Player Discussion Aatu Raty

[ChilliBilly]

Would love to see a Hoglander-Raty-Podkolzin as a staple line in the AHL for the rest of this year. A 2 game stint for that line in the NHL would be fun. It likely won’t happen, and probably shouldn’t, but it would be fun.

Podkolzin has 95 gp and 29 its.
Hoglander has 141 gp and 54 pts
Raty has 12 gp and 4 pts

It wouldn't be unreasonable at all to seem them tried out in the NHL. Because we need some bodies, what with Horvat Mikheyev Lockwood and Pearson on LTIR. And it wouldn't hurt to try them together.

 

[Nucker101]

“damn I could get used to this once I’m a full time Islander”

*checks phone*

“Oh”

 

[iceburg]

Podkolzin has 95 gp and 29 its.
Hoglander has 141 gp and 54 pts
Raty has 12 gp and 4 pts

It wouldn't be unreasonable at all to seem them tried out in the NHL. Because we need some bodies, what with Horvat Mikheyev Lockwood and Pearson on LTIR. And it wouldn't hurt to try them together.

I can definitely see them as the “kid” line that could play together for years to come. I would just be a little cautious so they’re put in the best position to succeed.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

I don't know what's so controversial about that statement. It's actually a compliment, really.

Raty was considered a potential #1 overall pick and future star at age 16-17. Then his stock absolutely crashed in his draft year. Since then, he's built himself back into a pretty good prospect with a substantially lower upside than originally thought but has added some physicality and defensive play and improved work rate to project into a different sort of player.



This is pretty much a pure rebuild trade, no? Biggest asset was a draft pick. Other asset was a young AHL prospect.



Yeah, I'll grant that Raty might have a bit more offensive upside as a north-south winger where his skating is a bit less of a thing and his shot might play up. His skillset is actually fairly similar to a young Tanner Pearson.

Oh yeah its a rebuild move. I just think they might have been able to get more value in if they were willing to take a younger less known commodity. Räty is more of a low ceiling low floor type of player.

 

[Horvat1C]

And Cirelli was paid $4.8M AAV on a 3 year bridge and will be making $6.25M AAV over 8 years going forward. Would you re-sign Horvat to a 8x $6.25M AAV deal if he was a 20 goal 40 point C?

Obviously we are talking about different players here. Cirelli is really good defensively and capable of being an elite shutdown C. That’s where his value comes from. I just think that on a team other than a high octane offensive juggernaut it’s hard to pay a guy like Cirelli that kind of money and win the Cup.

We had a similar discussion when Daneault was a UFA. I don’t remember anyone of us wanting to pay him what he got from LA because we were concerned about his offensive production going forward.

Regardless none of this matters. If Raty develops into a player where we are debating whether to pay him big money then he would be a significant asset.

It completely depends on where we are as a team. If we are pushing upwards or even competing for Cups, then absolutely we keep Cirelli. If we are entering or already in a rebuild/retool then he might be worth the assets we get for him or simply the cap space. The point is Cirelli fits in Tampa's system like a glove and has become irreplaceable there despite his lack of production, its possible that management feels that Raty will be similar here even if its as a staple 3C rather than a 2C.

LA got Danault because they were building to be better and start competing. Montreal let Danault go because they were ready to slow down and stop competing. It doesn't have much to do with how much offence he puts up because the value that those kind of players provide shows up everywhere else on your team.

 

[pitseleh]

Oh yeah its a rebuild move. I just think they might have been able to get more value in if they were willing to take a younger less known commodity. Räty is more of a low ceiling low floor type of player.

You’re probably right on Raty but my guess is that the team is much higher on him than most. This trade needs to be evaluated based on whether that is right or not.

 

[ChilliBilly]

It completely depends on where we are as a team. If we are pushing upwards or even competing for Cups, then absolutely we keep Cirelli. If we are entering or already in a rebuild/retool then he might be worth the assets we get for him or simply the cap space. The point is Cirelli fits in Tampa's system like a glove and has become irreplaceable there despite his lack of production, its possible that management feels that Raty will be similar here even if its as a staple 3C rather than a 2C.

LA got Danault because they were building to be better and start competing. Montreal let Danault go because they were ready to slow down and stop competing. It doesn't have much to do with how much offence he puts up because the value that those kind of players provide shows up everywhere else on your team.

