OT: 2024 Washington Commanders off-season thread: change we can believe in!

Assuming Caleb Williams goes number 1, who is your QB pick at number 2?

  • JJ McCarthy

    Votes: 6 19.4%
  • Jaden Daniels

    Votes: 13 41.9%
  • Drake Maye

    Votes: 12 38.7%

  • Total voters
    31

ynotcaps

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I’m amazed that everyone is more nervous about Drake Maye working out his footwork than they are Daniels obvious risk of serious injury.

It’s like Twilight Zone shit fr.
Twilight Zone that a team would pick the guy who "every scout, GM and coach says" is better over the guy they all say he's better than? I think you were watching a different TZ.

BTW, I'm still pissed about the whole "penthouse spread" ruse...
 
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EroCaps

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Twilight Zone that a team would pick the guy who "every scout, GM and coach says" is better over the guy they all say he's better than? I think you were watching a different TZ.

BTW, I'm still pissed about the whole "penthouse spread" ruse...
Yeah, yeah. And you can find a ton of those same guys who think Maye has the higher ceiling, I’d wager.

Daniels 2023 tape is great. It’s also college ball playing with elite WRs as a 5th year starter.

Go back and read the scouting reports on Mahomes, Rodgers and Herbert, among others.

They get it wrong all the time.

I’m just shocked at how many are totally blowing off his frame as if there’s a single guy his size that has won a title in January.
 

Chokingdogs

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What time will all this drama end tomorrow? I could look it up myself but…I don’t feel like it, and I’m enthralled with galaxy quest, for probably the 67th time.

Never give up! Never surrender!!
 
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usiel

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Great interview. If we somehow end up drafting him, I'll be excited even though he's not my first choice. And great googley moogley, she's got quite a nice penthouse spread there, grand piano and all that. Meanwhile he's in a Lowes in Detroit :laugh:
Have to admit even though I generally feel like I become a better person as I age my lizard brain kicked in with a first take of that the word penthouse was capitalized.
 

ynotcaps

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What time will all this drama end tomorrow? I could look it up myself but…I don’t feel like it, and I’m enthralled with galaxy quest, for probably the 67th time.

Never give up! Never surrender!!
8:00. And I'll be in a new place (we're closing tomorrow) with no wifi. Will be learning the local bar scene on night 1!
 
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ynotcaps

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Yeah, yeah. And you can find a ton of those same guys who think Maye has the higher ceiling, I’d wager.

Daniels 2023 tape is great. It’s also college ball playing with elite WRs as a 5th year starter.

Go back and read the scouting reports on Mahomes, Rodgers and Herbert, among others.

They get it wrong all the time.

I’m just shocked at how many are totally blowing off his frame as if there’s a single guy his size that has won a title in January.
The only way AP should get fired is if he let's collective hysteria over the Ghost of RG3 push him into drafting scared.
 

ynotcaps

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For those who are interested in insights from people with actual credentials, this guy is the Dir. of Football Ops and Player Personnel for the East-West Shrine Bowl and founder of a scouting service. (Yeah, I know, "Shrine Bowl? He's not even good enough to get the Senior Bowl!")



Excerpts:
"But even the most bullish evaluators on Daniels didn't predict that he would make the seismic leap toward reaching his previously untapped potential in just one offseason.

Over the past 20 years, only one other quarterback has seen similar substantial development year over year: fellow LSU alum Joe Burrow.

Burrow and Daniels are the only two quarterbacks in the last 20 years (minimum 400 drop backs) that increased their adjusted completion percentage by 4% or more AND their yards per attempt by 3.0 or more. And beyond just those two metrics, Daniels also improved in his accuracy downfield, ball placement across the field, decision-making in the red zone and decision-making as a runner."
---
"Daniels' ability to improve is almost as exciting to NFL evaluators as his improvement has been, in part because of how he's improved. Often times, NFL evaluators and those in the quarterback training space talk about the areas where quarterbacks can and cannot get better.

Footwork, timing, mechanics and pre-snap play diagnosis are the key areas many quarterbacks, with great coaching and time, can make substantial strides. Anticipation and overall accuracy can improve as well in conjunction with the aforementioned factors, plus repetitions and game action.

But deep-ball placement, post-snap timing and decision-making, and improvisation are all traits that rarely develop for quarterbacks at any level. And if they do, it's over a substantial period of time unlocking the confidence within a quarterback. But for Daniels, he actualized that potential in one offseason in route to winning the Heisman Trophy."
---
"The biggest strides on film came from two key areas: a rhythmic, balanced full body throwing motion and release from a variety of platforms, and a confidence as a downfield passer he didn't have in years past. Confidence as a passer leads to trust in fundamentals and natural talent, and Daniels was oozing with confidence as a pocket and downfield passer for all of 2023.

