Alec Baldwin Fatally Shoots Crewmember on Film Set

[John Price]

New charges against Alec Baldwin in fatal "Rust" shooting New "Rust" shooting criminal charges filed against Alec Baldwin for incident that killed Halyna Hutchins

 

[DaaaaB's]

New charges against Alec Baldwin in fatal "Rust" shooting New "Rust" shooting criminal charges filed against Alec Baldwin for incident that killed Halyna Hutchins

I'm sure this will end with the prosecution looking like fools again.

 

[The Crypto Guy]

Thank god. Let him rot.

 

[John Price]

 

[Rodgerwilco]

Like 3 days before these charges got filed I was thinking "Hmm, remember when Alec Baldwin killed that woman and then they were just like 'nahhh you're good'?"

Will be interested to see what happens this time. Still don't understand how it's been this long and he hasn't been convicted in some way for this.

 

[Osprey]

It sounds like the new information is testimony from firearms experts that the gun couldn't have fired on its own, meaning that Baldwin had to have pulled the trigger. I imagine that you need to have that established in order to pursue involuntary manslaughter charges, but I suspect that they're going to have a hard time making a case on top of that to warrant a conviction. It feels to me like he's being charged because lying about pulling the trigger, showing no (believable) remorse and taking no responsibility makes it seem like justice isn't being served if he faces no consequences. It makes me wonder if he still would've been charged if he had just been honest and remorseful about the incident and taken full responsibility.

 

[Babe Ruth]

It feels to me like he's being charged because lying about pulling the trigger, showing no (believable) remorse and taking no responsibility makes it seem like justice isn't being served if he faces no consequences. It makes me wonder: if he had just been honest and remorseful about the incident and taken full responsibility, would he still have been charged?

It's possible.. but I'll mention that manslaughter is a crime with a relatively high clearance rate.. because it is typically apparent, & not a crime that is concealed. A drunk driver kills another driver, a person admits accidentally shooting their family member etc. So it's not hard to bring a charge.

I think this was a simple/solid charge to bring to a grand jury.. there is a dead woman, and a shooter who was seen shooting her. It will be adjudicated now, and Baldwin isn't facing a long time. I know in my state there is a pretty wide sentence length for manslaughter.. which I assume gives a judge discretion based on determined degree of recklessness.

I had a neighbor years ago, who was playing with a gun at his house party. He shot & killed a girl. Every witness testified that is was accidental, no malicious motive etc. But he went to prison on a manslaughter conviction. It was sad all around, but just (imo).

 

[Osprey]

It's possible.. but I'll mention that manslaughter is a crime with a relatively high clearance rate.. because it is typically apparent, & not a crime that is concealed. A drunk driver kills another driver, a person admits accidentally shooting their family member etc. So it's not hard to bring a charge.

I think this was a simple/solid charge to bring to a grand jury.. there is a dead woman, and a shooter who was seen shooting her. It will be adjudicated now, and Baldwin isn't facing a long time. I know in my state there is a pretty wide sentence length for manslaughter.. which I assume gives a judge discretion based on determined degree of recklessness.

I had a neighbor years ago, who was playing with a gun at his house party. He shot & killed a girl. Every witness testified that is was accidental, no malicious motive etc. But he went to prison on a manslaughter conviction. It was sad all around, but just (imo).

I think that the fact that makes this different than your neighbor is that this happened on the set of a movie, where the actor is expected to handle and fire guns. It wasn't playing with a gun at a house party, which is simply reckless and indefensible. It's going to be harder, I imagine, to prove recklessness in this case.

 

[Babe Ruth]

I think that the fact that makes this different than your neighbor is that this happened on the set of a movie, where the actor is expected to handle and fire guns. It wasn't playing with a gun at a house party, which is simply reckless and indefensible. It's going to be harder..to prove recklessness in this case.

I agree..
In my post, I carefully used 'charge', and not 'convict'.. because the unique circumstance here is probably going to influence both a jury (in their perception of 'reckless', and a judge's potential sentencing). I have to admit I'm not sure what the max manslaughter sentence is in New Mexico(?)

 

[DaaaaB's]

Like 3 days before these charges got filed I was thinking "Hmm, remember when Alec Baldwin killed that woman and then they were just like 'nahhh you're good'?"

Will be interested to see what happens this time. Still don't understand how it's been this long and he hasn't been convicted in some way for this.

Probably because he didn't do anything wrong as explained multiple times in this thread already. He was told the gun was empty, it's not an actor's job to make sure props are working correctly. I'm not sure why that's so hard for people to understand.