I actually expect us to play decently next year. We have a decent core. Losing Demko probably cost us a shot at the playoffs. And the incredible horrible start, winless in 7, where we were up multiple goals in 5 - 6 of those games. I expect that Podz, Hoggy and Ratman will all be playing for the Canucks next year. Maybe together, maybe not.

Sure, we need another D man. But we are a better team than our position in the standings shows. Hopefully we will keep losing, and win part of the lottery. Lots of high end talent available.

 

[Nucker101]

You’re probably right on Raty but my guess is that the team is much higher on him than most. This trade needs to be evaluated based on whether that is right or not.

Yeah I think that’s where the disconnect is. They probably see Raty as a solid future 2C

 

[sting101]

It's really gonna depend on his work ethic. Raty has a lot of upside

This #2 #3 argument he will decide. I dont for a minute think a player on his trajectory and from what ive seen is gonna bust or be a Lammikko. He's had a significant impact even in just 12 games.

16 shots on 25 shot attempts
35w 32L on faceoffs 52%
17 hits 4 blocks 4 takeaways
all in 8:46 minutes of ice time

Anyway many a player has had a good boost by getting called up and trying to make an impression but Raty will be a good NHLer if his head is screwed on straight.

His upside to me is somewhere around Hintz and Eriksson Ek

 

[Vector]

Scott Wheeler had Raty as the Islander's #1 prospect. As a team, they finished one spot ahead of the Canucks in their rankings.

After an excellent post-draft season got Raty’s to-that-point up-and-down career back on track, he has been effective without being a star in his jump to the AHL. Considering his age, that’s a good place to start. When he plays intentionally, keeps his feet moving, and stays between the dots to play a give-and-go game that drives downhill, he’s an impressive player. His skating has progressed nicely, to the point where he can put pro defenders on their heels and consistently enter the zone with control in the middle third. When the north-south game isn’t there, he has begun to see the ice and make players through layers with more regularity. Confidence has always played a big role in his play and as he gets more comfortable at the AHL level I expect him to grab hold of it and progress to a career as a top-nine NHL forward. He may not become a star, but he’s got pro tools (including size, quick hands, and a decently hard though at times overrated shot). Slowly but surely he has learned to hang onto the puck when necessary and play quick when required. He’s not smart enough to drive a line by himself or make plays when he’s less involved, so linemates will play a factor in his success, but on the whole, and with the right development, I believe he’ll provide value as a No. 52 pick.

---

Here's Dayal on Raty.

Interestingly, many people had varying degrees of concern that Räty might be a more effective winger than he is a centre. The question for that surrounds his skating — he can charge down the ice once he’s picked up steam but lacks explosive acceleration — and a lack of high-end hockey sense which could impede his ability to drive a line from the middle. Räty’s made progress with his skating but some still wonder what position he’ll be most effective at.

One NHL director of amateur scouting, who was granted anonymity because he’s not permitted to speak about players on other teams, said that he “likes him better at wing” even though he’s a fan of Räty overall.

...

“I definitely would hope that we continue to work with him in the middle,” said Allvin. “The games I’ve seen with him up in New York, he’s been playing centre there — very, very responsible 200-foot game.”

---

Daily Faceoff:

From a skill perspective, Raty has a lot to get excited about. He has excellent vision, which allows him to find scoring lanes through traffic and without taking his eyes off the puck much. Raty is an excellent puck controller and few AHLers have the release that he does. He’s got a good frame that allows him to hold his own offensively, but he puts the muscle into the shot and his awareness away from the puck is one of the things that really took off in his final year playing in Finland. When he’s really determined to score, Raty can wow you with some incredible, quick, deceptive moves. It’s something he’s put on display a few times this season.


“There’s still some raw elements to his game, but he has come a long way the past two years,” a scout said. “And his potential keeps rising.”

The biggest knock against his game, though, is his skating. It’s choppy, never hits a high top speed and his acceleration lacks, especially in short foot races. That’s something that proper coaching will help fix in the NHL. So the fact that he does enough of the offensive side things well, that’s manageable. And while his defensive play is a bit more consistent than it was a few years ago, he still gets beat a bit too often in his own zone in the AHL. But, again, that’s something good coaching can work with him on.

...

