#8 Glennie vs #10 Paajarvi-Svensson

[PTmbp13]

I fell in love with MSP at the 2007-2008 WJC's, & I watched him closely at the U18's too. Swedes say he's the best 3kr forward since Forsberg & Sundin and I totally agree. I will NEVER forgive Burke for taking Kadri !!!! The Oiler's are SO-OOOO LUCKY !!! Best forward in 2009 draft ??? Honestly, that's my thinking as well... Can't wait till to see that kid in NHL !

Noone coming close to what Forsberg was. ( Sundin, gretzky is a box of **** in comparising to Forsberg who had it ALL),

but MSP will be great so i pick him

 

[#66]

i would be amazed if he got that... seems more of a 30 goal guy.

I wouldn't write him off for 40 though. He has a great shot and doesn't seem afraid to use it. He also seems like he'll go to the dirty areas to put in goals too. The Gartner comparisons aren't far off in terms of style IMO.

 

[Brownies]

MSP's got all the tool in this world to succeed : size, speed, soft hands, ..., but too many people seems to think that his ability to finish will somehow flourish once he'll hit the NHL. It could happen or it couldn't happen but the latter seems to happen more often.

Some players enter the offensive zone and without too much effort always seems to find the back of the net (Tavares) while other seems to do it all but it leads to nowhere a lot of times (MSP).

 

[Jim Morrison]

MSP's got all the tool in this world to succeed : size, speed, soft hands, ..., but too many people seems to think that his ability to finish will somehow flourish once he'll hit the NHL. It could happen or it couldn't happen but the latter seems to happen more often.

Some players enter the offensive zone and without too much effort always seems to find the back of the net (Tavares) while other seems to do it all but it leads to nowhere a lot of times (MSP).

You seem like you've seen all of his games in SEL, right? I mean, to be able to insinuate such things you must have seen alot of MPS games?

 

[glovesave_35]

Teams draft for need plain and simple. Am i going to draft a goalie if i already have 3 future #1 goalies in the system? I know i would not! Dallas addressed their needs....A player who can play center/right wing and who is a right shot. If you look at Dallas current roster and who we have in the system and you will see lower tier talent with right shots that play right wing.

See this link to see why we drafted a RW/RS...Tell me how many future 1st or 2nd line players you see that fits the mold.
http://www.hockeysfuture.com/teams/dallas_stars

You're way off base here KSS. If you were running an organization you might draft based purely on need. The truth of the matter is that while need factors into the equation somewhat, it is a minor part of the equation. Teams draft based on a myriad of variables, but what trumps them all is BPA. Bottom line. Now, if the Stars knew they were going to "target" right shot players that may have factored into their scouting preferences and affected things that way, but other than that I highly doubt those things factored in to any significant degree. For all we know, when these players are becoming NHL ready, the Stars may have traded for or signed a half dozen right handed shot players.

Your extreme example with the goalies is a great example for the opposite of your POV. Having a true glut of high end players at one single position gives the organization a huge lift when it comes to improving the NHL roster, because if you truly have 3 future #1 goalies, then you will feel absolutely fine trading one away to make up for an area of weakness.

Best drafting teams pick BPA. Bottom line.

 

[Wheatking]

I know the Oilers go for the BPA and if there are two or three that they feel are all on par with each other then they pick for need. I think this is how most teams are. Certainly not all. Some teams just pick their man and that's the guy they're taking no matter what. The

Kings were an example of this. I remember in 2007 they were trying to trade the 4th overall for a pick for the Oilers 15th overall pick because the felt Hickey would still be available(TSN had him at #13). They couldn't get it done so they just took him at #4 which was a lot higher that he was ranked. They could have had Gagner, Voracek or Alzner but knew who they wanted.

 

[glovesave_35]

Untrue. It certainly helps Benn's case. But he's far overrated on these boards. I posted in another thread about the reasoning, but go ahead and look at Brett MacLean and Luca Caputi, and you'll see that Benn's essentially a 50 pt AHLer next year, or about a 25-35 pt NHLer if he played 82 games next year.

Has he improved a ton. Yes. Was he dominant in the WHL as a 19 year old. Yes. Did he have a strong WJC-20, yes. Is he the second coming. No. Not even close.

-Chris

And James Neal was 3 goals shy of his highest goal total ever (and that was in junior) as an NHL rookie last year. I'm not sure I see your point here. I thought we were talking longterm potential anyways. Nobody is asking what any of these players will do next year. The players you mention are still very young and can still turn out to be very fine NHL players. I'm not sure what you're trying to prove by pointing to a couple of 21 year olds. Also, neither MacLean or Caputi ever put up the kind of numbers in the playoffs that Benn has.

The thing is that yes, Benn has improved, but not quite by the margin most think. The reason everybody thinks he is so much improved is because he was drafted in the 5th round out of a lower level hockey program. So, naturally when he starts to put up big numbers immediately in the WHL people instantly think he "improved" a ton. His skating has gotten better, which allows him to be a better all around player, but I saw him in Stars prospects camp before he ever played a game in the 'dub and he still had the most accurate shot coupled with a super quick release of any player to come through Dallas in a while. I'm far from saying he is the next Brett Hull, but Benn's game resembles Brett's a lot.

So in summary, either MPS or Glennie...I myself would take the one who has the higher upside, whichever you deem that to be.

