Player Discussion Alex Galchenyuk: Time to loosen the restraints?

What should be done with Alex?

  • Play him at Centre, let him do his thing

    Votes: 121 73.8%
  • Trade him now for whatever

    Votes: 21 12.8%
  • Stay the course

    Votes: 11 6.7%
  • Who cares? He's a bust

    Votes: 11 6.7%

  • Total voters
    164
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Scriptor

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Jan 1, 2014
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Pacioretty is gone. He isn't coming back. I don't see how MB can seriously justify trading away both of our top 6 LWs in one offseason. I can't see a team offering up a top center prospect for Galchenyuk, or a top LD, which are pretty much the only pieces I would even consider moving Chucky for. Honestly, he has a tonne more value to us than he currently does on the trade block.

I'm pretty confident that Galchenyuk is sticking around, and least for the short term.

I'M actually not so sure that he sticks around beyond this contract if he isn't moved. I'd certainly want the pieces that you described in return for Galchenyuk as well, but there is another question that maybe we should ask ourselves:

Is Galchenyuk worth more NOW on the trade front, or after he refuses to re-up with MON next offseason and starts his last season as a Hab before testing the UFA market?
 
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Bryson

#EugeneMolson
Jun 25, 2008
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Drouin isn't a center, we agree on that I hope.

For what it's worth though, you literally just said Radulov was 54 pt winger here but a 72 point winger with top end linemates. Wouldn't same apply for Drouin? If Drouin played with Seguin and Benn he'd be a stud too?

It's odd because back in the day I actually proved Galchenyuk's production went to die with Eller. The EGG line only had success if Gallagher was on it, once Gallagher went off it went to ****. Eller and Galchenyuk as a duo were terribad, people just focus on EGG a lot. The real duo was galchenyuk and Gallagher which was repeated over and over later on.

Drouin isn't a center? Perhaps you can fax Bergevin those sentiments on our behalf?

You're doing a bit of goal post dancing there. You said that the quality of Galchenyuk's linemates was not his problem and yet here and in your previous post you argued that better linemates does matter. Contradiction much? So yes let's all agree that better linemates and what position a player plays does matter given the context that it's a team game. Good.

Would Drouin do better with Seguin and Benn? Maybe... until something didn't go his way and he had something to pout about. Have you ever seen Radulov pout... recently? :sarcasm: Radulov plays with hate, passion or whatever you want to call it. This is not something that can be taught. Either you have it or you don't.

Galchenyuk and Gallgher did have good chemistry in part because they were roommates and because of Gallagher's style of play.

Both Eller and Galchenyuk should have been this team's centers going into the future. Had we kept Radulov, Pacioretty-AG-Radu is a bonafide nhl 1st line. Both Patches and Radu play great defense too so that line is not a liability. We are seeing that Eller is a very capable #2C. He also plays well with skilled players, creates a ton of space for his teammates and has great vision. It would be interesting to see if Drouin would succeed on his wing. All of a sudden it's starting to look like a pretty decent top 6 and wasn't out of the realm of possibility. Both Drouin and Eller actually had great playoff success. Alone, none of these players could carry a team on their own but put them all together and just like magic... good things happen.
 
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Scriptor

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Jan 1, 2014
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Agreed. I like Galchenyuk with Scherbak. I also like Gallagher on that line. If things don't change... There are many things we can try but it's a tank year regardless.

Top 3 Lines in any order

Scherbak / Galchenyuk / Gallagher
Lehkonen / Drouin / Hudon
Patch / Danault / Shaw

then

Deslauriers / DLR / Byron
Carr, Froese, L Shaw

Let them struggle and figure it out in another tank year.

I'm really not fond of your lineup, TBH. Not with two defensively suspect wingers playing out of position; Scherbak on LW and Galchenyuk at C. I too think that, down the line, Galchenyuk and Scherbak might make a dynamite pair on the same line, but I don't see that unless they play with a strong two-way C with offensive upside like a Stasny or an O'Reilly to take away the need for them to concentrate on a quick back check.

