News Article: Adam Gretz (NBC Sports) - Sabres' Rebuild Is Still Going Nowhere

[SnuggaRUDE]

Wow. People seem to have short memories.

As I get older I realize how much of the world is built on the mentality of those who sell comic books and professional wrestling. Nothing longer than 5 years ago happened as anything more than a wink to some members of the audience.

 

[SnuggaRUDE]

I'm looking at the heavily praised Rochester squad and I certainly see a whole bunch of Murray's guys there. Almost like it was Regier who ****ed up the pipeline.

Murray's highest scoring AHL acquisition is Matt Moulson.

 

[OkimLom]

All is forgiven, or is there still 11M of Okposo and Moulson?

Well seeing as Okposo and Moulson were signed here for support leadership roles, with Okposo a top 6 guy (was playing at a 57 point pace his first year here under a terrible coach/system), at the time they were not bad team building moves. I didn't like the Okposo signing at the time, but for a team that needed leadership badly, hence the acquisitions of Gorges and Gionta as well, I was okay. then Okposo showed chemistry with ROR and played well with Reinhart as well. Then he got sick. And on top of, again, bad coaching decisions, and what appears to be a starting of the downhill of his career, it's looking like a blackhole of a contract.

 

[Dreakon13]

Two years on the job, one decent trade to his name, terrible NHL development decisions for key future players, poor trade returns and a lack of ability to sign, trade, or claim any sort of useful depth all the while having an unqualified, under-experienced head coach... is it any wonder that they are were they are? Not really.

Until the under-experienced head coach part, I couldn't tell if this was about Murray or Botteril. Honestly, I'm still doubting myself a little.

 

[SnuggaRUDE]

Well seeing as Okposo and Moulson were signed here for support leadership roles, with Okposo a top 6 guy (was playing at a 57 point pace his first year here under a terrible coach/system), at the time they were not bad team building moves. I didn't like the Okposo signing at the time, but for a team that needed leadership badly, hence the acquisitions of Gorges and Gionta as well, I was okay. then Okposo showed chemistry with ROR and played well with Reinhart as well. Then he got sick. And on top of, again, bad coaching decisions, and what appears to be a starting of the downhill of his career, it's looking like a blackhole of a contract.

It was a blackhole at the time. Although the brightest black hole of a particularly crappy 2016 vintage. The Moulson signing was a headscratcher; then and now.

 

[CatsforReinhart]

I'm looking at the heavily praised Rochester squad and I certainly see a whole bunch of Murray's guys there. Almost like it was Regier who ****ed up the pipeline.

He traded away the talent and got 1sts. Also we were drafting much higher along with video scouting.
Not attached to the first point
Anything Regier has done would be long gone from Rochester by now.

 

[SnuggaRUDE]

He traded away the talent and got 1sts. Also we were drafting much higher along with video scouting.
Not attached to the first point
Anything Regier has done would be long gone from Rochester by now.

Well almost long gone, Sean Malone is still soldiering on. Baptise and Bailey were the real last hurrah.

 

[dotcommunism]

Murray's highest scoring AHL acquisition is Matt Moulson.

This is honestly an impressive display of bad faith. Matt Moulson is a star in the AHL and is also completely irrelevant to discussing the prospects on the Amerks.

 

[SnuggaRUDE]

This is honestly an impressive display of bad faith. Matt Moulson is a star in the AHL and is also completely irrelevant to discussing the prospects on the Amerks.

In that case the entire concept of AHL team success was brought up in bad faith given we're talking about an article on NHL team performance. There is no statistical correlation between AHL success in an organization and success for the parent club; none at all.

Brought up as a canard to deflect blame from the state Murray left the franchise and place it at the current, and underwhelming, GM.

EDIT: and Regier for not having more 24 year olds on the Amerks I guess?

 

[SnuggaRUDE]

Until the under-experienced head coach part, I couldn't tell if this was about Murray or Botteril. Honestly, I'm still doubting myself a little.

I'm also reading this and trying to remember if Murray had one decent trade. That'd be a fun Sabres party game "Vague Description: Botteril or Murray".