Maybe more impressive, and potentially more important for his NFL transition, was his ability as a play progressor from the pocket. We often talk and hear about college quarterbacks making "NFL throws" like the coveted backside dig route.

The plays in the clips above all are on Daniels' second or third progression, requiring the wherewithal to stay balanced and calm as pressure comes into the A-gap, and the footwork and mechanics to adjust his body to finish the throw with ample velocity.

The LSU offense drastically dropped the amount of play action they used, likely in part because they trusted Daniels to work through progressions with his eyes on the defense post-snap. And Daniels' vision, anticipation and timing growth as a pocket passer proved them right, as he finished the season as one of the best mid-field throwers, especially on dig, in and post routes, in all of college football."
---
"NFL teams aren't drafting Caleb Williams or Jayden Daniels or Drake Maye for what they are now, but for what they can and hopefully will become.

And for Daniels, while a Burrow comparison may be optimistic, NFL teams know that, whatever their projected upside is for him to reach, he's given them every reason to feel confident he'll hit that ceiling and then some."
 

hotpaws

Registered User
Nov 21, 2009
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For those who are interested in insights from people with actual credentials, this guy is the Dir. of Football Ops and Player Personnel for the East-West Shrine Bowl and founder of a scouting service. (Yeah, I know, "Shrine Bowl? He's not even good enough to get the Senior Bowl!")



Excerpts:
"But even the most bullish evaluators on Daniels didn't predict that he would make the seismic leap toward reaching his previously untapped potential in just one offseason.

Over the past 20 years, only one other quarterback has seen similar substantial development year over year: fellow LSU alum Joe Burrow.

Burrow and Daniels are the only two quarterbacks in the last 20 years (minimum 400 drop backs) that increased their adjusted completion percentage by 4% or more AND their yards per attempt by 3.0 or more. And beyond just those two metrics, Daniels also improved in his accuracy downfield, ball placement across the field, decision-making in the red zone and decision-making as a runner."
---
"Daniels' ability to improve is almost as exciting to NFL evaluators as his improvement has been, in part because of how he's improved. Often times, NFL evaluators and those in the quarterback training space talk about the areas where quarterbacks can and cannot get better.

Footwork, timing, mechanics and pre-snap play diagnosis are the key areas many quarterbacks, with great coaching and time, can make substantial strides. Anticipation and overall accuracy can improve as well in conjunction with the aforementioned factors, plus repetitions and game action.

But deep-ball placement, post-snap timing and decision-making, and improvisation are all traits that rarely develop for quarterbacks at any level. And if they do, it's over a substantial period of time unlocking the confidence within a quarterback. But for Daniels, he actualized that potential in one offseason in route to winning the Heisman Trophy."
---
"The biggest strides on film came from two key areas: a rhythmic, balanced full body throwing motion and release from a variety of platforms, and a confidence as a downfield passer he didn't have in years past. Confidence as a passer leads to trust in fundamentals and natural talent, and Daniels was oozing with confidence as a pocket and downfield passer for all of 2023.

Maybe more impressive, and potentially more important for his NFL transition, was his ability as a play progressor from the pocket. We often talk and hear about college quarterbacks making "NFL throws" like the coveted backside dig route.

The plays in the clips above all are on Daniels' second or third progression, requiring the wherewithal to stay balanced and calm as pressure comes into the A-gap, and the footwork and mechanics to adjust his body to finish the throw with ample velocity.

The LSU offense drastically dropped the amount of play action they used, likely in part because they trusted Daniels to work through progressions with his eyes on the defense post-snap. And Daniels' vision, anticipation and timing growth as a pocket passer proved them right, as he finished the season as one of the best mid-field throwers, especially on dig, in and post routes, in all of college football."
---
"NFL teams aren't drafting Caleb Williams or Jayden Daniels or Drake Maye for what they are now, but for what they can and hopefully will become.

And for Daniels, while a Burrow comparison may be optimistic, NFL teams know that, whatever their projected upside is for him to reach, he's given them every reason to feel confident he'll hit that ceiling and then some."
I have no idea why anyone would compare JD's dramatic improvement to Burrows . JD was a fulltime starter for 4 yrs before he broke out while Burrows was basically in his second season starting
 

Jags

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The only way AP should get fired is if he let's collective hysteria over the Ghost of RG3 push him into drafting scared.

