Player Discussion Alain Vigneault: Part III

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

Again, I go back to AV's arrogance. What he believes to be simply is. Despite whatever is going on the ice? Need a top-6 forward? Jesper Fasth is your man. Need a shut down defenseman? Girardi, of course.

And the unwillingness to have the players do anything except stickhandle through out-manned situations are is maddening. As is having the PP revert to perimeter passing.

Agreed on trying to pound the rush through a team thats overtly trapping. Its what happened against Ottawa last night and it rarely works.

As you'd imagine, I disagree about the first paragraph. Thats personnel, and he needs to put somebody out there.

 

[True Blue]

As you'd imagine, I disagree about the first paragraph. Thats personnel, and he needs to put somebody out there.

Sure. But Vessey on the 4th line while Fasth is suddenly a top-6 forward?

 

[Crease]

Sure. But Vessey on the 4th line while Fasth is suddenly a top-6 forward?

Coaches have been moving players up/down their lineups in an effort to jump start production since Chris Chelios crawled out of the sea.

 

[DanielBrassard]

I dont get this idea that we need to dump the puck in more. We dump the puck in alot, the problem is we dont have good puck retrievers, and we dont carry in the puck in enough.

 

[Raspewtin]

I dont get this idea that we need to dump the puck in more. We dump the puck in alot, the problem is we dont have good puck retrievers, and we dont carry in the puck in enough.

Yeah, keeping it simple is exactly what this team should not be doing.

 

[True Blue]

Coaches have been moving players up/down their lineups in an effort to jump start production since Chris Chelios crawled out of the sea.

Sure. But Girardi on the top pair? Fasth as a top-6 forward? How does that generate production?

 

[True Blue]

I dont get this idea that we need to dump the puck in more. We dump the puck in alot, the problem is we dont have good puck retrievers, and we dont carry in the puck in enough.

I certainly agree that the Rangers do not have good puck retrievers. But what I have been seeing for a while are futile attempts at stickhandling through 3 defenders.

 

[Crease]

Sure. But Girardi on the top pair? Fasth as a top-6 forward? How does that generate production?

You got me on Girardi.

Fast in the top-6 was, to me, more about moving Vesey down without disrupting too many lines. Also, "top-6" is a bit of a misnomer here. The Rangers do not have a clear-cut top-6.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

You got me on Girardi.

Fast in the top-6 was, to me, more about moving Vesey down without disrupting too many lines. Also, "top-6" is a bit of a misnomer here. The Rangers do not have a clear-cut top-6.

Vesey has really been horrendous for a couple of weeks now. Don't mind any mixing when it comes to him. He needs to find it again before being handed top 6 minutes.

Nobody is happy with the Girardi situation, but having not a single resource even resembling a solution on the right side is the main driver here.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

I dont get this idea that we need to dump the puck in more. We dump the puck in alot, the problem is we dont have good puck retrievers, and we dont carry in the puck in enough.

The team needs a plan B when the opposition is clogging the neutral zone and taking away all speed and skill options with the puck as the Rangers come up the ice. You can blame it on the coach, you can blame it on the players - The truth, as usual, is somewhere in between. But the most brutal games this team has played over the last few years is a direct result of when they're being trapped. When teams clog the neutral zone and take away all skill options from the puck carrier. Quite frankly, I don't know why every team doesn't do this to the Rangers nowadays. They are straight up clueless when this option gets taken away.

And sorry if I don't buy "we don't have good puck retrievers" as an adequate excuse. When that's the only option being presented, the team needs to band together and accept the fact this will be a game more about will than skill

 

[True Blue]

And sorry if I don't buy "we don't have good puck retrievers" as an adequate excuse. When that's the only option being presented, the team needs to band together and accept the fact this will be a game more about will than skill

Agreed, but that is also a tone from the top sentiment. Unfortunately, I never got the feeling that AV feels that way. In my view, he believes that skill will overcome will. Or defensive systems. Which is why there is no such thing as a Plan B. There is only pond hockey.

 

[mrhockey193195]

Am I the only one who thinks Girardi's puck movement has been much better this year, maybe even better than Klein's? I feel like he's playing like a good 5/6 dman right now. Contract aside, the only issue is he's playing with McD instead of Skjei.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Am I the only one who thinks Girardi's puck movement has been much better this year, maybe even better than Klein's? I feel like he's playing like a good 5/6 dman right now. Contract aside, the only issue is he's playing with McD instead of Skjei.

G has been better than Klein and Staal so far.

His puck movement hasn't been anything special,but his overall play is at least passible for a bottom pair D.

Klein and Staal are not performing like NHL players. Staal looks like Hal Gill minus the tuffness.

 

[gorangers0525]

Girardi's first 5 or so game he looked like a 5/6...since then he's looked like a 9-10.

 

[Raspewtin]

G has been better than Klein and Staal so far.

His puck movement hasn't been anything special,but his overall play is at least passible for a bottom pair D.