Raty isn’t going to be a superstar. Even if he lived up to early predictions, Raty was never going to be a major game-changer or play-driver. But he can be a considerable middle-six option, and that’s valuable, too.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

You’re probably right on Raty but my guess is that the team is much higher on him than most. This trade needs to be evaluated based on whether that is right or not.

I think you are right.

And it feels pretty cool to have a management team where I much rather believe their opinion than my own.

 

[RutherPlan]

His skating is an issue.

Offensive creativity too.

Unless he can improve his skating he projects more as a winger.


edit. I realise it sounds like Im really down on him. I am not. Its just that as a return for Horvat on torrid pace... his ceiling is low.

Will be interesting to see if our newly revamped development team can help Räty improve.

Skating generally improves with training, he's only 20 years old and still developing. Let's also not get carried away with his skating either, he can skate effectively and can actually break away from the defensive zone. What matters is IQ, if you have have high hockey IQ then you can make yourself seem faster by moving the puck efficicently.

Raty has zero issues on offensive creativity, he's known to have an incredibly powerful shot, deceptive stick handling, and is more of a playmaker throughout his career.

 

[Frankie Blueberries]

The jury seems to still be somewhat out on Raty, but we can at least rest assured that he is not in the same vein as Vey, Baertschi, Pouliot, Clendening, Larsen, Granlund, Dahlen, Goldobin, etc. Praise be fairly competent management!

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

because one never knows who will magically develop into a markus naslund or ryan kesler or bo horvat, i am holding out hope that raty levels back to his junior potential and becomes bertuzzi, the mid-first rounder becomes bryan mccabe, and bo v.a., whoever the f*** that is, becomes jarkko ruutu and provides endless lolz.

then at some point, hopefully when the nucleus of demko, hughes, and petey are signed and solidified, we trade new bert and new caber for two hall of fame mvp finalists to fill out our juggernaut.

could happen right?

 

[krutovsdonut]

His skating is an issue.

Offensive creativity too.

Unless he can improve his skating he projects more as a winger.


edit. I realise it sounds like Im really down on him. I am not. Its just that as a return for Horvat on torrid pace... his ceiling is low.

Will be interesting to see if our newly revamped development team can help Räty improve.

i am not seeing any lack of creativity from highlight videos. he seems poised. the skating is awkward big man stride but he's not quite as slow as he looks. he shows some waterbug lateral mobility within the o zone which surprised me. he uses big man protecting the puck with his reach rather than speed.

reading about him, it sounds like karpat liiga coaching wrongly pegged him as a big north south forechecking winger and completely stifled him. when he moved to jukerit he went from 1 assist in 6 games to ppg with a 2:1 assist to goal ratio. maybe he was benefitting from good linemates but he did the same assist ratio at the wjc and he is getting assists at bridgeport. he can pass the puck.

my comparison to a canuck would be linus karlsson with more size and a better shot. it will be interesting to see how they play together. a qualifier raty's shot is very good but it looks like he only has one quite readable and not super fast wrist shot release and i have not seen a one timer or backhand goal in his highlights.

one other comment is he looks really big in highlights. he stands pretty erect and keeps his head up. looks hard to knock over.

 

[Bobby9]

future of Raty and Lekkermaki on the wings. Doesn’t inspire much confidence

 

[pitseleh]

because one never knows who will magically develop into a markus naslund or ryan kesler or bo horvat, i am holding out hope that raty levels back to his junior potential and becomes bertuzzi, the mid-first rounder becomes bryan mccabe, and bo v.a., whoever the f*** that is, becomes jarkko ruutu and provides endless lolz.

then at some point, hopefully when the nucleus of demko, hughes, and petey are signed and solidified, we trade new bert and new caber for two hall of fame mvp finalists to fill out our juggernaut.

could happen right?

Raty sounds pretty similar to Ruutu by my ear so you’re like half way there on that one.

 

[sting101]

Skating generally improves with training, he's only 20 years old and still developing. Let's also not get carried away with his skating either, he can skate effectively and can actually break away from the defensive zone. What matters is IQ, if you have have high hockey IQ then you can make yourself seem faster by moving the puck efficicently.

Raty has zero issues on offensive creativity, he's known to have an incredibly powerful shot, deceptive stick handling, and is more of a playmaker throughout his career.

