2nd Overall pick moving?

[ThrashersGM]

Rumour has it that GM has for the second year in a row traded their last pick. The fans in Atlanta are nervous but excited, especially since last year the Thrashers traded their first pick for Norris Nominated, Olympic star Drew Doughty. This year Archer went out looking to solidify the last foundation peice of the team. With Calder winning Steve Stamkos at center and speedy winger Jakub Voracek on wing the Thrashers are starting to show signs of an offencive flair. With Doughty, Foster, Jones and O'Byrne on defence the Thrashers have a decent top four defence in place, now un-named sources are saying that GM Ryan Archer has locked up a bonifide starter who has proven he can win. With these pieces locked in long term the Thrashers have something to get excited about. If this is true many believe that Archer will be active in free agency trying to lock down some veteran talent to make a push at returning to the playoffs.

Un-named sources say that GM Archer has been talking to several GMs including:
The Flyers, who currently have Halak, Elliott and Howard in their system. The Avalanche who have Gigeure in their system. The Devils, who have Fleury and Smith in thier system. It is rumoured that the Thrashers have made a deal for one of these goalies. Stay tuned to find out if this rumour is true.

Click to read more...

 

[Fooladelfia]

Rumour has it that GM has for the second year in a row traded their last pick. The fans in Atlanta are nervous but excited, especially since last year the Thrashers traded their first pick for Norris Nominated, Olympic star Drew Doughty. This year Archer went out looking to solidify the last foundation peice of the team. With Calder winning Steve Stamkos at center and speedy winger Jakub Voracek on wing the Thrashers are starting to show signs of an offencive flair. With Doughty, Foster, Jones and O'Byrne on defence the Thrashers have a decent top four defence in place, now un-named sources are saying that GM Ryan Archer has locked up a bonifide starter who has proven he can win. With these pieces locked in long term the Thrashers have something to get excited about. If this is true many believe that Archer will be active in free agency trying to lock down some veteran talent to make a push at returning to the playoffs.

Un-named sources say that GM Archer has been talking to several GMs including:
The Flyers, who currently have Halak, Elliott and Howard in their system. The Avalanche who have Gigeure in their system. The Devils, who have Fleury and Smith in thier system. It is rumoured that the Thrashers have made a deal for one of these goalies. Stay tuned to find out if this rumour is true.

Not me and Howard gone.

 

[Vagrant]

With no immediate replacement, it's a risky move for the Devils and Avalanche alike to make this move. Great goaltenders are hard to find, even in free agency, so the price may be high. It's going to be interesting to see the details of this one! Nice aggressive move!

Additionally, I see that the Devils GM is away for the weekend. Hmm....

 

[Canuck09]

With no immediate replacement, it's a risky move for the Devils and Avalanche alike to make this move. Great goaltenders are hard to find, even in free agency, so the price may be high. It's going to be interesting to see the details of this one! Nice aggressive move!

Additionally, I see that the Devils GM is away for the weekend. Hmm....

Very interesting indeed. The Flyers seem like the obvious choice given the teams listed regardless of what Alvaro has posted. Is Howard worth the 2nd overall pick though? Tough one.

Nabokov is available in trade talks if you're after a goalie!

 

[Vagrant]

Very interesting indeed. The Flyers seem like the obvious choice given the teams listed regardless of what Alvaro has posted. Is Howard worth the 2nd overall pick though? Tough one.

Nabokov is available in trade talks if you're after a goalie!

Alvaro and I have an agree in principal for Howard, so he's going to have some explaining to do if he goes back on that. We made a virtual handshake!

I know he's not going to do that though, but Elliott may be in play here if Alvaro is just trying to pull one over on us.

 

[Fooladelfia]

Alvaro and I have an agree in principal for Howard, so he's going to have some explaining to do if he goes back on that. We made a virtual handshake!

I know he's not going to do that though, but Elliott may be in play here if Alvaro is just trying to pull one over on us.

It's not with the Flyers

 

[Ohio Jones]

It's not with the Flyers

Too bad, then - that's one market fewer for your glut of goalies.

