30 Thoughts from Friedman (Canucks are 1-4)

[canwincup]

Too salty. I apologize. Wasting 5 years is better than 20 I guess,

Let's just hope they've finally realized, I would still prefer a regime change. Although that doesn't look like it will happen.

 

[PG Canuck]

Well, at least they have a direction now?

 

[Jyrki]

You know, the Sedins have every right to want to keep winning in Vancouver. But it seems like they were instrumental in bringing Eriksson over, which will be a mistake that will live on for a while. I'm not sure whether I should be mad at them for being tonedeaf on the team's inability to compete, or management for being too afraid to displease the duo.

 

[yvrtojfk]

If they spoke to the Sedins any chance they asked them about being moved next year at the TDL? My hope is for a similar outing next year with us aquiring a blue chip and a 1st for them.

I really hope this is a sign for good things to come.

 

[Jyrki]

If they spoke to the Sedins any chance they asked them about being moved next year at the TDL? My hope is for a similar outing next year with us aquiring a blue chip and a 1st for them.

I really hope this is a sign for good things to come.

Frankly, if the Sedins play like they are right now, they aren't (individually) going to fetch more than Hansen or Burrows. They would specifically fill an offensive need; clearly they're too slow to be effective eating big minutes and are increasingly a liability when away from the puck.

 

[Labamba]

You know, the Sedins have every right to want to keep winning in Vancouver. But it seems like they were instrumental in bringing Eriksson over, which will be a mistake that will live on for a while. I'm not sure whether I should be mad at them for being tonedeaf on the team's inability to compete, or management for being too afraid to displease the duo.

I like the LE signing because it takes capspace away from Jim's pen. Dead cap space is better than a high performing player who would prolong the inevitable.

Great signing.

 

[yvrtojfk]

Frankly, if the Sedins play like they are right now, they aren't (individually) going to fetch more than Hansen or Burrows. They would specifically fill an offensive need; clearly they're too slow to be effective eating big minutes and are increasingly a liability when away from the puck.

I could see a handful of teams making a push for them for some secondary scoring next year. Anaheim, Rangers, Kings, etc. Facing the 2nd/3rd pair will help. With 2nd PP time. I can see them being effective and I think they'll bring in a nice piece.

Looking forward to seeing how things play out. Got a long long road ahead.

 

[drax0s]

Because to everyone's surprise Benning's move to fix the "age gap" has created a new age gap in 2014-16 drafted players, so now he has to fix that too!

We created a 2014-2016 age gap? Yeah, sure, if you ignore Demko, Tryamkin, Gaudette, Boeser, Juolevi and potentially Brisebois and Lockwood.

 

[Yossarian54]

They are "flip-floppers". They've bent in backwards on themselves trying to assuage the fans and it hasn't worked... They are still trying to do it.

It's _easy_ to mock them right now regardless.

But the proof is always in the pudding. People praise Benning's trades because they traded older players for younger assets. It's as close to a rebuild action they can get while still pushing their warped vision to the owner. They can say "see, we can target "accelerated prospects" and still assuage the fears of the general populace".

And some fans are buying into it. They want to believe it's a rebuild. But is it? IMO, no, it isn't. Not yet, but it's as close as they have come to it.

Oh I agree they are. But they can still insist on everything being part of the process and that is what matters to them - they can spin it and many will buy in. My point is simply that you will never get a mea culpa from them for these reasons.

For my part I think that this is indication that we are swinging towards rebuild. I agree with WTGs point generally about Dahlen/Goldobin being about as good a return as we could hope for. And I think look at next year's roster (combined with Linden's FA comments) makes it clear we are getting another lottery pick. Rebuild, even if not explicitly stated.

 

[me2]

I could see a handful of teams making a push for them for some secondary scoring next year. Anaheim, Rangers, Kings, etc. Facing the 2nd/3rd pair will help. With 2nd PP time. I can see them being effective and I think they'll bring in a nice piece.

Looking forward to seeing how things play out. Got a long long road ahead.

Finding buyers could be difficult since we can only retain on one more player since the Hansen trade and I doubt the want to be split up. We are going to need to eat some bad contracts at the deadline to have any chance of moving them.

