30 Thoughts from Friedman (Canucks are 1-4)

[Bleach Clean]

Fairly sure that's Friedman, not Linden.

That would make a lot of sense, but why would Friedman expand on something Linden never even intimated?

 

[Nucker101]

What makes you think this? They still traded for near-NHL ready players. Similar to the Baertschi deal. I guess it's because they traded older players to do it?

This _still_ doesn't seem like a rebuild to me.





Can you link to this interview because I don't think they've defined their OLD direciton, let alone their NEW one...

They added a 4th as well. And it's possible that they aren't high on this draft and preferred those 2 prospects over having an extra 1st and an extra 2nd round pick. Especially if CBJ is likely to give up their 2nd round pick to use this year.

 

[Bleach Clean]

They added a 4th as well. And it's possible that they aren't high on this draft and preferred those 2 prospects over having an extra 1st and an extra 2nd round pick. Especially if CBJ is likely to give up their 2nd round pick to use this year.

A rebuild requires a lot of picks. Until they do this, I don't think anyone can conclude that this is a rebuild.

They went after Vey, Clendenning, Baertschi... basically fringe NHLers. You could categorize Goldobin as this. Dahlen is further away, but the follows along that same direction.

 

[Captain Bowie]

What makes you think this? They still traded for near-NHL ready players. Similar to the Baertschi deal. I guess it's because they traded older players to do it?

This _still_ doesn't seem like a rebuild to me.

These were TEXTBOOK rebuild trades. There is no 2 ways about it.

Do you think they identified Goldobin and Dahlen as players that can help us make the playoffs next year, and 2 players in their 30's just happened to be the asking price?

Similar to Baerstchi? We traded a draft pick, more or less an 18 year-old player for a 21 year old or so player at the time. That is nothing like a 35 year old for a 19 year-old.

 

[Mal Reynolds]

That would make a lot of sense, but why would Friedman expand on something Linden never even intimated?

Beats me. I respect Friedman, but he does definitely speculate. Let's not forget his job is to be a talking head on our tv...

 

[Captain Bowie]

A rebuild requires a lot of picks. Until they do this, I don't think anyone can conclude that this is a rebuild.

The purpose of draft picks is to get young players, aka "prospects" into the system. We skipped the middle man in this case. Their age only really matters if their primes will be over with by the time we plan to be good again. And unless Benning is planning on a 10+ year rebuild I don't see it being an issue.

 

[AwesomeInTheory]

We skipped the middle man in this case.

Which worked out incredibly well with guys like Vey, Clendening...

 

[Bleach Clean]

These were TEXTBOOK rebuild trades. There is no 2 ways about it.

Do you think they identified Goldobin and Dahlen as players that can help us make the playoffs next year, and 2 players in their 30's just happened to be the asking price?

Similar to Baerstchi? We traded a draft pick, more or less an 18 year-old player for a 21 year old or so player at the time. That is nothing like a 35 year old for a 19 year-old.

You want them to be textbook =/= that they are textbook rebuilding trades. 'Textbook' would be trading for pure futures.

Goldobin is Baertschi level. They traded for him in an attempt to serve their plan (looked like a re-tool).

As previously stated, the difference is that older players were traded. Yet, those older players did garner picks, in the end.

Beats me. I respect Friedman, but he does definitely speculate. Let's not forget his job is to be a talking head on our tv...

I was hoping it was a Linden quote.

 

[Bleach Clean]

The purpose of draft picks is to get young players, aka "prospects" into the system. We skipped the middle man in this case. Their age only really matters if their primes will be over with by the time we plan to be good again. And unless Benning is planning on a 10+ year rebuild I don't see it being an issue.

This is the same thing we heard when "Age Gap" was explained. We "accelerated their development".

Their age also matters when projecting their ultimate upside. We know more about their projection, and more about their flaws. The trade off is upside for NHL surety. They are still accepting that trade off with these deals.