 

[Fooladelfia]

Too bad, then - that's one market fewer for your glut of goalies.

Why?? Howard already trade ...I got my starter and back up in Halak and Elliott Don't need to trade more goalies.

 

[Hossa]

Just to reiterate, because we woke up to a trade submission, the DoPP office is closed. There is no trading between the deadline and the end of the playoffs. People are free to negotiate, shake hands, as much as they would like, obviously, but there is a freeze.

*takes off DoPP hat, puts on GM hat*

It's also worth noting that since the playoffs are nowhere near concluding, and as many as 8 GMs are still caught up in that, the trade market is at best incomplete. I know personally I'm not talking trades until my season is over, and I definitely will be active once it is.

 

[MatthewFlames]

It's also worth noting that since the playoffs are nowhere near concluding, and as many as 8 GMs are still caught up in that, the trade market is at best incomplete. I know personally I'm not talking trades until my season is over, and I definitely will be active once it is.

To add: it's best to market and get the most for your players. I know for sure that there is one of the playoff teams other than the Flames in the goalie market this off season, that one of the recently eliminated teams has said they will, and there is possibility the Flames enter the goalie market depending on how far we go, and wheher we can afford the huge contract we have to give Backstrom next year. A decision I can't make until we are eliminated and I can gauge where I am and if I can sign my pending UFA's etc.

So, my point of asking is how can you get the most for your players when you trade them without talking to all the teams in the market? This doesn't just go for now, but at any time. Trading now is a bad time as well because we don't even have any idea of what's available for free agency... Given the lists are not up to date and players are still being signed.

 

[ThrashersGM]

Ageed there is some risk to talking trades now, there isn't really much to do for teams that haven't made the playoffs to do. I realize that I shouldn't have submited the deal, that's my bad, just a little bit excited. However, there are few goaltenders that fit the bill and I had posted on the board that I was interested in dealing the pick. Many teams, including playoff teams, contacted me. A trade freeze may be in place but that does not mean I can't talk trades and make deals in principle. If the team that I made a deal with decides to back out, there is little recourse for me and that is part of the risk of talking trades now. Talking trades is a way for me to stay interested in the league while I wait for the playoffs to end.

 

[SPG]

Interesting...I may have missed it, but I didn't realize the #2 pick was available. I probably would have put in an offer.

 

[Fooladelfia]

Ageed there is some risk to talking trades now, there isn't really much to do for teams that haven't made the playoffs to do. I realize that I shouldn't have submited the deal, that's my bad, just a little bit excited. However, there are few goaltenders that fit the bill and I had posted on the board that I was interested in dealing the pick. Many teams, including playoff teams, contacted me. A trade freeze may be in place but that does not mean I can't talk trades and make deals in principle. If the team that I made a deal with decides to back out, there is little recourse for me and that is part of the risk of talking trades now. Talking trades is a way for me to stay interested in the league while I wait for the playoffs to end.

me too

 

[kasper11]

So, my point of asking is how can you get the most for your players when you trade them without talking to all the teams in the market? This doesn't just go for now, but at any time. Trading now is a bad time as well because we don't even have any idea of what's available for free agency... Given the lists are not up to date and players are still being signed.

But this works both ways...

As the other party in this deal, when I saw the pick was available I jumped. Likewise, when Atlanta saw that Fleury was available, he pulled the trigger. Could either of us have gotten more? Maybe. But, on the other hand, both of us were looking for a specific asset which is in limited quantity. There are only a few young, established goalies in the league, and only a few truly elite prospects. Not many of either come on the market. For all either of us knew, this could have been the only chance to make the deal.

Assume that you are correct, and one of us could have gotten more by waiting. By definition, that means that the other would have lost the opportunity to get an asset at a bargain price. By making the deal now, we are each guaranteed to get the asset we wanted (so long as we both trust the other to honor the deal).

 

[The old geezer]

Just to reiterate, because we woke up to a trade submission, the DoPP office is closed. There is no trading between the deadline and the end of the playoffs.