IMO, they would make a great 2nd line with a strong, N/S, two-way C with offensive upside (maybe Poehling in a few years?)

Zadina, maximizes his shooting angles playing RW and Drouin maximizes his playmaking abilities playing LW. Same for Hudon who should remain on LW and Lehkonen, more of a sniper than a playmaker, could also benefit from playing on the right side as left-hander.

Not happening, I know, but I'd love to dream/see:

Drouin - Tavares - Gallagher
Galchenyuk - O'Reilly - Scherbak
Hudon - Danault - Zadina
Byron -Evans - Lehkonen

There's enough depth up front in this lineup to switch players in and out in case one is having an off game or to replace players in case of injury and still have an offensively productive lineup.
 

Scriptor

Registered User
Jan 1, 2014
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Who said that Radu was nothing more than a 54 point winger? Hmm let me see.. 417, Scrubadam, Jaffy, TLTQ, the list is too long to be honest. It doesn't matter if Drouin matches 54 points, we lost the better player. This team also had need of a 1st line center. 54 points is more like 2nd line C. Could have just kept Desharnais if that was the goal lol. Many also said that Drouin would outproduce Radulov this season. So much for that prediction.

I don't like CJ either. I wanted Hartley or Boucher but I don't think any coach would be able to save this team given Bergevin's disastrous summer of doom.

Yep Galchenyuk had great linemates... for short stints. He went PPG with Pacioretty and EVERY SINGLE TIME he was placed at center but Therrien broke up the line to give Pacioretty back to DD. The EGG line, Eller-Galchenyuk-Gallagher also had great success but then AG was moved to Plekanec's wing (arguably his least successful position) and went cold for the rest of the season. It's not coincidence that Plekanec's wing is coined "where players go to die" lol.

They had great success in a lesser role and, when matched up against better opposition, production dwindled. IMO, there was another situation developing at the same time on that line -- it was the tale of two duos and not an actual line. When they were productive, it was Eller-Gallagher producing or Galchenyuk-Gallagher producing. There was zero actual chemistry between Galchenyuk and Eller, with the Dane hellbent on the same role that Galchenyuk might be vying for, a top-6 center role.

Let,s just say that Eller wasn't doing Galchenyuk any favours (and not allowing him use his skills on that line). I remember too many short passes from elder to Galchenyuk when Chuckie was tightly covered. It really looked like Eller was initiating a give and go and wanted Galchenyuk to take the hit for him. It usually took Galchenyuk out of the play or lead to turnovers where Galchenyuk passed off as the culprit for losing the puck.

Wasn't a fan of that line because of this, but Eller-Gallagher or Galchenyuk-Gallagher always made sense. Then again, Gallagher-whomever always makes sense :)
 

Scriptor

Registered User
Jan 1, 2014
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Drouin isn't a center? Perhaps you can fax Bergevin those sentiments on our behalf?

You're doing a bit of goal post dancing there. You said that the quality of Galchenyuk's linemates was not his problem and yet here and in your previous post you argued that better linemates does matter. Contradiction much? So yes let's all agree that better linemates and what position a player plays does matter given the context that it's a team game. Good.

Would Drouin do better with Seguin and Benn? Maybe... until something didn't go his way and he had something to pout about. Have you ever seen Radulov pout... recently? :sarcasm: Radulov plays with hate, passion or whatever you want to call it. This is not something that can be taught. Either you have it or you don't.

Galchenyuk and Gallgher did have good chemistry in part because they were roommates and because of Gallagher's style of play.