Klein and Staal are not performing like NHL players. Staal looks like Hal Gill minus the tuffness.

i sincerely don't know what Girardi you are watching

 

[WesMcCauley]

Lol so dumb

 

[WesMcCauley]

The team needs a plan B when the opposition is clogging the neutral zone and taking away all speed and skill options with the puck as the Rangers come up the ice. You can blame it on the coach, you can blame it on the players - The truth, as usual, is somewhere in between. But the most brutal games this team has played over the last few years is a direct result of when they're being trapped. When teams clog the neutral zone and take away all skill options from the puck carrier. Quite frankly, I don't know why every team doesn't do this to the Rangers nowadays. They are straight up clueless when this option gets taken away.

And sorry if I don't buy "we don't have good puck retrievers" as an adequate excuse. When that's the only option being presented, the team needs to band together and accept the fact this will be a game more about will than skill

Ye it was pretty obvious against Ottawa. Lost all our speed in the neutral sone and tried all kinds of fancy passes etc and it resulted in tons of turnovers etc. When they do this against us its pretty simple. Either come with speed and multiple players needs to beat someone 1-1 every time for it to work, wait on atleast one forechecker and then come with speed or dump it in. But when we dump it in we need to help each other out. Cant dump it in and one guy forechecks, need to dump it in when multiple players come thru the neutral sone with speed so we can apply some pressure on their defense. Horrible to watch all the plays not working in the neutral sone and they when they dump it in, one forward forechecks and the other team brake out like its the easiest thing in the world.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Ye it was pretty obvious against Ottawa. Lost all our speed in the neutral sone and tried all kinds of fancy passes etc and it resulted in tons of turnovers etc. When they do this against us its pretty simple. Either come with speed and multiple players needs to beat someone 1-1 every time for it to work, wait on atleast one forechecker and then come with speed or dump it in. But when we dump it in we need to help each other out. Cant dump it in and one guy forechecks, need to dump it in when multiple players come thru the neutral sone with speed so we can apply some pressure on their defense. Horrible to watch all the plays not working in the neutral sone and they when they dump it in, one forward forechecks and the other team brake out like its the easiest thing in the world.

You know how to beat this?

With puck moving defensemen. Not by throwing Marc Staal out there every other shift, particularly with 3 minutes left in a 2-0 game.

 

[ZiGOODejad]

You got me on Girardi.

Fast in the top-6 was, to me, more about moving Vesey down without disrupting too many lines. Also, "top-6" is a bit of a misnomer here. The Rangers do not have a clear-cut top-6.

So every time we see Fast in the top six is because he wants to move someone else down? That's unacceptable. He literally just sticks a defense forward out with almost every duo he uses. Why he has to put an extra one out when Stepan is more then reliable is beyond me. He has his own faults and one of them is being very stubborn with his line up

 

[WesMcCauley]

You know how to beat this?

With puck moving defensemen. Not by throwing Marc Staal out there every other shift, particularly with 3 minutes left in a 2-0 game.

Well sure but we dont have many of them so atm its not an option

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

Lol so dumb

Most teams would love to have AV as a coach. Hes also gotten a team that many left for dead this offseason off to a very good start. I dont see whats so LOL worthy about this article, unless of course you let the echo chamber of this board get the best of you.

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

Lol so dumb

Why is this "so dumb"?

 

[NYRFAN218]

Why is this "so dumb"?

It's not "so dumb" but I can't really see him being a candidate when the reason why this team is where it is right now is because they're shooting at a high clip which is already starting to come down.

As an AV hater, I thought he had a great October. Forwards were great and he managed the D well (whether it was forced because of injury or not). Even when healthy, he had Girardi on the 3rd pair where he should be and got Clendening some games. Forward combinations for the most part were fine. Didn't like Buch on the 4th line but I understood it based on how everyone was playing (forget if that was October or November). Team was playing well, being aggressive, and controlling play.

November was the exact opposite. Basically a copy of last seasons play and his response to this was constant shuffling of lines (part of it forced by injury but he's insisted on changing combos every game even at the expense of breaking up what works such as Grabner - Hayes - Miller). In a month where they had a ton of games, he played his 7th D one game and that 7th D possesses a skill set this defense drastically needs. He went back to Girardi on the first pair where he's getting annihilated. The team is getting hammered again in terms of possession.

A lot to like from AV in October. A lot to dislike from AV in November.

 

[Ori]

yeah I think a coach change is necessary - November was exact copy of last year failure.

 

[WesMcCauley]

Most teams would love to have AV as a coach. Hes also gotten a team that many left for dead this offseason off to a very good start. I dont see whats so LOL worthy about this article, unless of course you let the echo chamber of this board get the best of you.

No he hasnt? Gorton change it around with signing Vesey and trading for Zibanajad. We are looking exactly like we did last season at the same time of the season. Its not sustainable and thats because of our defense and AV because he is still playing Girardi with Mcdonagh, not playing Clendening with Staal who played great together.