Post-Game Talk: #3 - Sharks @ Rangers

[Brooklyn Rangers Fan]

My personal agenda is that I want to see young Rangers players doing well. On balance so far that's going well. Kreider especially so since he is showing for real what many of us thought he had the potential to deliver. This is exactly what I've wanted from him since he first stepped on the ice in our jersey. On the other side of that is McIlrath. Who is a player with the kind of toughness I've felt the organization badly needed. But I understand that is just an opinion on my part. It's also my opinion that toughness is a dirty word to some around here. He's a good kid with lot's of heart who's worked very hard and played very well last year. But now he's having a difficult time adapting to our current system. Love the system. Hate that he's probably all but left behind. It is what it is. Take the good with the bad and move on.

Fair enough, Pizza.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

My personal agenda is that I want to see young Rangers players doing well. On balance so far that's going well. Kreider especially so since he is showing for real what many of us thought he had the potential to deliver. This is exactly what I've wanted from him since he first stepped on the ice in our jersey. On the other side of that is McIlrath. Who is a player with the kind of toughness I've felt the organization badly needed. But I understand that is just an opinion on my part. It's also my opinion that toughness is a dirty word to some around here. He's a good kid with lot's of heart who's worked very hard and played very well last year. But now he's having a difficult time adapting to our current system. Love the system. Hate that he's probably all but left behind. It is what it is. Take the good with the bad and move on.

I don't think toughness in it of itself is a bad word, it's toughness for the sake of toughness. Also some people that liked the hockey of 20/30/40 ago and don't understand that the game is changed overrate players like McIlrath and get really angry when AV doesn't play him.

 

[ZiGOODejad]

Now that's it's a day later most of these votes are in I'm looking at the poll like some of these dudes were definitely watching this game with some rose colored glasses on.

 

[Deleted member 23124]

My personal agenda is that I want to see young Rangers players doing well. On balance so far that's going well. Kreider especially so since he is showing for real what many of us thought he had the potential to deliver. This is exactly what I've wanted from him since he first stepped on the ice in our jersey. On the other side of that is McIlrath. Who is a player with the kind of toughness I've felt the organization badly needed. But I understand that is just an opinion on my part. It's also my opinion that toughness is a dirty word to some around here. He's a good kid with lot's of heart who's worked very hard and played very well last year. But now he's having a difficult time adapting to our current system. Love the system. Hate that he's probably all but left behind. It is what it is. Take the good with the bad and move on.

I don't think it's the system that's the problem...I believe it's trying to play a totally different style from what he's accustomed to playing. He now has to ignore his instincts -- this IMO leads to too much thinking. At this level, that's a recipe for disaster (look at Kreider last year -- WAY to much thinking and very little consistency).

 

[smoneil]

Agreed. Funny how so much of the team looks good, and so many people are so hung up on defending the few guys who were mediocre at best because of personal agendas.

Your high horse would be a lot more compelling if not for the fact that AV's playbook is exactly the same. How many high end d-men does he have to chase out of town (after killing their trade value) before you start to see that he sucks at recognizing good d-men from bad?

I'll go on record now that if AV is allowed to chase McIlrath out of town (like he did to MDZ, Stralman, and Yandle), McI will be seen as a high end 2nd pairing d-man with a lot of trade value (for his new team) by the end of next season at the latest.

And again, I AM excited about the potential of the forward corps, but don't pretend that the score from last night's game was that far apart. AV's decisions tilted the game against the Rangers. What SHOULD have been a comfortable win turned into a 1 goal squeaker with a pair of empty net goals to make it look like a bigger win than it was. I'm thrilled with the W, but last year should have taught all of us that the way those W's happen is a truer gauge of the team's potential than merely the number of W's they rack up.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

Your high horse would be a lot more compelling if not for the fact that AV's playbook is exactly the same. How many high end d-men does he have to chase out of town (after killing their trade value) before you start to see that he sucks at recognizing good d-men from bad?

I'll go on record now that if AV is allowed to chase McIlrath out of town (like he did to MDZ, Stralman, and Yandle), McI will be seen as a high end 2nd pairing d-man with a lot of trade value (for his new team) by the end of next season at the latest.

And again, I AM excited about the potential of the forward corps, but don't pretend that the score from last night's game was that far apart. AV's decisions tilted the game against the Rangers. What SHOULD have been a comfortable win turned into a 1 goal squeaker with a pair of empty net goals to make it look like a bigger win than it was. I'm thrilled with the W, but last year should have taught all of us that the way those W's happen is a truer gauge of the team's potential than merely the number of W's they rack up.

From the 2.5 games I watched (missed the first half of the Blues game) I think we've played a lot better defensively for most of the time than we did last season to start the season. We just haven't been good in 3rd periods with a lead. That's obviously a problem but I think the D has been promising the rest of the time.

 

[Deleted member 23124]

Your high horse would be a lot more compelling if not for the fact that AV's playbook is exactly the same. How many high end d-men does he have to chase out of town (after killing their trade value) before you start to see that he sucks at recognizing good d-men from bad?