If they had sold off Burrows and Hansen for pure futures _then_ the rebuild could not be questioned... But they didn't do that.

 

[Captain Bowie]

You want them to be textbook =/= that they are textbook rebuilding trades. 'Textbook' would be trading for pure futures.

Goldobin is Baertschi level. They traded for him in an attempt to serve their plan (looked like a re-tool).

As previously stated, the difference is that older players were traded. Yet, those older players did garner picks, in the end.
.

Your logic is amusing. If Goldobin and Dahlen aren't "futures" I don't know what they are. They certainly weren't brought in for the playoff push this year. We traded a player 10 years older for Godldobin, we traded an asset 3 years younger for Sven. Somehow that's the same...

I'm off to bed so enjoy your backwards logic.

 

[Cupless44]

A rebuild isn't defined by trading for draft picks only. They traded for a 19 year old and a 21 year old.

 

[Nucker101]

This is the same thing we heard when "Age Gap" was explained. We "accelerated their development".

Their age also matters when projecting their ultimate upside. We know more about their projection, and more about their flaws. The trade off is upside for NHL surety. They are still accepting that trade off with these deals.

If they had sold off Burrows and Hansen for pure futures _then_ the rebuild could not be questioned... But they didn't do that.

Dahlen might not even come to North America next year, I think they just flat out liked him as a young prospect. He was just drafted last year. I'm not sure how one year makes such a massive difference lol.


Goldobin, I'll admit fits your logic a bit more, more of Linden Vey/Sven Baertschi type acquisition that we've already seen.

 

[valkynax]

You want them to be textbook =/= that they are textbook rebuilding trades. 'Textbook' would be trading for pure futures.

Goldobin is Baertschi level. They traded for him in an attempt to serve their plan (looked like a re-tool).

As previously stated, the difference is that older players were traded. Yet, those older players did garner picks, in the end.

I was hoping it was a Linden quote.

Well, this TDL is already better than last, and I'm pretty happy about it. Of course this is also partly due to the incredibly low bar I set - at least this time Benning didn't do anything stupid.

If, by some miracle, this TDL is an indication of management and owners pulling their heads out of their own @sses and move towards rebuild, I'll be even happier.

Let's see what will become of this off season and next TDL. If they are serious about rebuild the first thing they should do is to tell uncle willie to screw off. Then maybe trade away Sbisa, and go from there.

 

[Tryforthekingdom]

I still don't see this as a start of a radical change to managements plans. Benning explicitly reaffirmed his commitment to the vets in his post deadline press conference, and also stated he didn't expect to add more picks before the draft.

This is just what teams that find themselves thoroughly out of the picture in late February do. Dallas, St Louis, and Tampa all "sold" at the deadline, yet none of those teams are aiming to undergo a long term period of funneling out older assets for prospects and picks. They all (I assume), aim to come back and compete strongly next season.

We'll see how the off-season goes, but I would temper my expectations regarding any sort of sea change in the overall strategy of management.

 

[WTG]

Can you link to this interview because I don't think they've defined their OLD direciton, let alone their NEW one...

https://soundcloud.com/tsn-radio-va...ing-our-group-by-adding-youth-skill-prospects

At around 1:45

Can we say the "rebuild on the fly" is a thing of the past? And this is now a complete rebuild?

Term it how you want, we always knew we had to transition the team into a younger group. I think when we came, we recognized where this group was and after our first year when we had a 101 points, we traded 2 veterans for draft picks that summer. At every point we tried to improve this group by getting younger and adding more skill and developing a bigger prospect pool. So that's always been our goal, I guess the terminology, you can say what you want. But I think we've known that this is a path we were heading down, and this just carried on.

Is Franscesco Aquilini on board... are the sedins on board?

I think Daniel and Henrik are excited. They are excited about the energy that the Troy Stecher's, the Tryamkin's, the Hutton's and the Horvat's and the Baertschi's and the Granlund's brought to this group. They are excited on what Goldobin will bring, and obviously, they are familiar with Jonathan Dahlen and where this group is going. So I think they are excited about that. Obviously, there is going to be some challenging times.