 

[OkimLom]

It was a blackhole at the time. Although the brightest black hole of a particularly crappy 2016 vintage. The Moulson signing was a headscratcher; then and now.

Again, Moulson was signed for leadership purposes, and worked well as him and Jack seemed to have a good connection on and off the ice. The amount might have been a little high and term maybe too long, but the purpose of the signing was working.

 

[OkimLom]

I'm also reading this and trying to remember if Murray had one decent trade. That'd be a fun Sabres party game "Vague Description: Botteril or Murray".

Seeing as fans have subjective standards for decent trades, and subjective points of views of why the trade was done, I think you could find people that think Tim had some decent trades.

 

[Buff15Sabres]

Darcy burnt the team to the ground in an effort to stockpile draft picks.

Murray burnt the draft picks to the ground in an effort to accelerate the rebuild

Botts burnt Murray's acquisitions to get depth

Two of those three efforts failed. Meanwhile no one has found a coach who wasn't a disaster.

I think that's the perfect summation of our GM/coach situation since 2014.

 

[SnuggaRUDE]

Seeing as fans have subjective standards for decent trades, and subjective points of views of why the trade was done, I think you could find people that think Tim had some decent trades.

I'd play that game.

My Favorite Murray trade was Christ Stewart for a 2nd. What was everyone's favorite?

EDIT: I'll take that back, the Miller trade was much better. That was a good trade by any metric.

 

[SnuggaRUDE]

Again, Moulson was signed for leadership purposes, and worked well as him and Jack seemed to have a good connection on and off the ice. The amount might have been a little high and term maybe too long, but the purpose of the signing was working.

They've buried him for nearly 40% of the contract length. That's a very low bar for working.

 

[Buff15Sabres]

Seeing as fans have subjective standards for decent trades, and subjective points of views of why the trade was done, I think you could find people that think Tim had some decent trades.

The RoR acquisition and subsequent contract was probably fair value / decent.
Mike Weber for a 3rd was a great trade!

Those are the only "decent" trades I can think of. Murray had a bad habit of overpaying when acquiring players. That's OK if the players work out, but they didn't work out.

 

[Doug Prishpreed]

I'm also reading this and trying to remember if Murray had one decent trade. That'd be a fun Sabres party game "Vague Description: Botteril or Murray".

I guess we’re back to non-stop trolling from you

 

[Aladyyn]

The RoR acquisition and subsequent contract was probably fair value / decent.
Mike Weber for a 3rd was a great trade!

Those are the only "decent" trades I can think of. Murray had a bad habit of overpaying when acquiring players. That's OK if the players work out, but they didn't work out.

Ok so Murray and Botterill have the same track record but Murray's teams were better. Good talk.

 

[kp2575]

I'm looking at the heavily praised Rochester squad and I certainly see a whole bunch of Murray's guys there. Almost like it was Regier who ****ed up the pipeline.

They both did, this franchise hasn't drafted and developed properly in a decade. Plenty of blame to go around.

 

[Buff15Sabres]

Ok so Murray and Botterill have the same track record but Murray's teams were better. Good talk.

To be clear, I think they both suck as GM's. My opinion on Murray isn't going to change, but Botterill still has a (small) chance to turn things around.

 

[enthusiast]

If Tim Murray was adjudged to have done a good job here he'd have a job now elsewhere.

Regier holds some responsibility for successes 05-11, and scruples if the John Scott story is to be believed, but the same holds true for him.

 

[OkimLom]

They've buried him for nearly 40% of the contract length. That's a very low bar for working.

That's why I said it WAS working, and THEY is Botterill.

 

[sabremike]

If Tim Murray was adjudged to have done a good job here he'd have a job now elsewhere.

Regier holds some responsibility for successes 05-11, and scruples if the John Scott story is to be believed, but the same holds true for him.

What is the John Scott story?

 

[slip]

What is the John Scott story?

Think "Rudy," but hockey.

 

[sabremike]

Think "Rudy," but hockey.

I know his story in general but was just wondering what Darcy's involvment was?

 

[slip]

I know his story in general but was just wondering what Darcy's involvment was?

Sorry man I wasn't being too serious.