Somewhere I missed something. Is there a trade freeze b/c the DoPP is unavailable or a rule change? In the past (both NHL and HFNHL) trades among eliminated teams were valid and accepted.

I agree that it's generally in a GM's best interest (especially if you're the seller) to wait until all 30 GM's are available to talk trade but, that aside, why aren't trades among eliminated trades being allowed?

 

[Fooladelfia]

Somewhere I missed something. Is there a trade freeze b/c the DoPP is unavailable or a rule change? In the past (both NHL and HFNHL) trades among eliminated teams were valid and accepted.

I agree that it's generally in a GM's best interest (especially if you're the seller) to wait until all 30 GM's are available to talk trade but, that aside, why aren't trades among eliminated trades being allowed?

They are not allowed ...Gm's have an agreement between us only. But like a men we have to honor our agreement. I think we are all men here. Josh he's a men ....from what I saw I'm sure all the other gm's too.

 

[Canuck09]

But this works both ways...

As the other party in this deal, when I saw the pick was available I jumped. Likewise, when Atlanta saw that Fleury was available, he pulled the trigger. Could either of us have gotten more? Maybe. But, on the other hand, both of us were looking for a specific asset which is in limited quantity. There are only a few young, established goalies in the league, and only a few truly elite prospects. Not many of either come on the market. For all either of us knew, this could have been the only chance to make the deal.

Assume that you are correct, and one of us could have gotten more by waiting. By definition, that means that the other would have lost the opportunity to get an asset at a bargain price. By making the deal now, we are each guaranteed to get the asset we wanted (so long as we both trust the other to honor the deal).

There goes the speculation, very interesting! I'm looking forward to seeing if it was a straight up swap or if there's more involved.

 

[kasper11]

There goes the speculation, very interesting! I'm looking forward to seeing if it was a straight up swap or if there's more involved.

There was more.

 

[Hossa]

Somewhere I missed something. Is there a trade freeze b/c the DoPP is unavailable or a rule change? In the past (both NHL and HFNHL) trades among eliminated teams were valid and accepted.

I agree that it's generally in a GM's best interest (especially if you're the seller) to wait until all 30 GM's are available to talk trade but, that aside, why aren't trades among eliminated trades being allowed?

Maybe it's me who missed something (or assumed something). I had assumed that like the NHL trade deadline, the post-deadline freeze in the HFNHL carries over to the end of the playoffs. The logic doesn't have to be whether it's in the GM's best interest, that just seems to be how trade deadlines work, for any number of reasons I would say. Are you sure NHL trades can be processed while the playoffs are still going on? And if it is technically allowed, what would you make of the fact it is almost unheard of.

IN terms of our league, I'm not sure either. Last year there were none between mid-March until June 18th (according to the trade blog at least). There were trades in May in 2008 though, but I don't remember when the season ended. If people want to have a discussion about the trade freeze, I guess we can. I was under the impression that the NHL freeze continued, and therefore so would ours. Even if in the NHL it was more about convention than specific rules, I would personally prefer to not have to work on trades during the playoffs.

 

[The old geezer]

Maybe it's me who missed something (or assumed something). I had assumed that like the NHL trade deadline, the post-deadline freeze in the HFNHL carries over to the end of the playoffs. The logic doesn't have to be whether it's in the GM's best interest, that just seems to be how trade deadlines work, for any number of reasons I would say. Are you sure NHL trades can be processed while the playoffs are still going on? And if it is technically allowed, what would you make of the fact it is almost unheard of.

Well hence the reason I sort of posed it as a question. Maybe for our league we had already applied the extended no trade freeze and I missed it but in the past we have had players traded while the play-offs were still going. It only sticks in my memory b/c there were a couple of occassions where 'trade blocks' went up and the player got traded before I even had a chance to send an offer b/c the Wings were still in.

As for the NHL you're right it's become almost unheard of in recent years but then again I think there's only been one or two trades before draft day period so I'm not sure what to make of that. I'm honestly not sure if there was a change in the new CBA that I'm not aware of as it had been slightly more frequent before the lock out. As I recall many of those involved trades of pending UFA's to either try and sign or for rebuilding teams to acquire the potential UFA compensation pick.

