News Article: Adam Gretz (NBC Sports) - Sabres' Rebuild Is Still Going Nowhere

[buffalowing88]

Would anyone like to go back to 2014 and keep Darcy?

Can we get Ruff back too?

 

[Icicle]

Who cares about Murray?

He's no longer the Sabres GM.

The question is whether Botterill is doing a good job or not.

The on-ice results are not good.

The question is whether Botterill is able to move the team forward or not.

It’s amazing the magic some people think a GM can whip up in a year or two to change a hockey team burdened with anchor contracts and no depth.

 

[littletonhockeycoach]

Interesting that Pominville’s stats this season and over his career aren’t much different. Yes Vanek has more goals, but when you look at their PIM differential and figure most of those were minors and teams score 20-25% on the PP, the net differential is negligible.

Yeah. Vanek certainly doesn't have anywhere near Poms aptitude for keeping his own team's pucks from entering the opposing team's net....

 

[littletonhockeycoach]

It’s amazing the magic some people think a GM can whip up in a year or two to change a hockey team burdened with anchor contracts and no depth.

From the Hockey News:

Sabres make a brilliant GM hire in Jason Botterill - TheHockeyNews

"The Sabres would be smart to build around Eichel, O’Reilly, Ristolainen and goaltender Robin Lehner similarly."

Looks like Botts is batting .500 at this point......

 

[Ace]

Botterill had a deep hole to dig them out of and he's had to make some pretty tough decisions that have not gone his way.

He took over a team that had 78 points and drove it into a ditch with his coaching hire. They finished last with RoR and Kane and Lehner. He made those changes after the team regressed SIXTEEN points. And they will struggle to return to those 78 points two years later and gifted a lottery win.

If the coach returns the GM should be tied to him directly so he can be fired next thanksgiving too. Deservedly

 

[Ace]

It’s amazing the magic some people think a GM can whip up in a year or two to change a hockey team burdened with anchor contracts and no depth.

Every organization that isn’t Edmonton or Buffalo manages to do it all the time.

What they don’t do is regress so wildly and then pretend the world began last year.

 

[sabremike]

It’s amazing the magic some people think a GM can whip up in a year or two to change a hockey team burdened with anchor contracts and no depth.

Lou Lamorello walked into an organization that took the type of brutal killshot that would destroy almost any team in the entire league for at least half a decade and was a total raging dumpster fire. With a single move (hiring Trotz) he made the team and organization do a complete 180. Maybe we should try and hire a coach who is actually good at his job, worth a shot no?

 

[Willgamesh]

Lou Lamorello walked into an organization that took the type of brutal killshot that would destroy almost any team in the entire league for at least half a decade and was a total raging dumpster fire. With a single move (hiring Trotz) he made the team and organization do a complete 180. Maybe we should try and hire a coach who is actually good at his job, worth a shot no?

i wanted Trotz so bad, too bad we got a buffalo re hash how about Marty next? Razor? Duffer? actually they would still be better then House Fly.

 

[Jim Bob]

It’s amazing the magic some people think a GM can whip up in a year or two to change a hockey team burdened with anchor contracts and no depth.

Being able to keep the team at the 79/80 point level shouldn't have required magic if Murray/Bylsma were so horrible and the culture was so toxic.

The "magic" that Botterill needed was hiring a better coach than Housley. Yet, here we are...

 

[Icicle]

Every organization that isn’t Edmonton or Buffalo manages to do it all the time.

What they don’t do is regress so wildly and then pretend the world began last year.

For one: I do not see a regression between Bylsma's hopeless useless system and Housley's actually potentially useful one that the lack of skill is floundering in.

Two: Give me a hypothetical about how ANY GM would've done differently, with all your benefit of hindsight, and created a wildly different result. No, you don't get to make never actually happen in hockey trade-backs and cherry pick the two best late 1sts in a draft, but you can make a decent choice over another one. Since the topic is Botterill, you're stuck with all of Murray's trash and wasted assets.

 

[Jim Bob]

For one: I do not see a regression between Bylsma's hopeless useless system and Housley's actually potentially useful one that the lack of skill is floundering in.

Two: Give me a hypothetical about how ANY GM would've done differently, with all your benefit of hindsight, and created a wildly different result. No, you don't get to make never actually happen in hockey trade-backs and cherry pick the two best late 1sts in a draft, but you can make a decent choice over another one. Since the topic is Botterill, you're stuck with all of Murray's trash and wasted assets.

