Player Discussion #93 - Sam Bennett

[Baxterman]

What the ****? Seriously, this narrative is actually starting to anger me. Gulu didn't ruin tkachuk or Monahan or Gaudreau or anyone else, but Bennett must have some unlocked potential right? HE WILL NEVER BE AN NHL CENTRE! Yes, it truely sucks, but he simply doesn't have the hockey iq. Hopefully he can be a decent top 6 winger, but even I'm not sure anymore.

That's that narrative that you are sick of?

I will take OKG overrating Bennett 100 days a week over his stupid Monahan is not a good center narrative.

At least the overrating of Bennett can be blamed on homerism the Monahan is a bad center crap is just flat out crazy.

 

[super6646]

That's that narrative that you are sick of?

I will take OKG overrating Bennett 100 days a week over his stupid Monahan is not a good center narrative.

At least the overrating of Bennett can be blamed on homerism the Monahan is a bad center crap is just flat out crazy.

Right... well it's pretty stupid either way. Bennett will likely never live up to his drsft hype, while Monahan has exceeding my expectations and is a solid but discrete #1 centre. Anyone saying otherwise is lying.

 

[Lunatik]

I’m getting really angry with people saying Bennett is dumb and can’t play C. The only thing Bennett didn’t do very well playing C was put up points. Had he scored more, no one would be talking about his IQ. Bennett has the on ice vision and hands that really only come second to Gaudreau. Taking a penalty out of frustration doesn’t mean you lack IQ. It means you lack discipline lol. His problem is confidence, let’s hope Peters can restore that in him. I think the only other thing Bennett lacks is finishing ability, I have never had a problem with his all around game at C.

You're ignoring that his PIMs increase significantly when he's at C because he gets overwhelmed, which is a sign of a low IQ

 

[Johnny Hoxville]

You're ignoring that his PIMs increase significantly when he's at C because he gets overwhelmed, which is a sign of a low IQ

Honestly I blame the coaches for his, Tkachuk’s and Dougie’s pims. Bennett plays a physical game which is no secret, so he’s gonna get pims no matter what. But every team I’ve ever been a part of, you play how the coaches allow you to play. When Ferland played the way he did against Vancouver, Hartley made him reel it in and he did. Gully was to soft as a coach which is why he’s no longer here. If a team plays undiscipled and the coach doesn’t discipline them accordingly after, the behaviour is going to continue.

Using Bennett taking pims as a main reason to knock his IQ, really doesn’t make any sense to me. I think Bennett was taking bad penalties because he was frustrated and he was trying to make an impact on the game when he wasn’t scoring. Those are all issues that can be corrected by the coaches. I don’t think anyone would sit here and say Marchand has a poor IQ because he acts like a maniac at times. Marchand displays an elite IQ style and can be be very undisciplined. These are independent of each other.

 

[DFF]

So Bennett has all this talent and good stuff, why is he not producing? You can only blame so much on the coach.

Bennett is not creating chances for himself and his teammates because he lacks the IQ at the NHL level to do it. Some time it's just that simple. It's been 3 yrs. Time is running out.

 

[Lunatik]

Honestly I blame the coaches for his, Tkachuk’s and Dougie’s pims. Bennett plays a physical game which is no secret, so he’s gonna get pims no matter what. But every team I’ve ever been a part of, you play how the coaches allow you to play. When Ferland played the way he did against Vancouver, Hartley made him reel it in and he did. Gully was to soft as a coach which is why he’s no longer here. If a team plays undiscipled and the coach doesn’t discipline them accordingly after, the behaviour is going to continue.

Using Bennett taking pims as a main reason to knock his IQ, really doesn’t make any sense to me. I think Bennett was taking bad penalties because he was frustrated and he was trying to make an impact on the game when he wasn’t scoring. Those are all issues that can be corrected by the coaches. I don’t think anyone would sit here and say Marchand has a poor IQ because he acts like a maniac at times. Marchand displays an elite IQ style and can be be very undisciplined. These are independent of each other.