 

[glovesave_35]

I would like to point out that Les Jackson (Dallas Stars head of scouting / former GM) indicated that the Stars had OEL, Kadri, Glennie, and Kulikov ranked very close togather as their #6 through #9 prospects on the board, and they took the best one remaining (he didn't say if they had Glennie ranked ahead of OEL or Kadri). So that should tell you that obviously the Stars saw something they didn't like in MPS, because they didn't even consider him a potential choice at their draft position.

I was kind of upset at first that the Stars passed on two prospects that were nearly universally ranked higher on the scouting lists then Glennie, but after hearing Jackson and co. talk about him I am actually pretty confident that Dallas got the right guy. They see him as a Brenden Morrow type player with better goalscoring ability - although it remains to be seen in the next couple years if Glennie turns into the physical monster that Morrow is. The Scouts seem sure that he has that element in him, so I can't wait to see him play next season.

Also someone mentioned that they highly doubted the fact that Glennie won't play in the NHL until 2012-13, but believe me the Stars are 100% commited to having every prospect play atleast 1 full season in the AHL before they get their shot in the big league, and Glennie won't be eligible to play in the AHL until 2011-12 due to his age. They think that it helps prepare a player for the NHL like no other league. Fabian Brunnstrom is the one "exception" I guess, and not playing in the AHL was a condition of his contract. He probably could have used it though, as it turned out the defensive side of his game was nowhere near good enough.

***That's very interesting theory about Dallas trading back - I remember all the speculation about John Moore and how high the team was on him - to the point where there was actually people thinking they might end up taking him at #8.

Agree with most of what you posted. I am also getting to the point where I have faith in the decisions Jackson and co. are making these days when it comes to drafting, especially out of the WHL.

I know that the Stars like to bring along their players more slowly than some teams, and yes, they like to have a guy get some seasoning in the AHL before full-time NHL duty. But, to say that playing a whole season in the AHL is a near requirement to play for the Dallas Stars isn't exactly true. Nor are all players/prospects equal. Dallas has by necessity had to bring along their players more slowly because they were drafting later in the first round (or not at all). But, a player like Glennie who was drafted as high as he was (even a 10-15 pick would be considered super-high for the Stars), doesn't necessarily need a full AHL season, or maybe even a partial one. If he continues to get bigger and stronger and more mature, there's no reason he can't wow the brass in two years and earn an NHL job...hell, he may make the team out of money/cap considerations.

 

[BigG44]

Also someone mentioned that they highly doubted the fact that Glennie won't play in the NHL until 2012-13, but believe me the Stars are 100% commited to having every prospect play atleast 1 full season in the AHL before they get their shot in the big league, and Glennie won't be eligible to play in the AHL until 2011-12 due to his age. They think that it helps prepare a player for the NHL like no other league. Fabian Brunnstrom is the one "exception" I guess, and not playing in the AHL was a condition of his contract. He probably could have used it though, as it turned out the defensive side of his game was nowhere near good enough.

Fabian Brunnstrom's situation was unique, but Matt Niskanen is a comparable example. He blew Dallas away and avoided the AHL.

hell, he may make the team out of money/cap considerations.

Doubt it. His contract will likely be worth $1,750,000 per year (based on previous players taken in the same range). When Glennie makes the team it will be because he earned it and not because he's affordable. In 2-3 years, Dallas will have much cheaper options on ELC under $1 million.

 

[DJB]

I would like to point out that Les Jackson (Dallas Stars head of scouting / former GM) indicated that the Stars had OEL, Kadri, Glennie, and Kulikov ranked very close togather as their #6 through #9 prospects on the board, and they took the best one remaining (he didn't say if they had Glennie ranked ahead of OEL or Kadri). So that should tell you that obviously the Stars saw something they didn't like in MPS, because they didn't even consider him a potential choice at their draft position.

I was kind of upset at first that the Stars passed on two prospects that were nearly universally ranked higher on the scouting lists then Glennie, but after hearing Jackson and co. talk about him I am actually pretty confident that Dallas got the right guy. They see him as a Brenden Morrow type player with better goalscoring ability - although it remains to be seen in the next couple years if Glennie turns into the physical monster that Morrow is. The Scouts seem sure that he has that element in him, so I can't wait to see him play next season.

Also someone mentioned that they highly doubted the fact that Glennie won't play in the NHL until 2012-13, but believe me the Stars are 100% commited to having every prospect play atleast 1 full season in the AHL before they get their shot in the big league, and Glennie won't be eligible to play in the AHL until 2011-12 due to his age. They think that it helps prepare a player for the NHL like no other league. Fabian Brunnstrom is the one "exception" I guess, and not playing in the AHL was a condition of his contract. He probably could have used it though, as it turned out the defensive side of his game was nowhere near good enough.

***That's very interesting theory about Dallas trading back - I remember all the speculation about John Moore and how high the team was on him - to the point where there was actually people thinking they might end up taking him at #8.

I absolutely love this about the Stars. They develop their prospects properly and don't rush them. My biggest pet peeve with prospects is the way teams and fans alike expect these kids to jump into the NHL right away and expect them to be stars.

Thanks for the info on who the Stars had ranked. I really wish I knew who the Sens had ranked....

 

[PlantersOye]

MPS has more upside, in my opinion. If not now, at least for the future.