That's essentially just saying, "He deserves to be fired if he doesn't draft the guy I like."

Cuz no one will ever know WHY he picked one guy over another and "the Ghost of RG3" means the fear you're referencing is over Daniels.

I think he should prolly get more leeway than just drafting who you want him to. ;)

I have no idea why anyone would compare JD's dramatic improvement to Burrows . JD was a fulltime starter for 4 yrs before he broke out while Burrows was basically in his second season starting

Yeah, and those excerpts are loaded with things you could say about a bunch of the other options. It's just another JD lovefest. I'll be perfectly fine if he's the pick, but the lack of objectivity has been staggering, even from "the experts."
 
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ynotcaps

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That's essentially just saying, "He deserves to be fired if he doesn't draft the guy I like."

Cuz no one will ever know WHY he picked one guy over another and "the Ghost of RG3" means the fear you're referencing is over Daniels.

I think he should prolly get more leeway than just drafting who you want him to. ;)
That was callback to the whole "drafting JD would be a fireable offense!!!" schtick from a couple weeks ago -- and it was exactly what you posited above. Guess you missed that peach of a screed... (Much to your good luck!)

Don't worry, the bad, bad man using data to make a point will be off your lawn any second now.
 

ynotcaps

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Aug 4, 2006
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That's essentially just saying, "He deserves to be fired if he doesn't draft the guy I like."

Cuz no one will ever know WHY he picked one guy over another and "the Ghost of RG3" means the fear you're referencing is over Daniels.

I think he should prolly get more leeway than just drafting who you want him to. ;)



Yeah, and those excerpts are loaded with things you could say about a bunch of the other options. It's just another JD lovefest. I'll be perfectly fine if he's the pick, but the lack of objectivity has been staggering, even from "the experts."
Read the article, look into his background and tell me what screams "lack of objectivity."

I find it much more staggering that people assume a credible 3rd party with expertise but no skin in the game is lacking objectivity because it isn't what they want to hear.. Almost exactly what you were calling out in my facetious post above. (Which was about others on this site literally saying that the GM should be fired if he took the guy they didn't want.)
 
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AlexBrovechkin8

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Mentally preparing myself to be disappointed when they pass on Drake Maye. I’ll obviously root for JD and will most happily eat crow but between his playing style, reports saying he has preferred teams and Washington isn’t one of them, his agent publicly bitching about the Top Golf thing, his injury history, etc, there are too many red flags for me to be pumped about the pick. I’d rather them trade down and take JJ than take JD. I get queasy just thinking about taking another frail, oft-injured, mobile QB at 2OA.
 

kicksavedave

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Mentally preparing myself to be disappointed when they pass on Drake Maye. I’ll obviously root for JD and will most happily eat crow but between his playing style, reports saying he has preferred teams and Washington isn’t one of them, his agent publicly bitching about the Top Golf thing, his injury history, etc, there are too many red flags for me to be pumped about the pick. I’d rather them trade down and take JJ than take JD. I get queasy just thinking about taking another frail, oft-injured, mobile QB at 2OA.
What injury history?
 
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usiel

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Mentally preparing myself to be disappointed when they pass on Drake Maye. I’ll obviously root for JD and will most happily eat crow but between his playing style, reports saying he has preferred teams and Washington isn’t one of them, his agent publicly bitching about the Top Golf thing, his injury history, etc, there are too many red flags for me to be pumped about the pick. I’d rather them trade down and take JJ than take JD. I get queasy just thinking about taking another frail, oft-injured, mobile QB at 2OA.
It is the same for me favoring JD but if they pass and pick DM will hopeful as a fan as it when the pick is in time to hope for the best.

JJ thought man that is crazy gamble. I guess I'd give baller gamble props but sheesh.
 
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usiel

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Concussion, ankle injuries, elbow. We just saw a bigger, better Jayden Daniels get knocked out for the season last year in Anthony Richardson and people are pumped to draft a guy that plays a similar game?
Funny watched a vid yesterday ex-player when it comes to the weird expectations when they see the Adonis physique and they get injured easily and the opposite appearance that don't suffer serious injuries.

I just decided not be scarred by RG3 (who did have an ACL injury in college) and double down with the JD upside to dare the three fates to double up.
 
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AlexBrovechkin8

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Funny watched a vid yesterday ex-player when it comes to the weird expectations when they see the Adonis physique and they get injured easily and the opposite appearance that don't suffer serious injuries.