Bennett's PIMs aren't ones from playing hard though. They're stupid penalties because he's caught in a bad position.

Bennett had 27 minor penalties last year. 2 were roughing, 1 was a cross check, 1 was goalie interference.... The rest were tripping, holding, slashing, interference and high sticking. The knock on Bennett isn't that he takes penalties, itsi the TYPE of penalties and the TIMING of said penalties.

 

[Johnny Hoxville]

So Bennett has all this talent and good stuff, why is he not producing? You can only blame so much on the coach.

Bennett is not creating chances for himself and his teammates because he lacks the IQ at the NHL level to do it. Some time it's just that simple. It's been 3 yrs. Time is running out.

See I can actually except this argument better, although I still disagree. I think Bennett was mishandled by the Flames, he probably came up to early. I also think Gully was a poor coach for him. And while others can say Monahan and Gaudreau did okay, some individuals just respond better to certain personalities. A good coach can get the most out of the majority of his players, not just a handful.

I’m in favour of Bennett starting on the wing, but I’d like to see him get some minutes with Tkachuk and play C as needed. I think it’s important that the coaches keep pushing him to develop all areas of his game because of his talent.

 

[OvermanKingGainer]

Bennett's PIMs aren't ones from playing hard though. They're stupid penalties because he's caught in a bad position.

Bennett had 27 minor penalties last year. 2 were roughing, 1 was a cross check, 1 was goalie interference.... The rest were tripping, holding, slashing, interference and high sticking. The knock on Bennett isn't that he takes penalties, itsi the TYPE of penalties and the TIMING of said penalties.

Damn. Bennett took 27 minor penalties in the... eight games he played at center last year. Convincing argument. Couldn't have anything to do with being told to hook and slash as part of an aggressive and holistically undisciplined team system under a coach who has experienced penalty spikes in both NHL stops he has had.

Not to mention many of Bennett's penalties come in the offensive zone on the forecheck, something that has very little to do with whether a player is a center or a winger, since those positions have significantly more meaning in the other two zones.

 

[DFF]

See I can actually except this argument better, although I still disagree. I think Bennett was mishandled by the Flames, he probably came up to early. I also think Gully was a poor coach for him. And while others can say Monahan and Gaudreau did okay, some individuals just respond better to certain personalities. A good coach can get the most out of the majority of his players, not just a handful.

I’m in favour of Bennett starting on the wing, but I’d like to see him get some minutes with Tkachuk and play C as needed. I think it’s important that the coaches keep pushing him to develop all areas of his game because is his talent.

Obviously we are all hoping for the best for Bennett since the team invested a lot in him and he does have talent.

Sometime, IQ can be fixed with good teaching and experience. I think this is the important year for Bennett. If he struggles I think it's over for him as a top 6 player.

 

[Lunatik]

Damn. Bennett took 27 minor penalties in the... eight games he played at center last year. Convincing argument. Couldn't have anything to do with being told to hook and slash as part of an aggressive and holistically undisciplined team system.

I didn't state they were all at center did I? But 1/4 of them came at center... Even though only about 1/8 of his games were there.

 

[OvermanKingGainer]

I didn't state they were all at center did I? But 1/4 of them came at center... Even though only about 1/8 of his games were there.

You don't seem to understand how the concept of sample size works, especially for something as subjectively prescribed as a penalty. But hey, if it makes you feel better about your BS narrative, keep shooting darts with a blindfold on.

Bennett played center for much of his rookie year at the beginning and end. He played it almost exclusively his second year except the handful of games Gaudreau was injured. He has had stretches in the two Gulutzan years where he was getting called for penalties, but these penalties rarely had anything to do with "playing center being too much" and mostly had to do with simple poor forechecking habits.

 

[Lunatik]

You don't seem to understand how the concept of sample size works, especially for something as subjectively prescribed as a penalty. But hey, if it makes you feel better about your BS narrative, keep shooting darts with a blindfold on.

Small sample size? It's been a constant throughout his entire f***ing career. That sample size is just a continuation of it.