Both Eller and Galchenyuk should have been this team's centers going into the future. Had we kept Radulov, Pacioretty-AG-Radu is a bonafide nhl 1st line. Both Patches and Radu play great defense too so that line is not a liability. We are seeing that Eller is a very capable #2C. He also plays well with skilled players, creates a ton of space for his teammates and has great vision. It would be interesting to see if Drouin would succeed on his wing. All of a sudden it's starting to look like a pretty decent top 6 and wasn't out of the realm of possibility. Both Drouin and Eller actually had great playoff success. Alone, none of these players could carry a team on their own but put them all together and just like magic... good things happen.

And this is why Pacioretty loved playing with Danault -- he didn't need to think D-first, unlike playing with Galchenyuk. Radulov, without being an ace defensive player did, however, back check with great effort. He was 100 miles an hour in all facets of play, strong or weaker. That's a huge plus for Radulov's play.

In theory, this could be a good #1 line, but individual commitment to this happening from both Galchenyuk and pacioretty is far from a guarantee.
 

Scriptor

Registered User
Jan 1, 2014
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I'm amazed he wasn't traded in the offseason last year. Won't be surprised if he's dealt this year. Why are we hanging onto this guy if we're just going to ruin him?

Bergevin should just get some Cs and give Galchenyuk AND Drouin a chance to express themselves on the wing with a quality pivot each.
 
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Bryson

#EugeneMolson
Jun 25, 2008
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They had great success in a lesser role and, when matched up against better opposition, production dwindled. IMO, there was another situation developing at the same time on that line -- it was the tale of two duos and not an actual line. When they were productive, it was Eller-Gallagher producing or Galchenyuk-Gallagher producing. There was zero actual chemistry between Galchenyuk and Eller, with the Dane hellbent on the same role that Galchenyuk might be vying for, a top-6 center role.

Let,s just say that Eller wasn't doing Galchenyuk any favours (and not allowing him use his skills on that line). I remember too many short passes from elder to Galchenyuk when Chuckie was tightly covered. It really looked like Eller was initiating a give and go and wanted Galchenyuk to take the hit for him. It usually took Galchenyuk out of the play or lead to turnovers where Galchenyuk passed off as the culprit for losing the puck.

Wasn't a fan of that line because of this, but Eller-Gallagher or Galchenyuk-Gallagher always made sense. Then again, Gallagher-whomever always makes sense :)

I agree with most of this but it's so hard to judge and evaluate given that they were rookies back then. EGG was fine for the short term but a GM with vision would have developed both of these guys as centers for the long term future of the team.

And this is why Pacioretty loved playing with Danault -- he didn't need to think D-first, unlike playing with Galchenyuk. Radulov, without being an ace defensive player did, however, back check with great effort. He was 100 miles an hour in all facets of play, strong or weaker. That's a huge plus for Radulov's play.

In theory, this could be a good #1 line, but individual commitment to this happening from both Galchenyuk and pacioretty is far from a guarantee.

Yes Radulov drove the play like a center, from the wing. Pacioretty loves to play easy minutes. It's why he complained when he was put on Plekanec's wing and couldn't wait to get back with chouchou DD.

PS when you control the offensive zone you don't need to be great defensively and AG is not going to learn how to play center by playing on the wing contrary to popular belief.
 

Habs Halifax

Loyal Habs Fan
Jul 11, 2016
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I'm really not fond of your lineup, TBH. Not with two defensively suspect wingers playing out of position; Scherbak on LW and Galchenyuk at C. I too think that, down the line, Galchenyuk and Scherbak might make a dynamite pair on the same line, but I don't see that unless they play with a strong two-way C with offensive upside like a Stasny or an O'Reilly to take away the need for them to concentrate on a quick back check.

IMO, they would make a great 2nd line with a strong, N/S, two-way C with offensive upside (maybe Poehling in a few years?)

Zadina, maximizes his shooting angles playing RW and Drouin maximizes his playmaking abilities playing LW. Same for Hudon who should remain on LW and Lehkonen, more of a sniper than a playmaker, could also benefit from playing on the right side as left-hander.