I just decided not be scarred by RG3 (who did have an ACL injury in college) and double down with the JD upside to dare the three fates to double up.
RGIII is definitely still a thing for me and I paint a very similar picture of he and JD in my head. Maybe that’s unfair or maybe I’m incorrect but it’s a mental thing that’s preventing me from being excited about him. And yeah, the comments from his agent and reports coming out about JD’s preferred teams within days of each other make it seem to me like JDs camp is telling Washington brass they don’t want to be in Washington without coming out and saying it.

Like I said, too many red flags for me to get pumped.
 
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Jags

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Read the article, look into his background and tell me what screams "lack of objectivity."

Read my post and tell me that I didn't already explain exactly that.

I think he said objectively true things about Daniels. But they were all things that are mostly true of other top QBs in the draft. A few of them were things that you know full well other QBs in the draft are better at than Daniels. And I'm not going through and itemizing those things because we've been doing that pretty constantly for the past couple months. You know exactly what I'm talking about.

I didn't say he was lying. I didn't say it was bullshit. I said it wasn't objective, clearly in the context I supplied, which is that it's a bunch of stuff you could just as easily say about Maye or Penix or McCarthy, and so on. Also, it doesn't objectively reference the advantages JD had over some of those guys.

So let's not get bent over semantics here. I'm not relitigating anything about JD. We're past that now. I think he's great. That article is a(nother) superfluous puff piece. They're a dime a dozen, and each of these QBs has a bunch of them out there.
 
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RedRocking

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RGIII is definitely still a thing for me and I paint a very similar picture of he and JD in my head. Maybe that’s unfair or maybe I’m incorrect but it’s a mental thing that’s preventing me from being excited about him. And yeah, the comments from his agent and reports coming out about JD’s preferred teams within days of each other make it seem to me like JDs camp is telling Washington brass they don’t want to be in Washington without coming out and saying it.

Like I said, too many red flags for me to get pumped.
I feel ya, as someone who has been favoring DM during most of this process. However, as JD has become more and more inevitable, I’ve learned to be cool with it, as I totally get why people around the league are so high on him.

The most important factors (imho) for QBs coming out are: fast processing ability, reading defenses, and accuracy. Next would probably be mechanics/release. After that you can kind of pick whichever athletic traits you prefer. JD is insanely accurate, with a lightning quick release, and beautiful touch on the ball. It seems like he has a fast processor, and can read defenses (at least at a SEC level).

So, this is my long winded way of saying - he’s NOT RG3, cause he’s way more advanced as a pocket passer. In fact, I think he’s the best pure pocket passer of the top 4 guys. So, if they can teach him to protect himself, and scramble to throw (more often than just running) - hopefully this will be a totally different story than a decade ago. Especially considering the rules protecting QBs are much better now than in 2012.
 
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usiel

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I feel ya, as someone who has been favoring DM during most of this process. However, as JD has become more and more inevitable, I’ve learned to be cool with it, as I totally get why people around the league are so high on him.

The most important factors (imho) for QBs coming out are: fast processing ability, reading defenses, and accuracy. Next would probably be mechanics/release. After that you can kind of pick whichever athletic traits you prefer. JD is insanely accurate, with a lightning quick release, and beautiful touch on the ball. It seems like he has a fast processor, and can read defenses (at least at a SEC level).

So, this is my long winded way of saying - he’s NOT RG3, cause he’s way more advanced as a pocket passer. In fact, I think he’s the best pure pocket passer of the top 4 guys. So, if they can teach him to protect himself, and scramble to throw (more often than just running) - hopefully this will be a totally different story than a decade ago. Especially considering the rules protecting QBs are much better now than in 2012.
That is a great take to really compare RGIII versus JD in their draft years.
 

g00n

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Draft day is finally f***ing here!

1714030855519.gif


Considering we're still talking about RG3 v Cousins over a decade later I'm sure all the debate over this 2024 pick will end in just a few hours.


Sitting here a bit baked and having trouble comprehending that Dan Snyder, Jason Wright, and Ron Rivera got to name this team and now we’re stuck with it. A trifecta of failure. Wild.

I give it 2 years tops. Right as we all finally get used to it.
 
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8:00. And I'll be in a new place (we're closing tomorrow) with no wifi. Will be learning the local bar scene on night 1!
You forgot they'll spend 10-20 minutes wasting time before a pick is actually made

expect the pick to be in at 8:30 PM
 

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