No big deal I guess.

 

[SPG]

But this works both ways...

As the other party in this deal, when I saw the pick was available I jumped. Likewise, when Atlanta saw that Fleury was available, he pulled the trigger. Could either of us have gotten more? Maybe. But, on the other hand, both of us were looking for a specific asset which is in limited quantity. There are only a few young, established goalies in the league, and only a few truly elite prospects. Not many of either come on the market. For all either of us knew, this could have been the only chance to make the deal.

Assume that you are correct, and one of us could have gotten more by waiting. By definition, that means that the other would have lost the opportunity to get an asset at a bargain price. By making the deal now, we are each guaranteed to get the asset we wanted (so long as we both trust the other to honor the deal).

Interesting...as a division rival I'm very curious to see how this deal plays out. Especially with Mike Smith being the only other G on the Devils roster and I don't see any goaltenders of any real value on Atlanta's roster that could be going the other way.

 

[Canuck09]

Interesting...as a division rival I'm very curious to see how this deal plays out. Especially with Mike Smith being the only other G on the Devils roster and I don't see any goaltenders of any real value on Atlanta's roster that could be going the other way.

I'm very curious as a non division rival! Be interesting to see who managed to convince who their side was worth that much more and how the balancing played out.

 

[MatthewFlames]

In the past (both NHL and HFNHL) trades among eliminated teams were valid and accepted.

That would be a little unfair.... if there is no trade freeze then any team should be able to trade. Playoffs teams shouldn't be punished because they haven't been eliminated. And if there is no trade freeze and any team can trade, then isn't it odd that I can trade players who are still playing? Hence why I think the trade freeze is in effect - for all teams. I'm sure there will be a lot of trades before the draft, but I imagine those will be in the period after the last Stanley Cup final game and the draft, which will be a few weeks, and probably include the trades we're discussing on these boards.

 

[Hossa]

Well hence the reason I sort of posed it as a question. Maybe for our league we had already applied the extended no trade freeze and I missed it but in the past we have had players traded while the play-offs were still going. It only sticks in my memory b/c there were a couple of occassions where 'trade blocks' went up and the player got traded before I even had a chance to send an offer b/c the Wings were still in.

As for the NHL you're right it's become almost unheard of in recent years but then again I think there's only been one or two trades before draft day period so I'm not sure what to make of that. I'm honestly not sure if there was a change in the new CBA that I'm not aware of as it had been slightly more frequent before the lock out. As I recall many of those involved trades of pending UFA's to either try and sign or for rebuilding teams to acquire the potential UFA compensation pick.

No big deal I guess.

I honestly don't remember anything one way or the other about the HFNHL. If I was ever aware we could trade during the playoffs, I have honestly forgotten about it. In the NHL, I do very vaguely remember that it used to happen occasionally, although I think it's the NBA where it actually happens more than once in a blue moon.

Either way, I don't see any logical reason why trades should be allowed during the playoffs. Boredom and impatience obviously aren't good reasons to make a trade in general, nor good logical foundations for rules. It would be unfair to teams still competing, and honestly, as half-DoPP I don't really want to deal with trades while I'm in the playoffs, nor should a trade freeze only be lifted once both of the two-headed DoPP monster is out of the playoffs. Maybe that's because I already spend a couple hours a day over-analyzing potential line combinations right now though.

The only reason to allow trades, IMO, was if the draft was going to happen a couple days after we were scheduled to finish the season. Even then, a freeze doesn't prevent negotiation, but still, I could almost see that. But considering we're on pace to have a few weeks between the Cup finals and the draft, no team could possibly feel squeezed for time before the draft, considering how quickly trades can go down in this league. All in all, the lesson would be to clarify this in the rule book though, I guess.

 

[kasper11]

http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=775782

Well, our question about the NHL has been answered.

That being said, no reason we can't continue our trade freeze for the benefit of the DOPP.