I'll go on record now that if AV is allowed to chase McIlrath out of town (like he did to MDZ, Stralman, and Yandle), McI will be seen as a high end 2nd pairing d-man with a lot of trade value (for his new team) by the end of next season at the latest.

And again, I AM excited about the potential of the forward corps, but don't pretend that the score from last night's game was that far apart. AV's decisions tilted the game against the Rangers. What SHOULD have been a comfortable win turned into a 1 goal squeaker with a pair of empty net goals to make it look like a bigger win than it was. I'm thrilled with the W, but last year should have taught all of us that the way those W's happen is a truer gauge of the team's potential than merely the number of W's they rack up.

MDZ a high-end defenseman? When?

 

[smoneil]

From the 2.5 games I watched (missed the first half of the Blues game) I think we've played a lot better defensively for most of the time than we did last season to start the season. We just haven't been good in 3rd periods with a lead. That's obviously a problem but I think the D has been promising the rest of the time.

While it hasn't been quite as bad as last season, I've still seen far too many opposition forwards setting up shop in the slot with acres of real estate.

That said, three games isn't a huge sample size, so I'm willing to give it a bit more time.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

While it hasn't been quite as bad as last season, I've still seen far too many opposition forwards setting up shop in the slot with acres of real estate.

That said, three games isn't a huge sample size, so I'm willing to give it a bit more time.

I feel like most of those breakdowns happened in one period a game. I thought the Rangers were very solid in the first two periods against the Isles and Sharks.

 

[smoneil]

MDZ a high-end defenseman? When?

Maybe when he was receiving Norris votes the year he spent most of the season on our 2nd pair? Maybe the last two seasons, where he's been a top-pair defenseman for a playoff team?

I get it. The fans of this team decided to convince themselves that MDZ was a glorified scrub in 2 jackets. But after all the oh so amusing quips and insults, it's worth taking the time to look at his actual career. When you do so, you'll notice that the only truly awful year of his career was the one that he spent under AV's coaching. MDZ would easily be the 2nd best defenseman on this roster.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

Maybe when he was receiving Norris votes the year he spent most of the season on our 2nd pair? Maybe the last two seasons, where he's been a top-pair defenseman for a playoff team?

I get it. The fans of this team decided to convince themselves that MDZ was a glorified scrub in 2 jackets. But after all the oh so amusing quips and insults, it's worth taking the time to look at his actual career. When you do so, you'll notice that the only truly awful year of his career was the one that he spent under AV's coaching. MDZ would easily be the 2nd best defenseman on this roster.

Last year Dan Girardi was a top pairing defenseman for a 100 point team...

 

[smoneil]

I feel like most of those breakdowns happened in one period a game. I thought the Rangers were very solid in the first two periods against the Isles and Sharks.

I agree, though I don't want to see those kinds of breakdowns at all, and certainly not every game.

But again, the sample size is small, and we've had a lot of injuries to deal with. I have no problem giving it more time. I just don't want to see the team lose ANOTHER potentially good young defenseman to AV's biases. If this team is firing on all cylinders by New Years and those break downs have been dealt with, by all means, extend AV's contract and get something for McI. I just don't want to see McI moved only forAV to be fired and McIto blossom for another team.

 

[smoneil]

Last year Dan Girardi was a top pairing defenseman for a 100 point team...

And he sucked, and had his minutes/role reduced, and was replaced by a guy who has been a career 2nd/3rd pair tweener.

Losing Del Zotto was a blow to the Flyers down the stretch. He's been a key player for them, even on the PK. But I don't plan to fight that fight again. People here despise Del Zotto, and most refuse to even consider the fact that he was only truly bad under AV.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

And he sucked, and had his minutes/role reduced, and was replaced by a guy who has been a career 2nd/3rd pair tweener.

Losing Del Zotto was a blow to the Flyers down the stretch. He's been a key player for them, even on the PK. But I don't plan to fight that fight again. People here despise Del Zotto, and most refuse to even consider the fact that he was only truly bad under AV.

There's a big gap between despising MDZ and thinking he was a great player. He was a good player that got too much ****, but nothing super special. I'm happy the way the trade turned out. Also, him sucking under AV is no badge of honor.

 

[TheTakedown]

Why would we want Bödker back? He's not good at all, it would be a massive downgrade without saving cap space.

I actually like boedker and I think he'd fit this system really well. Similar player to Hagelin

 

[Ori]

AV benched Buch already?

 

[YoSoyLalo]

AV benched Buch already?

He was ourt with back spasms.

 

[Ori]

He was ourt with back spasms.

Hehe, with other words he was benched he did that with Nucks many times - if someone had some glaring mistakes in some games - AV mentioned flu and day to day for example `new` player next day in the lineup.
I just hope they dont recall Glass. I enjoy watching the 4th line at the moment without him.

