Juice Robinson is absolutely amazing and the crowd loves him. I wasn't a fan of the post match, but him and White should have a really good match.

 

[SeidoN]

****1/4.

 

[Natey]

That's being generous.

 

[SeidoN]

That's being generous.

I too enjoy being edgy from time to time

 

[Natey]

I too enjoy being edgy from time to time

Edgy because I don't agree with you? Next time we can add Reigns and 900 Superman punches. It'll really flesh out that "story."

Put it this way, my dad has been watching a decent amount of NJPW since Jericho came. He was enjoying himself yet again and then Main Event happened. His exact words "it was decent." In reality, it was better than that. It was great. But it was nowhere near their earlier matches. It was nowhere near Shibata/Okada. It was nowhere near Gargano/Ciampa. Nowhere near Hitman/Rocket.

 

[GKJ]

You can be exhausted and still do wild moves. Those two went an hour last year and it wasn’t enough to decide it. They also still have to do an entertaining match, of its half. They can’t lay around for a half hour.

If I had any complaint, it would actually be that they could’ve went longer.

 

[JackSlater]

I watched parts of Dominion, skipping the parts I didn't want to see (Young Bucks, Ospreay). A good show overall. Jericho Naito was fine, definitely not as good as the Jericho Omega match but not bad. Somewhat sloppy when in ring, good when it was a brawl, Jericho obviously great at theatrics and entertaining. I am glad that Jericho won (surprised that so many non-Japanese wrestlers now have titles) because it frees Naito from that belt and makes Jericho look more legitimate in the company. At least he avoided the Sting treatment. Okada and Omega was an apt continuation of their story. I prefer Okada to Omega but I can see that eventually Omega had to win. They kind of remind me of Kobashi and Misawa at this point where it is almost like they've reached the pinnacle of a certain kind of match. I am impressed with their endurance, but I definitely agree with Natey about selling fatigue and then popping up with huge moves executed flawlessly. You can't really have it both ways in any logical manner.

 

[Disclose]

yeah, to me its best match of the 4....

(4,2,1,3 in order)

Impressed by the Jericho win. fun match too.
Takahashi and Ospray was insane too.
fun card.

 

[GKJ]

He missed the Phoenix splash though, so it wasn’t executed flawlessly

 

[Natey]

You can be exhausted and still do wild moves. Those two went an hour last year and it wasn’t enough to decide it. They also still have to do an entertaining match, of its half. They can’t lay around for a half hour.

If I had any complaint, it would actually be that they could’ve went longer.

Sure you can. But not after you fall to flat on your face running because you're so gassed. Or you've punched like a little kid for 10 minutes.

I don't mind unleashing the fire and putting more oomph in a punch, a knee, or anything. Doing a Phoenix Splash or firing up for too long, I dislike.

Kenny, I'm sure could have dug deeper and hit 300 more V-Triggers.

I love them both. But this wasn't excellent, just great, in my opinion. And I'm entitled to that.

Ps. I thought Okada did it the right way. He'd dig deep, hit a big move, and never capitalize because he was so gassed.

 

[Natey]

He missed the Phoenix splash though, so it wasn’t executed flawlessly

That's clearly not what he meant. He meant it looked like someone who had been wrestling for 30 seconds did it. Not someone who had been wrestling 50.

Missing it was almost worse. He bounced back way too fast after missing it as well.

 

[GKJ]

Sure you can. But not after you fall to flat on your face running because you're so gassed. Or you've punched like a little kid for 10 minutes.

I don't mind unleashing the fire and putting more oomph in a punch, a knee, or anything. Doing a Phoenix Splash or firing up for too long, I dislike.

Kenny, I'm sure could have dug deeper and hit 300 more V-Triggers.

I love them both. But this wasn't excellent, just great, in my opinion. And I'm entitled to that.

Ps. I thought Okada did it the right way. He'd dig deep, hit a big move, and never capitalize because he was so gassed.

Okada also did like 600 dropkicks. That’s what they do instead of forever restholds that WWE would do to make a 6-minute match go 15 and feel like 30.

I’m confused why this is a problem. It’s a match that was to push both guys to their limits. Okada has been defending the title, it’s conceivable that he doesn’t have as much in the tank as Kenny. It was clear why he did a Phoenix Splash, it was because Ibushi told him too. It actually made less sense that he didn’t.

They just don’t sell as much in Japan, it was one thing people complained about when Nakamura came over, and then he started doing it and gets blamed for having a bad match at Wrestlemania.

 

[Shoalzie]

That was such a great way to cap off that series. The one-winged angel got him two falls and the rainmaker finally dried up. Loved the build to the third fall with the variety of moves Kenny used. In the end, it was his move that did it.

1. Dominion 60-minute draw
2. Dominion 2 out 3
3. WrestleKingdom
4. G1

The 60-minute draw stands up because it helped so much with the storytelling in this match. You can't have this latest match without the one last year.

Overall, fantastic show. Watched everything up until Kenny-Okada yesterday. Watched the title match this morning.

A lot of interesting directions they can go with Jericho, Naito, Okada, Bucks, Ibushi, Cody, Hiromu...I'd argue this was a better show than WK12. The Naito-Okada match was a mild disappointment...this show left you feeling something.

 

[GKJ]

Naito-Okada was only a disappointment in the sense that they didn’t have one of the 4 or 5 best matches anyone’s ever seen, since Okada set the bar so high.

 

[Natey]

Okada also did like 600 dropkicks. That’s what they do instead of forever restholds that WWE would do to make a 6-minute match go 15 and feel like 30.

I’m confused why this is a problem. It’s a match that was to push both guys to their limits. Okada has been defending the title, it’s conceivable that he doesn’t have as much in the tank as Kenny. It was clear why he did a Phoenix Splash, it was because Ibushi told him too. It actually made less sense that he didn’t.

They just don’t sell as much in Japan, it was one thing people complained about when Nakamura came over, and then he started doing it and gets blamed for having a bad match at Wrestlemania.

Have you ever played a non-stop sport like Rugby or even midfield in soccer? You don't go from falling running over to doing crazy flips. You don't go from running a 5000m run to sprinting a 100m run. It just doesn't make sense.

I also know there's less rest holds in NJPW. I've watched Japanese wrestling for a long time. The V-Trigger thing is a joke, in reality he should do them a lot (and Reigns should do the Superman Punch a lot). You should do your perfected moves more in reality.

My problem started with the Phoenix Splash and how fast he bounced back. Then I was already out of the immersion and picked apart every little thing.

Your opinion - it was one of the best.
My opinion - it was very good. Great even. But not perfect.

And I never complained about Nak. I liked his matches against Ziggler and Styles.

 

[Shoalzie]

The v-trigger and the high dropkick of Okada are setup moves...of course they're going to use them a lot. Okada's high dropkick is probably the best in wrestling...I pop for it every time.

There's a new Being The Elite episode out...

 

[Natey]

The v-trigger and the high dropkick of Okada are setup moves...of course they're going to use them a lot. Okada's high dropkick is probably the best in wrestling...I pop for it every time.

There's a new Being The Elite episode out...

Obviously. I wasn't really bothered by that until I was already out of the match and into thinking how much people make fun of Reigns for the same moves.

It was the falling over and then doing the splash and then bouncing back. I know it's a little thing, but that's the risk with art. It can kill something for you. Just like a movie making a bad decision and taking you out of it.

I love both guys. Shibata vs Okada is one of my all-time favourite matches.