 

[Bleach Clean]

Sure they have, but I really suggest giving the interview a listen. Linden makes no effort in trying to correct the record in case of the rebuild. Now, combined with this new news that they aren't looking to get long term contracts. It really seems like a different direction. I think they threw the "age gap" theories and just threw them out the window. That is certainly a different direction. Really, moving older players, for young prospects/picks and ditching the "age gap" philosophy that allowed them to rationalize getting players like Sutter and Vey. That all seems to be gone.

Well, I don't think we could have asked for a better return for Burrows then Dahlen. Dorian doesn't seem to really value Dahlen and he probably values him less then a first which is what I value him as.

With Hansen, I think that Picks might have been involved, but the reality is that SJS doesn't have 2nd/3rd round picks this year or next year. So there's an option for Goldobin, or a late 1st. I think taking Goldobin instead of a 1st seemed to make sense.

I would have taken their late 1st and their 4th round pick.

Dahlen seems fine.

But this comes down to your statement in bold: "Trading older players for picks/prospects". These are not one and the same. The pick return is pure future value that many rebuilding teams have shown to covet. The "accelerated prospect" is something Benning has targeted before. This is the Age Gap theory revisited. The only difference is that they traded older players to get them. That's confusing people, IMO.

They are getting younger, but not the youngest they can possibly get -- and therein lies the issue.

This draft sucks and we just got 2 players that would be 1st rounders this year plus a 4th which is better than a couple 2nds and maybe a 3rd.
Neither Goldobin or Dahlen have stagnated in their development and our management has layed it out that were going rebuild. The Leafs while rebuilding took Kapanen from Pittsburgh. Im not getting the fears or frustrations about our deadline

First, I think the top end of the draft is below-par, but it does not "suck" on the whole. There is still value to be found in the late 1st round. So that immediately contests what is better/not better to attain.

Question for you: Has this regime traded a mid-aged player or a veteran for a pure futures (picks only) return?

Would you have preferred if they traded Burrows for a 2nd instead? I think majority of this board would agree that Dahlen>2nd in this draft.

I don't get how a player that is in his D+1 year isn't purely a 'futures' move.

It's not because they are sacrificing upside to for surety. There is a trade off. To treat every prospect outside the NHL the same as draft eligible players only gets the team in the Age Gap mess that its in right now.

 

[yvrtojfk]

Finding buyers could be difficult since we can only retain on one more player since the Hansen trade and I doubt the want to be split up. We are going to need to eat some bad contracts at the deadline to have any chance of moving them.

Any competent GM will be able to make this work. Look at what Y did in Tampa. We have no reason not to take on some bad contracts. We are not competing for a while. We will see how bought in ownership is come next year.

 

[Wo Yorfat]

Who would you rather be rid of, Benning, Linden, or Eriksson?

 

[me2]

Any competent GM will be able to make this work. Look at what Y did in Tampa. We have no reason not to take on some bad contracts. We are not competing for a while. We will see how bought in ownership is come next year.

Filpulla carried a $5m contract. The Sedins will carry $10.5m combined contracts. That's a huge difference, we are looking at teams running $2.5-3m+ under the cap from the start of the season to the deadline. Teams that don't have other needs. Moving one Sedin at 50%, easy, that's only $3.5m but a pair is much harder.

 

[WTG]

Beach Clean

From the Provies:

Benning was quite clear that night, saying the team was going in a new direction and even revealed he had sat down with the Sedins to tell them about this direction.

“Will this new direction continue into next year?”

Benning shared his infamous quote about running out of patience with the so-called Sedin core, and he basically vowed that yes, this will continue into next year.

He suggested he’s given up on his belief he could turn this group into a playoff team, which he spent much of his first three summers in Vancouver trying to do.

What a time to be alive.

http://theprovince.com/sports/hocke...ressed-and-how-the-canucks-ruined-tuesday-jim

It's official I guess.

 

[me2]

Who would you rather be rid of, Benning, Linden, or Eriksson?

yes.

 

[Bleach Clean]

Oh I agree they are. But they can still insist on everything being part of the process and that is what matters to them - they can spin it and many will buy in. My point is simply that you will never get a mea culpa from them for these reasons.

For my part I think that this is indication that we are swinging towards rebuild. I agree with WTGs point generally about Dahlen/Goldobin being about as good a return as we could hope for. And I think look at next year's roster (combined with Linden's FA comments) makes it clear we are getting another lottery pick. Rebuild, even if not explicitly stated.