Not happening, I know, but I'd love to dream/see:

Drouin - Tavares - Gallagher
Galchenyuk - O'Reilly - Scherbak
Hudon - Danault - Zadina
Byron -Evans - Lehkonen

There's enough depth up front in this lineup to switch players in and out in case one is having an off game or to replace players in case of injury and still have an offensively productive lineup.

The idea is Tavares and all in or no moves at all. The lineup I showed you is with no Tavares obviously. It’s one where you focus on youth and to let them grow with no pressure to win.
 

LyricalLyricist

Registered User
Aug 21, 2007
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Drouin isn't a center? Perhaps you can fax Bergevin those sentiments on our behalf?

You're doing a bit of goal post dancing there. You said that the quality of Galchenyuk's linemates was not his problem and yet here and in your previous post you argued that better linemates does matter. Contradiction much? So yes let's all agree that better linemates and what position a player plays does matter given the context that it's a team game. Good.

Would Drouin do better with Seguin and Benn? Maybe... until something didn't go his way and he had something to pout about. Have you ever seen Radulov pout... recently? :sarcasm: Radulov plays with hate, passion or whatever you want to call it. This is not something that can be taught. Either you have it or you don't.

Galchenyuk and Gallgher did have good chemistry in part because they were roommates and because of Gallagher's style of play.

Both Eller and Galchenyuk should have been this team's centers going into the future. Had we kept Radulov, Pacioretty-AG-Radu is a bonafide nhl 1st line. Both Patches and Radu play great defense too so that line is not a liability. We are seeing that Eller is a very capable #2C. He also plays well with skilled players, creates a ton of space for his teammates and has great vision. It would be interesting to see if Drouin would succeed on his wing. All of a sudden it's starting to look like a pretty decent top 6 and wasn't out of the realm of possibility. Both Drouin and Eller actually had great playoff success. Alone, none of these players could carry a team on their own but put them all together and just like magic... good things happen.


I'm not sure what I contradicted? Having better linemates helps anybody but I don't think it's a problem for Galchenyuk. He's not paired with McCarron or something. Besides, you argued Galchenyuk needed super talented linemates to salvage his career. The guy has a career, there is nothing to salvage.

Eller on 2nd line isn't a contender. I realize he's doing well now but I think he's good in spurts. He's very inconsistent, I would not expect him to be a #2 long term. That's my opinion, you have your own.
 

CauZuki

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Feb 19, 2008
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That's the reason why all those ex-Habs players are producing more.

While I can agree the amount of quality isn't overwhelming, but I simply can't ignore that:

Subban is a perennial Norris finalist.
Eller is doing well in Washington.
Morrow doing a solid job in Winnipeg but we keep Benn/Schlemko and sign Alzner to an albatross...
Debrincat looking really good and Shaw is officially damaged goods for 4 more years.
Smith-Pelly seems to be doing fine in Washington as well.
Andrighetto doing admirably in Colorado.

I would also count Sergachev but he barely got the opportunity to get his development stagnated by a management team with philosophies from the stone age...

Even when counting the decent moves in Petry/Danault, there is an irrefutable pattern of bad decisions and great teams thrive on the ability to make something out of nothing. We apparently can turn something into nothing and overpay for a bad version of what we already gave away...
 
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1909

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Jul 6, 2016
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While I can agree the amount of quality isn't overwhelming, but I simply can't ignore.

Subban is a perennial Norris finalist.
Eller doing well in Washington.
Morrow doing a solid job in the West conference finals but we keep Benn/Schlemko and sign Alzner to an albatross...
Debrincat looking really good and Shaw is officially damaged goods for 4 more years.
Smith-Pelly seems to be doing fine in Washington as well.
Andrighetto doing admirably in Colorado.

I would also count Sergachev but he barely got the opportunity to get his development stagnated by a management team with philosophies from the stone age...

Even when counting the decent moves in Petry/Danault, there is an irrefutable pattern of bad decisions and great teams thrive on the ability to make something from nothing. We apparently can turn something into nothing and overpay for a bad version of what we already gave away...