 

[Raspewtin]

Agreed. Funny how so much of the team looks good, and so many people are so hung up on defending the few guys who were mediocre at best because of personal agendas.

Probably because everybody knows this game was probably an (unjustified) death sentence for our only decent RHD prospect while Skjei got to **** himself unpunished for 20 minutes.

 

[Placid]

He was ourt with back spasms.

The good old groin concussion ?

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

Your high horse would be a lot more compelling if not for the fact that AV's playbook is exactly the same. How many high end d-men does he have to chase out of town (after killing their trade value) before you start to see that he sucks at recognizing good d-men from bad?

I'll go on record now that if AV is allowed to chase McIlrath out of town (like he did to MDZ, Stralman, and Yandle), McI will be seen as a high end 2nd pairing d-man with a lot of trade value (for his new team) by the end of next season at the latest.

And again, I AM excited about the potential of the forward corps, but don't pretend that the score from last night's game was that far apart. AV's decisions tilted the game against the Rangers. What SHOULD have been a comfortable win turned into a 1 goal squeaker with a pair of empty net goals to make it look like a bigger win than it was. I'm thrilled with the W, but last year should have taught all of us that the way those W's happen is a truer gauge of the team's potential than merely the number of W's they rack up.

You are conflating many nuanced issues here and projecting them all on the coach. I can't say it's surprising since you're one of the leading cheap shot artists when it comes to AV. Stralman and Yandle were contractual issues more than anything. It's low, even for you, to push a narrative that AV "ran them out of town." Does AV get some credit for rescuing Stralman's career from the scrap heap? Didn't think so.

I'll flag your McIlrath prediction because my hunch is you're going to be wrong. Embarassingly so. Then again, if/when McIlrath can't crack a lineup elsewhere, I'm sure you'll just use the convenient and lazy excuse that evil AV ruined his career.

 

[ManUtdTobbe]

I actually like boedker and I think he'd fit this system really well. Similar player to Hagelin

He is similar to Hagelin, just that he is a much worse 'possession'-player, much worse PKer but he can play decently on the PP, want no part of him at all for $4m.

 

[Brooklyn Rangers Fan]

Look, I disliked the McIlrath pick when it was made, but since he became part of the team, I've rooted for his success, since after all, there was no way to go back and undo the mistake. I've watched him a fair bit in Hartford in addition to his play with the Rangers, and when he's been good, I have said so. He improved in HFD. He did a fairly respectable job during his extended run last year. He was one of the better defensemen in the first preseason game when both squads included a ton of invites and AHLers. But outside of that, he's been bad too - including every game this year AFTER the first PS game. And while he does have good aspects to his game (subtle passes in the d-zone, bomb from the point, straight ahead speed, size & strength), he also has his issues (pivoting, covering forwards 1-on-1 on the rush, lateral movement, decision making, awareness of game situation), which are significant and which, whenever they seem to improve, constantly regress once again. He's 24 1/2. He isn't some special bundle of talent (maybe he was and was derailed by that first injury, but if so, it is what it is), he's a middling prospect who right now is looking like a bottom pair D, IF he makes it at all. And he's on the cusp of no longer being a prospect. Maybe a change of situation and a new start will help him. But as it is, this is a guy who's not working out here and who is responsible for his own short leash, because he keeps screwing up when given a chance. The angst over him when the rest of the team is playing well (including other defensemen like McD, Staal, Clendening, and Skjei in his first two games) is incredibly frustrating, and honestly is building into an echo chamber, so if I'm "on a high horse" about it, that's why.

 

[Ori]

Dylan McI. might end up in a package for a Trouba move @Bleed Ranger Blue.
Yeah, I really doubt Dylan McI will end up as 2nd pairing d-man end of next season.

 

[True Blue]

My personal agenda is that I want to see young Rangers players doing well. On balance so far that's going well. Kreider especially so since he is showing for real what many of us thought he had the potential to deliver. This is exactly what I've wanted from him since he first stepped on the ice in our jersey. On the other side of that is McIlrath. Who is a player with the kind of toughness I've felt the organization badly needed. But I understand that is just an opinion on my part. It's also my opinion that toughness is a dirty word to some around here. He's a good kid with lot's of heart who's worked very hard and played very well last year. But now he's having a difficult time adapting to our current system. Love the system. Hate that he's probably all but left behind. It is what it is. Take the good with the bad and move on.

It does seem like toughness seems to get derided and mocked here (que the "tofness" responses). I view McILrath as a player who can play the third pairing while also providing toughness if you will. That is not toughness for the sake of toughness, that is being able to take a competent shift and having the extra element to your game. Not to mention that he actually has a great shot from the point.

I also agree with the thought that AV's decision making when it comes to player personnel leaves much to be desired. Seemingly this is only heightened when it comes to defensemen.

With regards to the forwards (and I know that you did not say this), but before we anoint them as the best group since 1994, let's give it a little more than 3 games. IMO, it is FAR to early to tell. I like what I see for the most part, but it is too early to tell.