Bennett is a mediocre player that's bordering on becoming irrelevant because he doesn't have the intelligence to allow him to put all the tools he has together.

 

[Corpus X]

Bennett will have the "Key to the City" next season. Mark my words.

 

[FerklundCGY]

So Bennett has all this talent and good stuff, why is he not producing? You can only blame so much on the coach.

Bennett is not creating chances for himself and his teammates because he lacks the IQ at the NHL level to do it. Some time it's just that simple. It's been 3 yrs. Time is running out.

This is actually false.

Bennett had the highest ixGF among all Flames players last season at 15.01 despite a rookie (Jankowski) and a grinder (Hathaway) as his most common linemates. Gaudreau was way down in second at 13.71 despite 200 minutes more of ice time.

The Flames also scored 15 less goals (29) than expected (44) with Bennett on the ice last season.

On top of that, Bennett also had the most individual scoring chances for on the Flames with 164 (Monahan also had 164 but played 30 more minutes although he was also badly injured the last few months so fair to think he would've finished first) as well as the 2nd most high danger scoring chances with 75 (Monahan was 1st with 76).

So again, saying Bennett isn't creating chances for himself and/or his linemates is just purely false.

 

[DFF]

This is actually false.

Bennett had the highest ixGF among all Flames players last season at 15.01 despite a rookie (Jankowski) and a grinder (Hathaway) as his most common linemates. Gaudreau was way down in second at 13.71 despite 200 minutes more of ice time.

The Flames also scored 15 less goals (29) than expected (44) with Bennett on the ice last season.

On top of that, Bennett also had the most individual scoring chances for on the Flames with 164 (Monahan also had 164 but played 30 more minutes although he was also badly injured the last few months so fair to think he would've finished first) as well as the 2nd most high danger scoring chances with 75 (Monahan was 1st with 76).

So again, saying Bennett isn't creating chances for himself and/or his linemates is just purely false.

I dont care what the stupid advanced stats say. Bottom line is he got 26 points. If those are chances, they must not be very good.

Also Bennett had his opportunities, let's stop blaming others

Simple fact is if something is not changing, he'll be a major disappointment. And I am not talking about luck.

 

[Johnny Hoxville]

This is actually false.

Bennett had the highest ixGF among all Flames players last season at 15.01 despite a rookie (Jankowski) and a grinder (Hathaway) as his most common linemates. Gaudreau was way down in second at 13.71 despite 200 minutes more of ice time.

The Flames also scored 15 less goals (29) than expected (44) with Bennett on the ice last season.

On top of that, Bennett also had the most individual scoring chances for on the Flames with 164 (Monahan also had 164 but played 30 more minutes although he was also badly injured the last few months so fair to think he would've finished first) as well as the 2nd most high danger scoring chances with 75 (Monahan was 1st with 76).

So again, saying Bennett isn't creating chances for himself and/or his linemates is just purely false.

This really backs up me saying that Bennett’s biggest problems are a lack of finish and confidence. Both of which should improve with maturity.

 

[Lunatik]

This really backs up me saying that Bennett’s biggest problems are a lack of finish and confidence. Both of which should improve with maturity.

Or that he's not getting in good position to bury his chances, which backs up lack of intelligence

 

[Johnny Hoxville]

Or that he's not getting in good position to bury his chances, which backs up lack of intelligence

I just can’t agree with that, because my eyes saw what the numbers are saying. Bennett was consistently generating chances last year, he looked far more dangerous than Backlund or Frolik by comparison. What I saw was a player that lacked confidence and was not getting clean shots off. Nothing I’ve seen from him or stated by other would lead me to think he has a poor hockey IQ.

The fact that he’s a good defensive player suggests that he has a good understanding of what’s happening on the ice.

 

[Lunatik]

I just can’t agree with that, because my eyes saw what the numbers are saying. Bennett was consistently generating chances last year, he looked far more dangerous than Backlund or Frolik by comparison. What I saw was a player that lacked confidence and was not getting clean shots off. Nothing I’ve seen from him or stated by other would lead me to think he has a poor hockey IQ.