As far as ownership. The one thing that I've really worked hard on i n the last while, is just that this organization from a hockey op standpoint is, from a business standpoint is, from a ownership standpoint is aligned on where we are, realistically and where we are going. Franscesco has been outstanding, he's been really excited about where we need to get to. We are in territory that this franchise and market has not seen for several years, for many years. But it's exciting. The amount of young players that we've been collecting and we will continue to in this years draft is going to be fun. I think it's going to be fun for our fans to see these young players grow and develop.

Trevor, you say that this team is going in a direction that this market hasn't seem before, but don't you get the sense that this fanbase wants this?

Yeah, I think there's a realization that... that... and I think that there for us there's always recognize that... that... Due to certain contract language and veteran players its taken longer then people wanted. But I think we always knew we were in this transition period. And working through certain situations, and so. But I do believe that we have gotten a really intelligent fanbase, they understand the game. That makes us better. So when we look at this group, we are getting to where we need to get to with the youth. We saw this year with the addition of Tryamkin and Stecher, you know, a bit of depth on the backend. We are going to continue to build that fast, Skilled group of young forwards that we all know what we need to get to. I just think it's a matter of how fast it happens, and that's been a challenge for some.

Jesus lord mercy that's a lot to type out. Linden sure likes to fluf. But I tried to cut out as many ums and uhs.

 

[Mal Reynolds]

I was hoping it was a Linden quote.

For sure. Me too. I'm with you ROE, I'd like to have some clarification on what direction they're planning on taking myself. In and of themselves, neither trade means rebuild. Naturally, the optimist in me hopes this is proof positive of a rebuild, while the cynic doubts that it has actually begun, and if it has, whether it will be effective (and those in charge of such a process). Meanwhile, the realist in me knows that everything that comes out of these guy's mouths matters precious little, and that the direction of this club will become readily apparent in time through their actions

What can I say, I'm a paranoid android

 

[Nucker101]

https://soundcloud.com/tsn-radio-va...ing-our-group-by-adding-youth-skill-prospects

At around 1:45













Jesus lord mercy that's a lot to type out. Linden sure likes to fluf. But I tried to cut out as many ums and uhs.

Thanks for this. Sounds more and more like they've finally committed to the future completely and are okay with missing the playoffs.

 

[Bleach Clean]

Your logic is amusing. If Goldobin and Dahlen aren't "futures" I don't know what they are. They certainly weren't brought in for the playoff push this year. We traded a player 10 years older for Godldobin, we traded an asset 3 years younger for Sven. Somehow that's the same...

I'm off to bed so enjoy your backwards logic.

"Pure Futures". Not just "Futures".

Baertschi was still a future piece because he hadn't cracked the NHL yet. Was he a pick though? No.

From the Baertschi deal to the Goldobin deal, it's still trading for assets closer to the NHL than Pure Futures would have been. That's the difference. This team has yet to deal an expiring asset for a purely pick based return. It hasn't happened, and therefore this is not a rebuild.

 

[valkynax]

I still don't see this as a start of a radical change to managements plans. Benning explicitly reaffirmed his commitment to the vets in his post deadline press conference, and also stated he didn't expect to add more picks before the draft.

This is just what teams that find themselves thoroughly out of the picture in late February do. Dallas, St Louis, and Tampa all "sold" at the deadline, yet none of those teams are aiming to undergo a long term period of funneling out older assets for prospects and picks. They all (I assume), aim to come back and compete strongly next season.

We'll see how the off-season goes, but I would temper my expectations regarding any sort of sea change in the overall strategy of management.

To me the TDL was like a drop of blood in a tank of piranhas - it gives the fans hope. If Linden Benning thinks this little show gonna allow them to continue their idiotic plan, the fans will tear them into pieces.