Morrow is not playing since a long while for the Jets.
Andrighetto is nothing special, really.
Smith Pelley wask called Smith Belly when he was here

Weber was injured all year long but had better stats than Subban last season.
Sergachev is playing on a very strong team, allowing him to play sheltered minutes and PP. Drouin was sent to the wolves by forcing him to play center.

nothing proved that they would had selected De Brincat if they would had kept their second round picks.
 
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HBDay

Registered User
Jan 28, 2013
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While I can agree the amount of quality isn't overwhelming, but I simply can't ignore.

Subban is a perennial Norris finalist.
Eller doing well in Washington.
Morrow doing a solid job in the West conference finals but we keep Benn/Schlemko and sign Alzner to an albatross...
Debrincat looking really good and Shaw is officially damaged goods for 4 more years.
Smith-Pelly seems to be doing fine in Washington as well.
Andrighetto doing admirably in Colorado.

I would also count Sergachev but he barely got the opportunity to get his development stagnated by a management team with philosophies from the stone age...

Even when counting the decent moves in Petry/Danault, there is an irrefutable pattern of bad decisions and great teams thrive on the ability to make something from nothing. We apparently can turn something into nothing and overpay for a bad version of what we already gave away...

We do have a knack for screwing up assets. This is mostly because of mister right now Bergevin who completely rebuked on his build from the draft and build from the inside philosophy. Exactly why I am strongly advocating not trading our 3rd pick at all OR Galchenyuk. Just let it be see what happens.

I do however think you are reaching a bit on some of your examples. Eller is pretty much still Eller he was pretty good when we traded him, he's still pretty good. Smith-Pelly is the same player, I'm actually surprised he's still getting paid to play hockey. Andrighetto I could see being dropped by Colorado and will likely end up in Europe soon.
 

groovejuice

Without deviation progress is not possible
Jun 27, 2011
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Morrow is not playing since a long while for the Jets.
Andrighetto is nothing special, really.
Smith Pelley wask called Smith Belly when he was here

Weber was injured all year long but had better stats than Subban last season.
Sergachev is playing on a very strong team, allowing him to play sheltered minutes and PP. Drouin was sent to the wolves by forcing him to play center.

nothing proved that they would had selected De Brincat if they would had kept their second round picks.

Which stats for Weber/Subban are you looking at for 2016-17?
 

groovejuice

Without deviation progress is not possible
Jun 27, 2011
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Last year Weber finished 6th in Norris voting
I’m
Assuming he means that
Weber had a very good 1st year for the Habs
The trade isn’t as lopsided as people think

Look at the votes. Those seemingly high finishes usually aren't close to the top 3. Norris voting isn't a great stat to use.

I'd agree without hesitation that Weber had a good season for the team though. He's very steady in his end and a great addition on the PP.
 

groovejuice

Without deviation progress is not possible
Jun 27, 2011
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@Zorba look at the top 10 Norris votes from last year. You'll see a huge gap between 1 and 3. Now notice 6.

FBlvYKi.jpg
 

Ezpz

No mad pls
Apr 16, 2013
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Without that single first place vote, likely from a Montreal journalist, Weber would have even less points. Hell you know most 4th/5th place vote came from Habs writers. If writers were only allowed to give 3 votes instead of 5, Weber wouldn't even be a candidate. It was very much a 3.5 horse race.
 

Toene

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Nov 17, 2014
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Without that single first place vote, likely from a Montreal journalist, Weber would have even less points. Hell you know most 4th/5th place vote came from Habs writers. If writers were only allowed to give 3 votes instead of 5, Weber wouldn't even be a candidate. It was very much a 3.5 horse race.