Well, another GM could have hired a better coach and then not trade ROR for nothing that has helped the roster this season if we are looking at on ice results over these past two seasons.

 

[Chainshot]

Well, another GM could have hired a better coach and then not trade ROR for nothing that has helped the roster this season if we are looking at on ice results over these past two seasons.

He may have even made moves that improved the win-loss record last season which mitigates RoR's exit commentary. Better coach, better roster moves, different outcome.

 

[Dreakon13]

I think Botts has obviously done a terrible job as far as bringing in suitable NHL depth (or Housley isn't getting enough out of them, which is still on Botts).

But I think it's clear that this group was never intended to be "the" group. He's playing the long game. Rochester is doing well, and the biggest problems not named Okposo are off the books by 20/21... leaving a lot of room for promotions over the next year or two from what should be a successful, confident, winning Amerks group. As far as that plan goes, I think Botts is on the right course.

It would've been nice if someone could've stuck from the depth Botts has cycled in the last year or two... but considering they weren't intended to be long term options anyways, it's hard to get too broken up about it personally.

I think the key things here are patience, and getting rid of Housley... get somebody who can at least draw up decent lines with the crap he does have. The sooner the latter happens, the more palatable the former will be.

 

[Aladyyn]

If this is how Botterill wants to "play the long game" then he probably won't get to play for very long.

 

[Dreakon13]

If this is how Botterill wants to "play the long game" then he probably won't get to play for very long.

Where this team stands in 20/21 will be very telling and is most certainly the pitch he's selling the Pegula's at the moment. Though I appreciate the idea that he's done poorly to make the team competitive in the meantime.

 

[Jim Bob]

I think Botts has obviously done a terrible job as far as bringing in suitable NHL depth (or Housley isn't getting enough out of them, which is still on Botts).

But I think it's clear that this group was never intended to be "the" group. He's playing the long game. Rochester is doing well, and the biggest problems not named Okposo are off the books by 20/21... leaving a lot of room for promotions over the next year or two from what should be a successful, confident, winning Amerks group. As far as that plan goes, I think Botts is on the right course.

It would've been nice if someone could've stuck from the depth Botts has cycled in the last year or two... but considering they weren't intended to be long term options anyways, it's hard to get too broken up about it personally.

I think the key things here is patience, and getting rid of Housley... get somebody who can at least draw up decent lines with the crap he does have. The sooner the latter happens, the more palatable the former will be.

It will be interesting to see how many of the Amerks move up to be impact players in the NHL.

The goalies won't.

Redmond won't.

DOR is probably gone after this season.

It's the four Swedes and that's it. And even with those guys, Nylander is more a suspect than a prospect to many and who knows if Pilut will get a real shot to stay in the lineup despite a bad game here or there.

 

[Dreakon13]

It will be interesting to see how many of the Amerks move up to be impact players in the NHL.

The goalies won't.

Redmond won't.

DOR is probably gone after this season.

It's the four Swedes and that's it. And even with those guys, Nylander is more a suspect than a prospect to many and who knows if Pilut will get a real shot to stay in the lineup despite a bad game here or there.

I'm personally not reading into Pilut's treatment this year that much. Housley is a buffoon so who knows really, but I suspect it was more about giving him a taste and teaching him stuff this year than trying him out full time. He's back with the Amerks now.

Why is DOR probably gone? I understand he, Asplund and Olofsson have been one doozy of a line this year. That's a good spot for him to be in.

UPL is the goalie of the future. That's likely not a part of the two year plan, but it's definitely the long term plan. Ullmark and Hutton aren't cutting the mustard but Ullmark is likely staying for the duration and who knows how they'll be if the team in front of them is ever actually legitimately good.

I'd also suspect Borgen, Smith are on the list with a shot to make the team as spots open, Swede's aside.

 

[jc17]

Where this team stands in 20/21 will be very telling and is most certainly the pitch he's selling the Pegula's at the moment. Though I appreciate the idea that he's done poorly to make the team competitive in the meantime.

I mean most people thought 16-17 would be the turnaround year. Now Botts has had the team for multiple years, and here we are.

I'd guess the pitch he's selling is 3 things:

1) Culture. We've seen it with the bills. They think as long as they bring in good people who want to play in Buffalo and work hard, they'll be successful. Not only is this untrue, but its ironic how much its backfired with 2 players quitting their respective teams mid-season/mid-game.

2) Speed. Because Botts has seen teams have successful seasons with a lot of speed, he thinks its the answer. Judging by his roster moves he thinks once he gets 18 fast skaters the team will win.

