All-purpose goaltending thread VII - all Hutch/Pav/Helle talk here [Warning in OP]

[potroaster]

It is one thing to let a guy with 26 games of NHL experience earn the starters job over a high paid veteran. Quite another to cut the veteran and hand the youngster the job in July.

He's our 5 mil dollar Budaj for the year I guess. Comrie is available If an injury ever happens. They had a chance was it 2 or 3 years ago to buy out Pav's contract and only pay him 1/3 of his existing contract.


Call it being stubborn or lack of insight, but those new seats could have been bought and paid for already.

 

[BostonBob]

Is there a clear cut # 1 Goalie right now or will both kids play until one steps up and takes the # 1 job ???? I wouldn't mind adding one of them to some of my Yahoo Fantasy Hockey teams but am wondering if I should wait a bit and see who becomes the bonafide # 1 Goalie or just grab the favourite right now. Any info will be appreciated.

 

[Ducky10]

Don't fear the youth.

 

[10Ducky10]

Maurice has stated that judging by the schedule in November, they will be using a rotation system almost for sure that month.

 

[NikoEhlers]

Good luck to Pavelec, I really hope he works out a deal with a club in KHL, Im pretty sure there is a club there willing to take a chance on him, they got the means to pay him and I think he could do pretty well there

 

[AlphaLackey]

For everyone questioning Hellebuyck because of his experience, I gotta ask you something.

All these other teams in the league seem to, on occasion, have no problem finding a miracle fluke goalie that puts together a 40-50 game run of mammoth quality. For once, Why Not Winnipeg? I know getting 15 good games out of the Dearly Departed Goatlender was kind of a miracle, but I mean a Hammond-esque or a Dubnyk-esque run of winning 40 of 45 games with superhuman luck and skill.

All these other teams can do it. Why not Winnipeg, huh? Just once. I'd take it.

It is one thing to let a guy with 26 games of NHL experience earn the starters job over a high paid veteran. Quite another to cut the veteran and hand the youngster the job in July.

Especially since there was a training camp, and the team management had numerous opportunities to see, in the here and now, what the two goalies were providing.

I find it fascinating how so many people throw around the work "experienced". Frankly, I'll take an inexperienced .918 goaltender over a very experienced .906 goaltender every time.

Exactly. Give me a good, young goalie who doesn't know just how good he can be, over an experienced goalies who knows full well how bad he sucks.

 

[AlphaLackey]

Is there a clear cut # 1 Goalie right now or will both kids play until one steps up and takes the # 1 job ???? I wouldn't mind adding one of them to some of my Yahoo Fantasy Hockey teams but am wondering if I should wait a bit and see who becomes the bonafide # 1 Goalie or just grab the favourite right now. Any info will be appreciated.

Expect a 1A - 1B system (especially with a rotation expected in a heavy November month) until one of them really grabs the brass ring.

 

[Eyeseeing]

Sure it will be bumpy not just goaltending either.
We are a young team I doubt we even come close to the playoffs, however I believe we turn the corner next year.
Pavs was one of many pieces holding us back.

 

[Andy6]

I find it fascinating how so many people throw around the work "experienced". Frankly, I'll take an inexperienced .918 goaltender over a very experienced .906 goaltender every time.

What's a ".918 goaltender"? Wasn't "Hutch" a ".940 goaltender" until he got a.bit more "experience" (or at least until other teams got a bit more experience of him)?

 

[Classic16]

Expect a 1A - 1B system (especially with a rotation expected in a heavy November month) until one of them really grabs the brass ring.

Based on final day interviews Im guessing Hutch has the #1 job. Helle will get every opportunity to succeed.

 

[Eyeseeing]

I'm excited to see both guys succeed.
A new chapter has begun so let's embrace the change.
Other than Lowry over Copp I am very happy with the roster this year.
It will change with injuries and I'm sure Dano and Copp will get their chances.
I think both Hutch and Helle will be treated well going by Maurice's comments.
Just one more domino to fall, expect that to happen Wednesday!! Just a gut

 

[cbcwpg]

http://slam.canoe.com/Slam/Hockey/NHL/Winnipeg/2016/10/10/22673537.html

During his meeting with members of the media on Monday, Maurice made it clear he has no plans to anoint Michael Hutchinson or Connor Hellebuyck as the No. 1 guy going into the new season.