Probably Renaud Lavoie
 

NobleSix

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I'M actually not so sure that he sticks around beyond this contract if he isn't moved. I'd certainly want the pieces that you described in return for Galchenyuk as well, but there is another question that maybe we should ask ourselves:

Is Galchenyuk worth more NOW on the trade front, or after he refuses to re-up with MON next offseason and starts his last season as a Hab before testing the UFA market?

I honestly think he really likes Montreal and will stay here as long as he is welcome.

If he didn't ask for a trade when Therrien was treating him like trash, and was willing to re-up with the Habs on a contract that eats up a couple of his prime UFA years, I'm not sure he would suddenly just refuse to sign here under a better coach who has definetly made him a better player.

From what I gather from listening to interviews, second hand accounts from people who have talked with him, and all of his social media activity, I get the impression that he really wants to be here.
 
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Sorinth

Registered User
Jan 18, 2013
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They had great success in a lesser role and, when matched up against better opposition, production dwindled. IMO, there was another situation developing at the same time on that line -- it was the tale of two duos and not an actual line. When they were productive, it was Eller-Gallagher producing or Galchenyuk-Gallagher producing. There was zero actual chemistry between Galchenyuk and Eller, with the Dane hellbent on the same role that Galchenyuk might be vying for, a top-6 center role.

Let,s just say that Eller wasn't doing Galchenyuk any favours (and not allowing him use his skills on that line). I remember too many short passes from elder to Galchenyuk when Chuckie was tightly covered. It really looked like Eller was initiating a give and go and wanted Galchenyuk to take the hit for him. It usually took Galchenyuk out of the play or lead to turnovers where Galchenyuk passed off as the culprit for losing the puck.

Wasn't a fan of that line because of this, but Eller-Gallagher or Galchenyuk-Gallagher always made sense. Then again, Gallagher-whomever always makes sense :)

In 2012-2013, the EGG line only played together for 3 games. It was mostly a Galchenyuk-Eller duo that year and they certainly were productive and had chemistry

Here are there linemate that season
8 games with Prust
5 games with Armstrong
4 games with Ryder
4 games with Dumont
3 games with Bourque
3 games with Gallagher
2 games with Cole
1 game with Gionta

Now after that season as a duo they didn't have a lot of success without Gallagher. But I think it had less to do with chemistry and more to do with them being frustrated with their roles and not playing well as a result.

That said Eller was always best when he had a shoot from anywhere winger. So he meshed really well with Gallagher and Gionta for example. But the conspiracy theory about Eller intentionally trying to make Galchenyuk look bad is just nonsensical.
 
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Beer and Chips

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I honestly think he really likes Montreal and will stay here as long as he is welcome.

If he didn't ask for a trade when Therrien was treating him like trash, and was willing to re-up with the Habs on a contract that eats up a couple of his prime UFA years, I'm not sure he would suddenly just refuse to sign here under a better coach who has definetly made him a better player.

From what I gather from listening to interviews, second hand accounts from people who have talked with him, and all of his social media activity, I get the impression that he really wants to be here.

Or maybe he's learned to say the right things and keep his true feelings to himself, as advised by his agent.
 
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Scriptor

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Jan 1, 2014
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I agree with most of this but it's so hard to judge and evaluate given that they were rookies back then. EGG was fine for the short term but a GM with vision would have developed both of these guys as centers for the long term future of the team.



Yes Radulov drove the play like a center, from the wing. Pacioretty loves to play easy minutes. It's why he complained when he was put on Plekanec's wing and couldn't wait to get back with chouchou DD.

PS when you control the offensive zone you don't need to be great defensively and AG is not going to learn how to play center by playing on the wing contrary to popular belief.


I'm not advocating -- for my part -- that he will learn to play C by playing wing. I'm saying he should play wing and not C, period. Get him a friggin' C he has good chemistry with and one that he can go through positional permutations with if the play develops that way. I'm not advocating to limit Galchenyuk's creativity.

The same goes for Drouin. He can be as creative on the wing as at C, maybe more, without as heavy defensive considerations at that position.
 
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