Post-Game Talk: 5 games left

[jkutswings]

30 years ago there was Ulf Samuelsson, among others, too. Guys like Ulf and Cooke are a special breed who can get his nose broken all of the time and will still go out and do whatever it did that ended up with his nose broken. It should be noted, though, that when the NHL started coming down hard on Cooke with suspensions his game cleaned up a bit, and took a bit of a dive.

I don't think having a guy who will drop the gloves with regularity is a be-all, end-all deterrence. I don't think it hurts, though, either. I think it also helps give their own teams a bit of...backbone, I guess? I brought it up before, but guys who fight normally also aren't afraid of playing a more physical brand of hockey. And I think that is the best deterrence to getting ran. Hit them first and initiate the contact.

I also want to continue to point out that I don't think anyone is calling for a five minute a night enforcer who does nothing but drop the gloves. We can find a fourth line forward who can handle ~10 minutes of ES hockey and not be an embarrassment, though. We can probably find guys who can play in the middle6 without paying them upwards for four million a year and for nearly a decade.

Also, a bit more size and physical play up and down the lineup would go a long way towards making Tatar and Nyquist less of a bad thing to have. If Sheahan and Jurco actually played to their size, this team would have been so much better, imo.

Thank you. Several good points, and stated better than I could explain it.

 

[obey86]

I'm not saying players can toggle their aggressiveness, and I'm not saying an enforcer can stop opponents from playing physical. I'm saying that there are plenty of cowards in the NHL that don't have a problem slashing opposing players with their sticks, because they don't have the guts to play rough themselves, let alone engage in an actual fight.

If <Team X> has one or more guys that are willing to drop the gloves to defend a team mate - not as a primary function, but to know that it's on the table - I'm saying that those weasels tend to be less eager to use their lumber on the wrists and ankles of the players of <Team X>.

There's absolutely zero evidence any of this is true or that having an enforcer limits "slashing" or whatever.

Players will hack, slash, hit hard, no matter who is on the opposing team.

 

[newfy]

There's absolutely zero evidence any of this is true or that having an enforcer limits "slashing" or whatever.

Players will hack, slash, hit hard, no matter who is on the opposing team.

First of all, no one is realy talking about enforcers (not sure if youll read that part though) and yes some guys like the Cookes and Ulfs will always be a little off the wall. However, if you dont think having tough guys throughout your line up limit a lot of the ****, then I dunno what to tell you. This year hasnt been as bad but in years past, normally softer players have absolutely played tougher against the wings because they knew they had nothing to worry about. Tampa Bay isnt a tough team but Paquette has no issues slew footing Datsyuk. If the wings had Simmonds on line 1, Lucic on line 2, Abdelkader on line 3 and Matt Martin on line 4, do you really think those pretend tough guys would want to use their stick as much?

Sure tougher guys still would run around a bit and cause trouble but itll be way less because the weaker guys wont play as big or pretend to be as tough.

 

[chances14]

if you dont think having tough guys throughout your line up limit a lot of the ****, then I dunno what to tell you. This year hasnt been as bad but in years past, normally softer players have absolutely played tougher against the wings because they knew they had nothing to worry about. Tampa Bay isnt a tough team but Paquette has no issues slew footing Datsyuk. If the wings had Simmonds on line 1, Lucic on line 2, Abdelkader on line 3 and Matt Martin on line 4, do you really think those pretend tough guys would want to use their stick as much?

Sure tougher guys still would run around a bit and cause trouble but itll be way less because the weaker guys wont play as big or pretend to be as tough.

There is no evidence to support that and i just haven't seen this to be true, especially over the last 10 years or so

I do think having some grinders on your team is a good idea as you want to be able to wear the other team down over a 7 game playoff series

 

[obey86]

First of all, no one is realy talking about enforcers (not sure if youll read that part though) and yes some guys like the Cookes and Ulfs will always be a little off the wall. However, if you dont think having tough guys throughout your line up limit a lot of the ****, then I dunno what to tell you. This year hasnt been as bad but in years past, normally softer players have absolutely played tougher against the wings because they knew they had nothing to worry about. Tampa Bay isnt a tough team but Paquette has no issues slew footing Datsyuk. If the wings had Simmonds on line 1, Lucic on line 2, Abdelkader on line 3 and Matt Martin on line 4, do you really think those pretend tough guys would want to use their stick as much?

Sure tougher guys still would run around a bit and cause trouble but itll be way less because the weaker guys wont play as big or pretend to be as tough.

Yeah, the "having tough guys limits slashing, checking, etc" is a complete 100% unsubstantiated claim. Keep telling yourself otherwise though.

 

[ricky0034]

hell forget evidence i'd settle for a rational reason why the other team having a fighter or two would affect anything in a world unless both players want one fights pretty much never even happen

I just don't see any real reason why it should even enter anyone's mind as a factor out there on the ice nowadays

 

[TKB]

First of all, no one is realy talking about enforcers (not sure if youll read that part though) and yes some guys like the Cookes and Ulfs will always be a little off the wall. However, if you dont think having tough guys throughout your line up limit a lot of the ****, then I dunno what to tell you. This year hasnt been as bad but in years past, normally softer players have absolutely played tougher against the wings because they knew they had nothing to worry about. Tampa Bay isnt a tough team but Paquette has no issues slew footing Datsyuk. If the wings had Simmonds on line 1, Lucic on line 2, Abdelkader on line 3 and Matt Martin on line 4, do you really think those pretend tough guys would want to use their stick as much?

Sure tougher guys still would run around a bit and cause trouble but itll be way less because the weaker guys wont play as big or pretend to be as tough.

Without question the guys further down the pecking order will think twice about being a tough guy if they will have to answer for it.

But I think what most people miss is the fact that having a tough guy is more about the support and message it sends to your own team, than the "value" it brings in trying to intimidate another team's tough guys. Your skill guys can just focus on their job instead of worrying about wether or not they need to to stand up to someone or otherwise take a number.

If you are the Chicago Blackhawks or the Red Wings of old, you don't need to burn a roster spot on this, but other teams and situations it can far more valuable than what you are getting from the 13th or 14th forward.