Value of: A Ducks D-man to the Leafs

[evnted]

I'd honestly just do Vatanen for Henrique.

glad i popped in this thread. where do i sign?

 

[Crosbysux]

unless we hear something from TSN, I wouldn't personally bet on anything. Probably just there to keep tabs on possible players. Vatanen wasnt that good last night either

Vatanen is also playing through injury. He may have been injured all year. If you watched him play, he wasn't carrying the puck up ice or even shooting it as well as he had. Not saying that is a for sure, could have just had a down year, but when your playing style changes drastically, it's typically a good indication something is bothering a player. He's carrying the puck much better up the ice towards the end of the regular season and even shooting more, so maybe the early season thing, whatever it was, shook off. He got hurt early in the post season, so it's no doubt why he's not up to full speed. Regardless of his down year, he has shown what he is capable of at the NHL level. He's a legit top 4 offensive puck moving dman, who is also good on both special teams. His value is going to be high regardless of a down year.

 

[liquiduck]

Efficacy is not the same thing as play style. I said early on in the discussion that Vatanen's instincts were more honed than Montour's are. And no, it's just a matter of being out of position. Like Cam, Montour plays a more aggressive game in the defensive zone, both for the good and the bad. Vatenen on the other hand plays more conservatively with everyone. Like Fowler, Montour is looking to challenge players for the puck more than to block shots. Like Vatanen, when it's below the crease Montour looks to mix it up physically to win the puck battles.

Weirdly, you seem to be describing a player that isn't identical. Maybe you were just being hyperbolic. Either way, this conversation has gone on long enough and I feel my point has been made. Have the last word.

No, who you play with does matter.. A lot. Pair Vatanen with Stoner and Montour with Fowler and where you find them on the ice drastically changes. I guarantee you we would not see Vatanen playing a " more conservative game" paired with Stoner. I could also guarantee you Fowler would spend a whole lot more time parked in front of the net if he was paired with Montour. Fowler is certainly not the more aggressive higher risk player in the defensive zone than Fowler is. The normally aggressive high risk player that you're referring to here fits Vatanen to a tee, who is the higher risk player than fowler all over the ice. The reason you see Vatanen parked in front when paired with Fowler is because sadly he's better at defending the front of the net than Cam is.

To use the tone you like to use:
"I also find it odd" that in one post you state Montour has superior hockey sense and " reads the game faster than Vatanen" and that's why he more closely matches Fowler's play. Then, in the very next post you state "Vatanen has better instincts" than Montour. Makes sense.

But I agree, this conversation has gone on long enough, since all you have managed to accomplish is to repeatedly contradict yourself and backtrack while arguing against a commonly accepted point of view, even amongst ducks fans. .

 

[oooooooooohCanada]

More fire.. Babcock and Lou were at game 4.

 

[Smif]

It's Vatanen, no doubt. Just hope the 17th isn't involved.

 

[34]

It's Vatanen, no doubt. Just hope the 17th isn't involved.

Highly doubt it. Toronto will draft the best available player with that 1st.

 

[oooooooooohCanada]

It's Vatanen, no doubt. Just hope the 17th isn't involved.

Gotta think its a 17 or Kapanen deal with potential +s. An expansion exempt impact player is exactly what the Ducks would be looking for. Kap can instantly step into their roster next year and contribute. Possible JVR could be involved if Bieksa is willing to waive allowing them to do 7/3/1 but Ducks fan don't want him I dont think.

 

[The Duck Knight]

Gotta think its a 17 or Kapanen deal with potential +s. An expansion exempt impact player is exactly what the Ducks would be looking for. Kap can instantly step into their roster next year and contribute. Possible JVR could be involved if Bieksa is willing to waive allowing them to do 7/3/1 but Ducks fan don't want him I dont think.

We only have 6 forwards we need to protect anyways. Getz/Perry/Kesler/Silf/Rakell/Cogs

JVR would work if not for the fact we wouldn't be able to afford to re-sign him.

Either the Leafs are looking at a guy like Thompson for free agency or Vatanen in a trade.

 

[OVO16]

We only have 6 forwards we need to protect anyways. Getz/Perry/Kesler/Silf/Rakell/Cogs

JVR would work if not for the fact we wouldn't be able to afford to re-sign him.

Either the Leafs are looking at a guy like Thompson for free agency or Vatanen in a trade.

I think both. Babcock said he was looking for a "heavier" player. Thompson is a cheaper option than Brian Boyle.

 

[Smif]

We only have 6 forwards we need to protect anyways. Getz/Perry/Kesler/Silf/Rakell/Cogs

JVR would work if not for the fact we wouldn't be able to afford to re-sign him.