But doesn't Maurice believe it's important to provide some clarity for the players after such a big move was made?

“No, I absolutely do not,” said Maurice. “Both are playing. Both will have to be given the opportunity to grab it. And they're both going to grab it at different times and they're also going to lose it at different times. That's where the growth comes.

“It's not just keep throwing a guy in, no matter the result. That's absolutely not the case. They have to fight for it and then perform under that pressure.”

***

Expecting a pretty even split as long as both are performing. If one really falters... who knows.

 

[SensibleGuy]

What's a ".918 goaltender"? Wasn't "Hutch" a ".940 goaltender" until he got a.bit more "experience" (or at least until other teams got a bit more experience of him)?

a .918 goaltender is a goalie who, after a reasonably substantial sample size of games played, has a .918 sv%. It ain't complicated. Now, is Helly a .918 goaltender? Ask me in 2 or 3 years. Right now we don't know. We do know though that Pav is a .906 goaltender, and that isn't good enough. I'd rather take a chance on somebody who might be a .918 goalie than somebody who isn't even close.

 

[AlphaLackey]

Expect a 1A - 1B system (especially with a rotation expected in a heavy November month) until one of them really grabs the brass ring.

... when suddenly...

http://slam.canoe.com/Slam/Hockey/NHL/Winnipeg/2016/10/10/22673537.html

During his meeting with members of the media on Monday, Maurice made it clear he has no plans to anoint Michael Hutchinson or Connor Hellebuyck as the No. 1 guy going into the new season.

But doesn't Maurice believe it's important to provide some clarity for the players after such a big move was made?

“No, I absolutely do not,†said Maurice. “Both are playing. Both will have to be given the opportunity to grab it. And they're both going to grab it at different times and they're also going to lose it at different times. That's where the growth comes.

“It's not just keep throwing a guy in, no matter the result. That's absolutely not the case. They have to fight for it and then perform under that pressure.â€

 

[Skidooboy]

a .918 goaltender is a goalie who, after a reasonably substantial sample size of games played, has a .918 sv%. It ain't complicated. Now, is Helly a .918 goaltender? Ask me in 2 or 3 years. Right now we don't know. We do know though that Pav is a .906 goaltender, and that isn't good enough. I'd rather take a chance on somebody who might be a .918 goalie than somebody who isn't even close.

It's silly!
People are worried that Helly and Hutch arent "experienced"
The truth is that the worst case scenario is these guys are both as bad as Pavs(leagues worst starter), but with less cap space. So even if they BOTH FLOP, we are no worse off than we were with Pavs, but with more cash to sign a replacement.

 

[kylbaz]

I could point out that Pavelec has a consistently worse save percentage than his alternative options behind the same defense?

(I dug into some interesting numbers when I was replying to you, and decided I want to look at them further later)

I have defended Pavs, but I came into camp willing to let the young guys take over. But I was disappointed at Helle's performance, didn't see much of Hutch so can't comment. Both of them started off hot and have cooled off significantly. Helle finished the year in his last 11 games with a save percentage under .900. Hutch just seems to let in sloppy goals, almost every game. He looked so solid when he first came up, and just hasn't looked the same since. I'm all for the youth movement, but it's not like either of them really stood out. Hutch also got his shot last year (think it was last year) when Pavs was hurt. He was given every opportunity to take the #1 job and he simply blew it.

 

[FinJetster]

Can't say I'm devastated about this news. This organization became "my team" way back, when the Thrashers had two Finnish goalies. The first guy I loved for his relentless mentality, while the second one had a great raw talent. A bit after that the first guy had to retire, and we got Pavelec. Pretty quickly it became clear to me, that he didn't have as much either aforementioned qualities.
So, I always thought that the Thrashers should've kept Lehtonen, at least until someone better came along. I never, ever saw anything in Pavs, that would've made him that guy. But I quickly became minority. Somehow, pretty much all the fans, and the owners, seemed to think that Opie was the guy to go with. It only became to change a bit at the last years of the Thrashers.

And then happened the move to Winnipeg, and it all started again. Just as I thought the fans, and the owners and the coaches had begun to see he's not the guy, the move happened, and everyone here seemed to be really happy with him being the number on guy again...