3. Development. Guentzal spent extra time in the minors and did well in the NHL, so naturally we'll hold everyone down to "develop" and they'll turn out the same way.

 

[Jim Bob]

Why is DOR probably gone? I understand he, Asplund and Olofsson have been one doozy of a line this year. That's a good spot for him to be in.

DOR is a Group VI UFA after this season and my guess is that he won't re-sign with the Sabres.

UPL is the goalie of the future. That's likely not a part of the two year plan, but it's definitely the long term plan. Ullmark and Hutton aren't cutting the mustard but Ullmark is likely staying for the duration and who knows how they'll be if the team in front of them is ever actually legitimately good.

Goalie development is far from a given and it will probably be 2021-22 or later before UPL is making a difference at the NHL level.

I'd also suspect Borgen, Smith are on the list with a shot to make the team as spots open, Swede's aside.

Borgen was an oversight on my part.

I think it will be interesting to see how much of a shot Smith gets moving forward.

Overall, next season will be interesting to see if any of these guys graduate to the Sabres and make any sort of dent in helping resolve the depth issues.

But, if Housley is the coach, will he even give them a shot over the Sobotkas and Scandellas?

 

[Dreakon13]

I mean most people thought 16-17 would be the turnaround year. Now Botts has had the team for multiple years, and here we are.

Nothing about building a winning club is set is stone or guaranteed to work. It wasn't in 16/17, and it isn't in 20/21. That's just how it looks to me with the way the majority of these contracts Botts has signed/acquired are terming out.

 

[jc17]

Nothing about building a winning club is set is stone or guaranteed to work. It wasn't in 16/17, and it isn't in 20/21. That's just how it looks to me with the way the majority of these contracts Botts has signed/acquired are terming out.

It could be. Just seems like for the past 5 years we've been saying success is 2 years down the road

 

[OkimLom]

I mean most people thought 16-17 would be the turnaround year. Now Botts has had the team for multiple years, and here we are.

I'd guess the pitch he's selling is 3 things:

1) Culture. We've seen it with the bills. They think as long as they bring in good people who want to play in Buffalo and work hard, they'll be successful. Not only is this untrue, but its ironic how much its backfired with 2 players quitting their respective teams mid-season/mid-game.

2) Speed. Because Botts has seen teams have successful seasons with a lot of speed, he thinks its the answer. Judging by his roster moves he thinks once he gets 18 fast skaters the team will win.

3. Development. Guentzal spent extra time in the minors and did well in the NHL, so naturally we'll hold everyone down to "develop" and they'll turn out the same way.

And he hasn’t followed through consistently with any of these points.

 

[Duddy]

I bet Jack is thrilled knowing Botts is going to punt next season.
You waste season after season while you have a franchise center and now a franchise defender. And we do that to wait on lesser talent to arrive, instead of getting quality filler vets that could at least get us to the playoffs while we wait.

Oh happy day

 

[Chainshot]

I bet Jack is thrilled knowing Botts is going to punt next season.
You waste season after season while you have a franchise center and now a franchise defender. And we do that to wait on lesser talent to arrive, instead of getting quality filler vets that could at least get us to the playoffs while we wait.

Oh happy day

I've mentioned it before, but this wheel-spinning is going to alienate other members of the team sooner rather than later. At some point someone is going to want to leave in much the same way O'Reilly did. Ignoring personal dynamics is no way to build a winning team, especially when giving lip service to the importance of doing things the right way / culture.

 

[Dreakon13]

I bet Jack is thrilled knowing Botts is going to punt next season.
You waste season after season while you have a franchise center and now a franchise defender. And we do that to wait on lesser talent to arrive, instead of getting quality filler vets that could at least get us to the playoffs while we wait.

Oh happy day

I've mentioned it before, but this wheel-spinning is going to alienate other members of the team sooner rather than later. At some point someone is going to want to leave in much the same way O'Reilly did. Ignoring personal dynamics is no way to build a winning team, especially when giving lip service to the importance of doing things the right way / culture.

I think the idea that reinforcements are coming between now and 20/21 is easier to sell (likely selling to the players too in their end of the year interviews) with the Amerks playing well this year. Wheel-spinning is one thing but there is an endgame to this. Whether or not it works is another question.

If that's the case, I think Jack needs to focus more on leading this team today, than worrying about who may or may not be on it two years from now. That's not his job. It wasn't ROR's job either.