Either the Leafs are looking at a guy like Thompson for free agency or Vatanen in a trade.

While we might be interested in Thompson for FA, there's no way your GM and head coach go to a game to scout a 4C... multiple games now actually.

 

[The Man with a Plan]

While we might be interested in Thompson for FA, there's no way your GM and head coach go to a game to scout a 4C... multiple games now actually.

Maybe... just maybe they are two guys who are enjoying the perk of being able to watch two great teams go to war?

 

[Man Bear Pig]

It's Vatanen, no doubt. Just hope the 17th isn't involved.

I'd rather it be 17 than Kapanen. I really hope they aren't dumb enough to deal a player like him unless it's in a bigger deal with a #1 D headed our way.

 

[Murzu]

Lindholm for Marner seems like a fair blockbuster.

 

[Halla]

We only have 6 forwards we need to protect anyways. Getz/Perry/Kesler/Silf/Rakell/Cogs

JVR would work if not for the fact we wouldn't be able to afford to re-sign him.

Either the Leafs are looking at a guy like Thompson for free agency or Vatanen in a trade.

Lou and Babcock werent there to scout Nate Thompson c'mon now

 

[Halla]

Lindholm for Marner seems like a fair blockbuster.

marner is the least likely player not named auston matthews to get dealt from toronto.

 

[The Duck Knight]

Lou and Babcock werent there to scout Nate Thompson c'mon now

I realize how unlikely that is, but it's not like they have anywhere else to be. And tons of Leafs fans have sworn up and down that Vatanen isn't a fit so.......

 

[Halla]

I realize how unlikely that is, but it's not like they have anywhere else to be. And tons of Leafs fans have sworn up and down that Vatanen isn't a fit so.......

they know about as much as the ducks fans who assume vatanen, and not manson or fowler is gonna be the one moved.

 

[Murzu]

marner is the least likely player not named auston matthews to get dealt from toronto.

I know. It's 23yo 1st pairing LD with great contract you'd get tho. IMO this would make your team better now and for the future.

Ana can take this hit to their D to get 1st line winger on an ELC.

But it's just my opinion. I'm fan of neither team.

 

[Halla]

I know. It's 23yo 1st pairing LD with great contract you'd get tho. IMO this would make your team better now and for the future.

Ana can take this hit to their D to get 1st line winger on an ELC.

But it's just my opinion. I'm fan of neither team.

If he was a right hand shot i'd agree.

I've been high on marner since he was the best player at 17 on a team that included a 19 year old max domi . I think if the leafs have to part with marner to get a dman, they would rather just draft and develop their own player. this team has a pretty good window to be great. 5+ years or so, no rush

 

[Murzu]

If he was a right hand shot i'd agree.

I've been high on marner since he was the best player at 17 on a team that included a 19 year old max domi . I think if the leafs have to part with marner to get a dman, they would rather just draft and develop their own player. this team has a pretty good window to be great. 5+ years or so, no rush

True, you aren't particularly on rush there. But I believe that TML should trade one of their big three OR make a great package and trade for great D prospect/young D.

D take longer to develop, so assuming you don't make trades and just draft D men you'll have a forward core in their prime when the D are just starting to enter the NHL. When the drafted D reach their potential after a few years in NHL (~5+ years from draft) you have a forward core that is in the later stages of their prime.

Drafting/Getting D men first and then focusing on F gives a longer window for a team. That is just how I see things, and your core forwards will be great players for 10 years+ from this moment anyway. So like we agreed, no rush. But without trades, TML should go defense with first round picks for a few years IMO.

I've been watching a team with great fw core (it was awesome when we had Stastny&ROR, still have good pieces tho) that had suboptimal D core, it isn't how championships are won.

 

[Puckstuff]

We only have 6 forwards we need to protect anyways. Getz/Perry/Kesler/Silf/Rakell/Cogs

JVR would work if not for the fact we wouldn't be able to afford to re-sign him.

Either the Leafs are looking at a guy like Thompson for free agency or Vatanen in a trade.

Will the Ducks even protect Perry?

Calling it now, they won't.

 

[Vancouver Canucks]

Why would Gardiner be on the block, if the Leafs need more defensemen?

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

Will the Ducks even protect Perry?

Calling it now, they won't.

We have too, unless he waives

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

Lindholm for Marner seems like a fair blockbuster.

Might be okat value but no way anaheim moves lindholm

 

[Vancouver Canucks]

We have too, unless he waives

So, the exemption for players with either NTC or NMC?