The fact that he’s a good defensive player suggests that he has a good understanding of what’s happening on the ice.

Looking dangerous and being dangerous aren't the same thing. Yes, he created chances, but if they were as golden as they looked we wouldn't be having this conversation because he would have buried more

 

[FerklundCGY]

I dont care what the stupid advanced stats say. Bottom line is he got 26 points. If those are chances, they must not be very good.

Also Bennett had his opportunities, let's stop blaming others

Simple fact is if something is not changing, he'll be a major disappointment. And I am not talking about luck.

I mean, if you don't want to trust analytics and numbers that back Bennett up while proving you wrong, go ahead.

You can continue believing what you will with absolutely zero evidence to back up your false claim

 

[Anglesmith]

I mean, if you don't want to trust analytics and numbers that back Bennett up while proving you wrong, go ahead.

You can continue believing what you will with absolutely zero evidence to back up your false claim

You're ignoring the counting stats just as much as he's ignoring the analytics. Which is more important?

The use of counting stats as a predictive tool is obviously flawed, but everyone accepts that. There is variance, and totals can change from year to year without any change on the part of the player. But on the other hand, the use of analytics in discussions like this is far from "proof." Using a statistic as support for a claim involves an implication that the statistic has a certain meaning with respect to actual, real hockey. Whether that meaning is valid is very much up for debate, and analytics as a field has a long way to go and some serious issues to fix.

Chief among those issues is that generating shots is not the be all and end all in hockey. In addition, scoring is a talent, and defending in your own zone is a talent. Watching Bennett, he didn't have nearly enough shifts last year where his line outplayed the other line. He didn't generate nearly enough high quality scoring chances, and he got beat in his own end leading to him taking penalties. He was not, most nights, a positive difference maker for the team. That needs to change somehow. Pointing to those numbers and suggesting essentially that if he plays identically next year to how he played last year, he'll get more goals by law of averages does not jive at all with what we watched game to game last season. He has a lot of improvements to make.

 

[FerklundCGY]

You're ignoring the counting stats just as much as he's ignoring the analytics. Which is more important?

The use of counting stats as a predictive tool is obviously flawed, but everyone accepts that. There is variance, and totals can change from year to year without any change on the part of the player. But on the other hand, the use of analytics in discussions like this is far from "proof." Using a statistic as support for a claim involves an implication that the statistic has a certain meaning with respect to actual, real hockey. Whether that meaning is valid is very much up for debate, and analytics as a field has a long way to go and some serious issues to fix.

Chief among those issues is that generating shots is not the be all and end all in hockey. In addition, scoring is a talent, and defending in your own zone is a talent. Watching Bennett, he didn't have nearly enough shifts last year where his line outplayed the other line. He didn't generate nearly enough high quality scoring chances, and he got beat in his own end leading to him taking penalties. He was not, most nights, a positive difference maker for the team. That needs to change somehow. Pointing to those numbers and suggesting essentially that if he plays identically next year to how he played last year, he'll get more goals by law of averages does not jive at all with what we watched game to game last season. He has a lot of improvements to make.

The only part of his post I responded to was the part where he said Bennett wasn't creating chances for himself and/or his teammates.

All I posted about was his scoring chances and how he was unlucky in the offensive end last season, nothing else.

 

[Dack]

Maybe he'll finally be better than a replacement player next year. I'm hoping he breaks out but I'm done counting on it.

 

[The Gnome]

Oh boy, here we go....he's 22 years old. Can we all agree that is very young? Can we also all agree Bennett has shown brief flashes of true top 6 talent?...Can we now end this debate? Just freaking wait another season or two, then we can start to debate whether he is a bust or not. He may never get there, but he still has a great chance at becoming a top 6 talent.

 

[Kranix]

Oh boy, here we go....he's 22 years old. Can we all agree that is very young? Can we also all agree Bennett has shown brief flashes of true top 6 talent?...Can we now end this debate? Just freaking wait another season or two, then we can start to debate whether he is a bust or not. He may never get there, but he still has a great chance at becoming a top 6 talent.

This is the year he explodes.