 

[Tryforthekingdom]

Originally Posted by Linden
Term it how you want, we always knew we had to transition the team into a younger group. I think when we came, we recognized where this group was and after our first year when we had a 101 points, we traded 2 veterans for draft picks that summer. At every point we tried to improve this group by getting younger and adding more skill and developing a bigger prospect pool. So that's always been our goal, I guess the terminology, you can say what you want. But I think we've known that this is a path we were heading down, and this just carried on.

Everything Linden and Benning say indicates that they believe this past deadline was simply a continuation of their ongoing strategy. They want to integrate young players, which is great, but they seem unwilling to act drastically to do so. If we were a playoff team trying to extend a cup window, this is feasible. But this team is bad, and just making small moves here and there won't ever make a sizable difference.

 

[ProstheticConscience]

That would make a lot of sense, but why would Friedman expand on something Linden never even intimated?

Dammit, I was really hoping that was a Linden quote myself. It raised the hope he'd managed to grasp the bleeding obvious, but sadly it wasn't to be.

I guess that's the lesson of this TDL. One baby step in the right direction is better than no steps.

 

[Bleach Clean]

For sure. Me too. I'm with you ROE, I'd like to have some clarification on what direction they're planning on taking myself. In and of themselves, neither trade means rebuild. Naturally, the optimist in me hopes this is proof positive of a rebuild, while the cynic doubts that it has actually begun, and if it has, whether it will be effective (and those in charge of such a process). Meanwhile, the realist in me knows that everything that comes out of these guy's mouths matters precious little, and that the direction of this club will become readily apparent in time through their actions

What can I say, I'm a paranoid android

I don't think you are being paranoid. Management has flip-flopped in the media so many times that interviewers are still asking them what the plan is... That should provide insight right there.

https://soundcloud.com/tsn-radio-va...ing-our-group-by-adding-youth-skill-prospects

At around 1:45

Jesus lord mercy that's a lot to type out. Linden sure likes to fluf. But I tried to cut out as many ums and uhs.

Thank you for transcribing all of that WTG. Appreciated.

To me, this sounds like a continuation of what they have already done. I think there are a few reasons for this. He talks about continuation of his original vision. He uses some terms to assuage the fear of the common fan, but just goes right back into the fluff. Do you read this different WTG?

 

[Love]

Wow... management is finally saying the right things...

 

[WTG]

Originally Posted by Linden
Term it how you want, we always knew we had to transition the team into a younger group. I think when we came, we recognized where this group was and after our first year when we had a 101 points, we traded 2 veterans for draft picks that summer. At every point we tried to improve this group by getting younger and adding more skill and developing a bigger prospect pool. So that's always been our goal, I guess the terminology, you can say what you want. But I think we've known that this is a path we were heading down, and this just carried on.

Everything Linden and Benning say indicates that they believe this past deadline was simply a continuation of their ongoing strategy. They want to integrate young players, which is great, but they seem unwilling to act drastically to do so. If we were a playoff team trying to extend a cup window, this is feasible. But this team is bad, and just making small moves here and there won't ever make a sizable difference.

From this:

Yeah, I think there's a realization that... that... and I think that there for us there's always recognize that... that... Due to certain contract language and veteran players its taken longer then people wanted. But I think we always knew we were in this transition period. And working through certain situations, and so. But I do believe that we have gotten a really intelligent fanbase, they understand the game. That makes us better. So when we look at this group, we are getting to where we need to get to with the youth. We saw this year with the addition of Tryamkin and Stecher, you know, a bit of depth on the backend. We are going to continue to build that fast, Skilled group of young forwards that we all know what we need to get to. I just think it's a matter of how fast it happens, and that's been a challenge for some.

It also sounds like they finally approached the players and that they were hamstrung of the language they could use because of the players. I really think the deadline starts a new direction for the team.

 

[Verviticus]

Thanks for this. Sounds more and more like they've finally committed to the future completely and are okay with missing the playoffs.

in that vein, i'm ok with not being a billionaire and also im feeling generous, im ok with not being an nhl player