I've seen him a bunch and i would say his skating has plus potential to be honest. Has long legs and good edges just needs more leg drive and to lengthen it out. against his peers he's always been one of the best skaters on the ice. If he gets into the gym and works with a skating coach to make his stride more efficient he will be a very good skater imo

Honestly not concerned about it at all. He just cant get lazy and think he doesn't have to put in the work. It's incredibly important from 18-23 that athletes take advantage of the bodies growth potential. His frame is impressive and has a lot of potential

 

[wonton15]

He seems like a good kid from his first interview with our media. He understands skating is his weakness and knows his strengths/weaknesses. I'm very excited to watch Hoglander-Raty-Podkolzin at some point

 

[MS]

He seems like a good kid from his first interview with our media. He understands skating is his weakness and knows his strengths/weaknesses. I'm very excited to watch Hoglander-Raty-Podkolzin at some point

Raty and Podkolzin look like potentially 2/3 of a heavy shutdown line.

Hoglander ... man. I've been so disappointed by what I've seen from him since going down to Abbotsford. I'm not optimistic about him right now.

 

[m9]

Raty and Podkolzin look like potentially 2/3 of a heavy shutdown line.

Hoglander ... man. I've been so disappointed by what I've seen from him since going down to Abbotsford. I'm not optimistic about him right now.

Not the right thread obviously, but that sucks with Hoglander. That was my concern with sending him & Rathbone down there - if it went poorly their asset value would wilt down to nothing so you might be better of cutting bait and moving on before that happened. This is a long enough track record with Hoglander now to be concerned he's ever a useful NHL player.

 

[nucksflailtogether]

Raty and Podkolzin look like potentially 2/3 of a heavy shutdown line.

Hoglander ... man. I've been so disappointed by what I've seen from him since going down to Abbotsford. I'm not optimistic about him right now.

That's so messed. I thought he was looking pretty good in the games I saw earlier this year.

 

[MS]

That's so messed. I thought he was looking pretty good in the games I saw earlier this year.

Hoglander's skating and puckhandling is terrific at this level.

But you know all the stuff that JT Miller does that drives people nuts? Put that on steroids while playing at a lower level. Right now he just looks like an incredibly dumb player. Explosively skate through the neutral zone ... take a low percentage shot attempt. Have a guy wide open ... stickhandle into to traffic. Make a behind-the-back pass to nobody to spring an odd-man rush the other way. Take a selfish penalty. Take a dumb shot on the PP that misses the net and clears the zone. Poor effort on backchecks. Plays in spurts - and those spurts can be impressive and dynamic - and then coasts for long periods.

There's talent there, but this stretch in the AHL has highlighted to me that this is a much more flawed player than I previously thought who is much further from being a contributing NHLer than I had reckoned.

 

[nucksflailtogether]

Hoglander's skating and puckhandling is terrific at this level.

But you know all the stuff that JT Miller does that drives people nuts? Put that on steroids while playing at a lower level. Right now he just looks like an incredibly dumb player. Explosively skate through the neutral zone ... take a low percentage shot attempt. Have a guy wide open ... stickhandle into to traffic. Make a behind-the-back pass to nobody to spring an odd-man rush the other way. Take a selfish penalty. Take a dumb shot on the PP that misses the net and clears the zone. Poor effort on backchecks. Plays in spurts - and those spurts can be impressive and dynamic - and then coasts for long periods.

There's talent there, but this stretch in the AHL has highlighted to me that this is a much more flawed player than I previously thought who is much further from being a contributing NHLer than I had reckoned.

Its too bad he can't convert his game to a skilled grinder at the NHL level. I wonder if he's just lost confidence and now he's having attitude issues and reverting back to what made him successful at lower levels, which of course doesn't work here.

 

[MS]

Its too bad he can't convert his game to a skilled grinder at the NHL level. I wonder if he's just lost confidence and now he's having attitude issues and reverting back to what made him successful at lower levels, which of course doesn't work here.

He'd definitely lost confidence in the NHL.

To me the AHL stint has worked to get his confidence back ... but unfortunately a confident Hoglander is playing an extremely individualistic game of the sort that doesn't work well within the framework of a good line and a good system. And he's talented enough that he'll produce points in the AHL playing like this. But I can't project this sort of play back into being an effective middle-6 winger if the team calls him back up.

Podkolzin, on the other hand, is looking more confident and skating better and has cleaned up some of the slop in his game that was obvious when he first got to Abbotsford, and does look like someone who you could put on an effective NHL 3rd line right now.