So, I've been patient. But I'm glad, we're all on the same page now. Well, been a few years already .

 

[SensibleGuy]

I have defended Pavs, but I came into camp willing to let the young guys take over. But I was disappointed at Helle's performance, didn't see much of Hutch so can't comment. Both of them started off hot and have cooled off significantly. Helle finished the year in his last 11 games with a save percentage under .900. Hutch just seems to let in sloppy goals, almost every game. He looked so solid when he first came up, and just hasn't looked the same since. I'm all for the youth movement, but it's not like either of them really stood out. Hutch also got his shot last year (think it was last year) when Pavs was hurt. He was given every opportunity to take the #1 job and he simply blew it.

Define "blew it" please. You mean he came in, played great for a bunch of games, cooled off for a few, posted a great number in his last game with the big club, and then got sent down because Pavelec refused to go for a conditioning stint? I'm sorry, but I'm going to have to see a season or 2 of pretty crappy work from Helly before I say he's blown anything.

 

[Eyeseeing]

Define "blew it" please. You mean he came in, played great for a bunch of games, cooled off for a few, posted a great number in his last game with the big club, and then got sent down because Pavelec refused to go for a conditioning stint? I'm sorry, but I'm going to have to see a season or 2 of pretty crappy work from Helly before I say he's blown anything.

Change the names Hutch/Helle to Pavs, then the narrative suggested fits perfectly.
Never saw a goalie get treated so preferentially while playing so bad as Pavs did.
We get to move on & I agree we have to give both Hell/Hutch 2 years at least before crapping on them like Pavs.
GJG

 

[kylbaz]

Define "blew it" please. You mean he came in, played great for a bunch of games, cooled off for a few, posted a great number in his last game with the big club, and then got sent down because Pavelec refused to go for a conditioning stint? I'm sorry, but I'm going to have to see a season or 2 of pretty crappy work from Helly before I say he's blown anything.

I was talking about Hutch. He had the opportunity to take the reigns last year and he failed. He was below average. For Helle I just wish his season ended on a more positive note than a save % of under .900 in his last few weeks.

 

[cbcwpg]

I knew the Jets were going to walk away from Pavelec one day and I figured that day would be when his contract was done. Honestly surprised they decided to walk away one year earlier, given the historical track record this team has with trying to fit square pegs in round holes.

Now, it will take a season or two to see if this was a good move to go with Hutch / Helly. Time will tell. But, I think we can all agree that staying the course with Pavelec was not the way to go. Time to try something different.

A couple hours left for someone to claim him. I wonder if Chevy is in his office chanting.. " please, please, please, someone grab him "

 

[sipowicz]

He's our 5 mil dollar Budaj for the year I guess. Comrie is available If an injury ever happens. They had a chance was it 2 or 3 years ago to buy out Pav's contract and only pay him 1/3 of his existing contract.


Call it being stubborn or lack of insight, but those new seats could have been bought and paid for already.

In a year or two Comrie will be pushing for Helly or Hutchs job and from what I heard Comrie had the best camp of all the goalies already this season. It's the nature of the job, in with the new and better out with the old and ........not so good.

 

[SensibleGuy]

I was talking about Hutch. He had the opportunity to take the reigns last year and he failed. He was below average. For Helle I just wish his season ended on a more positive note than a save % of under .900 in his last few weeks.

well I think most of us feel Helly is the future. Both of them are likely better than .906 though after a few seasons. But if they aren't, so be it. We need better than that no matter what so there's no point sticking with the status quo.

 

[ps241]

I was talking about Hutch. He had the opportunity to take the reigns last year and he failed. He was below average. For Helle I just wish his season ended on a more positive note than a save % of under .900 in his last few weeks.

There is always a randomness to save % though. The issue is Pavs has been bad for 4 of the 5 seasons in Winnipeg and the only one he did well in was the year he split the net with Hutch. He never proved he could be an NHL starter yet he was gifted the position? Time to turn the page and give other guys a shot and this time let's not wait 5 years to make the call on replacing bad goaltending.

 

[SensibleGuy]

...Time to turn the page and give other guys a shot and this time let's not wait 5 years to make the call on replacing bad goaltending.

exactly.