I don't disagree with much of what you have said. The bump in the road is the last bit: Simply being terrible is not a rebuild. A rebuild is pro-activity. It's a GM selling everything that isn't stapled down to get _pure_futures_. And there's a reason it's first and foremost _pure_ futures and not accelerated Age Gap'ers. There's more control over who is selected. More time on ELCs. More ways that development can affect said assets. More time to deal them should the need arise etc...

I think they've won over a lot of fans while still pushing their agenda to ownership. It's about as good a deadline as it could have been for them.

 

[yvrtojfk]

Filpulla carried a $5m contract. The Sedins will carry $10.5m combined contracts. That's a huge difference, we are looking at teams running $2.5-3m+ under the cap from the start of the season to the deadline. Teams that don't have other needs. Moving one Sedin at 50%, easy, that's only $3.5m but a pair is much harder.

Harder but not impossible. I'd do the work but maybe over the weekend I'll look at teams that can afford the Sedins with minimal impact involved. It's a bit difficult with the expansion coming and not exactly sure what teams will look like afterwards. It will be interesting to speculate.

 

[VancouverJagger]

These were TEXTBOOK rebuild trades. There is no 2 ways about it.

Do you think they identified Goldobin and Dahlen as players that can help us make the playoffs next year, and 2 players in their 30's just happened to be the asking price?

Similar to Baerstchi? We traded a draft pick, more or less an 18 year-old player for a 21 year old or so player at the time. That is nothing like a 35 year old for a 19 year-old.

Whoooooa - I am about as optimistic as they come but the chances of the playoffs next year about the same as me and my ex getting back together - not gonna happen nope.........

 

[Red]

Damn. I mean, this is night and day to last year. This is what management should have been saying last year but the fact they are saying it is just...finally.

Honestly, was cringing expecting Linden to say he was the most impressed with Granlund (who I like more than most here but also recognize his limitations) and was just shocked (in a good way) that he said Tryamkin.

I still don't think this is the right management group to do this rebuild, but at least we're finally going in a (potentially) positive direction.

Bridge/short term deals to potentially trade away at deadlines, yes please. This needs to be the next two years.

 

[yvrtojfk]

I'm also happy about the Edler and Tanev remarks. I rather have some veteran players help out and fill a role for now until we are ready to ship them off. I do expect them to ge moved but maybe next off season. Moving them out and having your young guys sink or swim. That's how you become embarrassingly bad.

 

[Bleach Clean]

Beach Clean

From the Provies:

http://theprovince.com/sports/hocke...ressed-and-how-the-canucks-ruined-tuesday-jim

It's official I guess.

Should have kept reading WTG:

The Canucks, however, couldn’t help themselves. It was one thing for Benning to walk all of this back the next day, and he did so by saying there had been no direction change at all.

But then Linden, billed as the organization’s PR savant, doubled down on TSN 1040 and awkwardly, unbelievably answered questions about a “rebuild†without actually being able to say the word “rebuild,†as though that combination of letters who cause the world’s nuclear reactors to meltdown en masse.

Instead of rebuild, Linden called it a “transition.â€

To re-cap: Benning walked back on what he said the very next day.

The clincher in all of this is that this management team cannot bring themselves to deal departing assets for _only_ picks. That represents the best future value VAN can hope to acquire... and I do not believe in this management team's ability to get it.

 

[drax0s]

Haha, that sounds like "shoot from the hip" Benning spoke honestly and was then coached after to not say the "R-word". I can already see the memos:

"Notice, when referring to the current transition of the Canucks to a younger core, we are using the term "In Transition". We do NOT use the term "rebuild"."

 

[quat]

I don't know how most fans wouldn't be happy to hear these things. They finally seem to fully commit to the rebuild. I love it.

I guess the worry is that we've seen how well these guys:

a) build a cup contender
b) build a team to make the playoffs

The majority of their decisions have been horrid. That's the concern. Hoping people who've shown to be poor at doing what they claimed to have been trying to do doesn't give me much hope they'll be better at doing the next thing in line.

 

[JuniorNelson]

If they extend the Sedins they lose Horvat. That's obvious but they do not seem deterred. It's very hopeless. Sedins would be gone by now, for sure, on any other team. They are fully expended, Canucks have wrung the last games out of them. The actual time to trade them is long passed. Continuing to follow this scheme is just laughable.

Canucks: Yup. with the extensions and Eriksson, our top line is set for years!
NHL: Hahahahaha!