 

[Rodgerwilco]

Probably because he didn't do anything wrong as explained multiple times in this thread already. He was told the gun was empty, it's not an actor's job to make sure props are working correctly. I'm not sure why that's so hard for people to understand.

I do not agree that he did nothing wrong. I think he was negligent, and I'm not sure I believe his sequence of events that he pulled the hammer back and then put it back in place and the gun just went off.

Anyone who handles a firearm always has a responsibility to make sure they are handling it properly and safely, in my opinion. Given that he is also the main producer and has more experience than anyone else on the set, I think more responsibility falls on him.

 

[DaaaaB's]

I do not agree that he did nothing wrong. I think he was negligent, and I'm not sure I believe his sequence of events that he pulled the hammer back and then put it back in place and the gun just went off.

Anyone who handles a firearm always has a responsibility to make sure they are handling it properly and safely, in my opinion. Given that he is also the main producer and has more experience than anyone else on the set, I think more responsibility falls on him.

Well, that's not how it works on movie sets. If he's responsible for anything it's hiring an incompetent armorer.

 

[Filthy Dangles]

I had a neighbor years ago, who was playing with a gun at his house party. He shot & killed a girl. Every witness testified that is was accidental, no malicious motive etc. But he went to prison on a manslaughter conviction. It was sad all around, but just (imo).

As he should have. Shooting and killing someone with your own personal gun in your own home on purely your own “volition” (even if ‘accidental’ and esp if alcohol/drugs were involved, with it being a house party and all) isn’t comparable to what happened here.

There will be no conviction in this case, even for something more minor like a misdemeanor.

Charges likely getting dismissed again, if they really try hard and pursue a trial he’ll be acquitted

 

[SmytheKing]

As he should have. Shooting and killing someone with your own personal gun in your own home on purely your own “volition” (even if ‘accidental’ and esp if alcohol/drugs were involved, with it being a house party and all) isn’t comparable to what happened here.

There will be no conviction in this case, even for something more minor like a misdemeanor.

Charges likely getting dismissed again, if they really try hard and pursue a trial he’ll be acquitted

Agreed. I think the main thing that people seem to be really missing/forgetting in this situation is that, even if he DID pull the trigger, there's not supposed to be LIVE AMMO IN THE WEAPON. He isn't in charge of that. There is absolutely no suggestion that he was.

There's absolutely zero negligence by him in this case and pursuing charges against him is just weird. If I get into a car and drive it and someone had cut the brake lines, I'm not going to be charged with manslaughter if I hit someone because my car didn't stop at a light while they were crossing.

 

[The Macho King]

As he should have. Shooting and killing someone with your own personal gun in your own home on purely your own “volition” (even if ‘accidental’ and esp if alcohol/drugs were involved, with it being a house party and all) isn’t comparable to what happened here.

There will be no conviction in this case, even for something more minor like a misdemeanor.

Charges likely getting dismissed again, if they really try hard and pursue a trial he’ll be acquitted

Eh - never know how a jury is going to go. Juries are chaotic.

Probably will win on appeal. The only other thing I can think of is a) negligence for not checking the gun himself (don't think this is common practice) and b) negligence for the safety of the set in his role as producer. Both seem thin but you never know.

 

[SmytheKing]

Eh - never know how a jury is going to go. Juries are chaotic.

Probably will win on appeal. The only other thing I can think of is a) negligence for not checking the gun himself (don't think this is common practice) and b) negligence for the safety of the set in his role as producer. Both seem thin but you never know.

But those are likely civil charges (which is easier to prove and he's probably more liable in honestly). There's no criminal charges for being negligent as a producer and there's no expectation that he should have needed to check the gun when there's someone else whose actual job is to do so.

There's just zero reason to charge him here. It reeks of a political stunt for a DA trying to get elected/re-elected by showing they don't let rich people off the hook...while using taxpayer dollars on a case that has probably no chance of getting a conviction.

 

[StreetHawk]

Agreed. I think the main thing that people seem to be really missing/forgetting in this situation is that, even if he DID pull the trigger, there's not supposed to be LIVE AMMO IN THE WEAPON. He isn't in charge of that. There is absolutely no suggestion that he was.

There's absolutely zero negligence by him in this case and pursuing charges against him is just weird. If I get into a car and drive it and someone had cut the brake lines, I'm not going to be charged with manslaughter if I hit someone because my car didn't stop at a light while they were crossing.

Wasn't the main the issue that this production didn't have a certified weapons person on the set whose job is to verify that there is no real ammo? Whether it was Baldwin or another actor, I wouldn't blame the person who pulled the trigger if that was the case.

But, the fault should then lie with the people who made the decision to cut corners financially and didn't pay to have the proper people in place on the set.

Was Baldwin the one or one of the ones making that decision? I haven't heard anyone else get charged in this matter.

 

[SmytheKing]

Wasn't the main the issue that this production didn't have a certified weapons person on the set whose job is to verify that there is no real ammo? Whether it was Baldwin or another actor, I wouldn't blame the person who pulled the trigger if that was the case.

But, the fault should then lie with the people who made the decision to cut corners financially and didn't pay to have the proper people in place on the set.

Was Baldwin the one or one of the ones making that decision? I haven't heard anyone else get charged in this matter.

There’s no criminal case for “not paying for a certified armorer” though. Civil yes and he’s going to be paying a fortune in that trial. However he’s being charged with shooting this person, not hiring practices. There’s just no crime here.

 

[Babe Ruth]

Probably because he didn't do anything wrong as explained multiple times in this thread already. He was told the gun was empty, it's not an actor's job to make sure props are working correctly. I'm not sure why that's so hard for people to undunderstand.

Yeah, I wondered if there were any dispensations in New Mexico law for movie sets, because working with guns on movies is a unique situation. But I looked, & there's nothing in their manslaughter statutes that uniquely shields actors or shooters who assume they're working with blanks, etc. So you (& some others in this thread) aren't explaining anything related to the law, you're offering subjective opinions on what you perceive is/isn't ethically "wrong".

I do think Baldwin will have a sympathetic defense when he claims he relied solely on the armorer's competence. And i do think if convicted it will be on the low/light end of a sentence. But the local prosecutors and a grand jury have felt Baldwin's actions (& the armorer's professional failure) both met the threshold of manslaughter charges.. And I'm not seeing/hearing an outcry from other district attorneys stating this is an unusual, unjust charge/indictment. The only consensus criticism I've heard, is why did the bumbling gun testing take so long.

 

[Troy McClure]

Eh - never know how a jury is going to go. Juries are chaotic.

Probably will win on appeal. The only other thing I can think of is a) negligence for not checking the gun himself (don't think this is common practice) and b) negligence for the safety of the set in his role as producer. Both seem thin but you never know.

I saw a movie set person say actors are not allowed to do this. They are handed a gun they are told is clear and are not allowed to fiddle with it. In this case, there was both and armorer and assistant DP who both were in charge of checking the gun. The DP has already pled guilty for not doing so. The armorer was charged last year for her role in improperly loading the gun.

 

[The Macho King]

I saw a movie set person say actors are not allowed to do this. They are handed a gun they are told is clear and are not allowed to fiddle with it. In this case, there was both and armorer and assistant DP who both were in charge of checking the gun. The DP has already pled guilty for not doing so. The armorer was charged last year for her role in improperly loading the gun.

This was in New Mexico, right? I imagine California has much more well defined precedent on stuff like this. IDK it's pretty damn weird that this is persisting.

 

[Osprey]

Michael Massee was never charged for shooting and killing Brandon Lee on the set of The Crow. It wasn't his fault that the gun wasn't checked prior to the scene. If this Rust shooting had occurred during filming, I don't think that Baldwin would be getting charged, either. What seems a bit reckless to me is that there was no reason for him, during a break in filming, to point the gun at the cinematographer and pull the trigger. That's just careless. If someone handed you a gun and said that it's empty, would you point it at your significant other and pull the trigger? Of course not. That would be stupid, no matter how much you trust the person who handed it to you. Now, whether Baldwin's stupid decision reaches the level of criminal responsibility is the issue. I'm not sure that it does, but he's also not completely blameless, IMO, since a woman would still be alive if he had been more careful.

 

[Chairman Maouth]

"Friday's charges came after prosecutors received new analysis of the weapon from experts in ballistics and forensic testing, the Associated Press reported. "

Translation: after three years of searching, we have finally found an expert who will testify in support of our narrative.

 

[Troy McClure]

"Friday's charges came after prosecutors received new analysis of the weapon from experts in ballistics and forensic testing, the Associated Press reported. "

Translation: after three years of searching, we have finally found an expert who will testify in support of our narrative.

It's going to be an expert fight before the jury. The prosecution will have this guy talk about how he rebuilt the gun to prove had to have Baldwin pulled the trigger, and the defense will point out how this guy rebuilding the gun doesn't prove anything because he fixed it while rebuilding it. So it comes down to what the jury believes.

 

[Chairman Maouth]

It's going to be an expert fight before the jury.

Yep.