HF Habs: 2024 NHL Draft Thread

[TT1]

BPA enough with these RD talk...

I think for a market like MTL BPA doesn't really work and we've seen a lot of examples of that during MB's/TT's tenure. Of course BPA will be different for a pro NHL scouting list relative to an amateur list but I think the main thing that amateur lists can't/don't factor in is the mental side of these prospects. And by amateur I mean everyone that isn't working for a NHL team.

You really need to be plugged into the business/be at ground level to understand who the real prospects are compared to the ones that have a lot of "fluff" (prospects who have more flash than substance).

The best NHL teams understand that the name of the game in scouting is resources, the more resources you have invested the more high quality info you can gather (you can dedicate ppl to various specific tasks/your personnel is higher quality/u can hire who u want/this creates a good work culture etc.).

Of course non NHL scouts don't have that info so you should just view lists purely from a hockey talent standpoint.. it's mainly just gossip . Basically the evaluation is done on everything you can see, no evaluation is done on what you can't see. The latter is where BPA will change drastically on NHL lists relative to amateur lists, even maybe big market NHL teams vs smaller market ones.

When you have that in place finding talent is 1 thing but then you need to dig deep to see which ones are 100% dedicated to the game, that's 1 of the most important aspects that amateur scouts can't really have a feel for. For a big market team this aspect is much more important vs other small market teams.

Prospects that get distracted and lose focus (and this isn't something that you can really train, you either have it or not based on your life experiences) won't flourish as well in this market. That's why BPA based on hockey skills isn't enough, you need to factor in BPA + their mental fortitude as well. I think this is the biggest change I've seen with our recent management, they prioritize that aspect a lot and it's been showing in the result.

Whoever we end up picking might not be the BPA in terms of pure hockey talent/package but you can be sure he'll be 1 of the best in terms of hockey package + dedication to the game. If that ends up being a Dman then so be it.

 

[le_sean]

Yeah Connelly ranking isn't taking into account the off ice shit, for sure.

Silayev over Demidov is size and position humping

Even without the off ice stuff, I have a hard time putting Connelly above Catton.

 

[WeThreeKings]

Even without the off ice stuff, I have a hard time putting Connelly above Catton.

Me too. Would guess it's size there too, but idk.

I'm pretty comfortable with most options with our pick except i don't want Silayev at all, I personally wouldn't go Dickinson or Buium with our pick but would be "OK" with it because they're both fantastic prospects.

Helenius is the other one that I wouldn't be excited about the pick but I wouldn't hate it.

It's really only Silayev that I would have a Poehling reaction to.

 

[le_sean]

Me too. Would guess it's size there too, but idk.

I'm pretty comfortable with most options with our pick except i don't want Silayev at all, I personally wouldn't go Dickinson or Buium with our pick but would be "OK" with it because they're both fantastic prospects.

Helenius is the other one that I wouldn't be excited about the pick but I wouldn't hate it.

It's really only Silayev that I would have a Poehling reaction to.

Bobrov loves his unicorns and if anyone is a unicorn, it’s the 6’7 Russian defender. I hope he goes another direction but I wouldn’t be too surprised to see that pick.

 

[WeThreeKings]

Bobrov loves his unicorns and if anyone is a unicorn, it’s the 6’7 Russian defender. I hope he goes another direction but I wouldn’t be too surprised to see that pick.

I'd be pretty surprised. It seems like everything coming from the org is that they aren't taking a left shot defenseman high in the draft.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

But what I said was it makes no sense to dislike Catton for size and style reasons but like Eiserman. Eisermans warts are way bigger in that department than Catton.

They are but Eiserman's 6 foot and 195. He's going to be bigger than Catton.

Eiserman's also not afraid to throw some check. He doesn't always time them well but the potential is there.

 

[WeThreeKings]

They are but Eiserman's 6 foot and 195. He's going to be bigger than Catton.

Eiserman's also not afraid to throw some check. He doesn't always time them well but the potential is there.

Doesn't matter about that though. I'd take Point over Marner. One goes where it matters despite their size and the other doesn't even though they're bigger.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Doesn't matter about that though. I'd take Point over Marner. One goes where it matters despite their size and the other doesn't even though they're bigger.

I get that. Again, I understand people not taking Eiserman.

But the potential is there. So young and if you can mold him, he's got insane upside. At worst, you'll have a guy who can fire pucks from the slot. Does Catton have that kind of upside?

I'd take Point over Marner too btw.

 

[montreal]

I do not understand why posters keep saying Bobrov won't pick this guy or that guy, that makes no f***ing sense because he's not in charge of the draft. It's not like he's the sole head scout so aside from the draft day vids they put out, who knows what goes on when you have Gorton, Hughes, Bobrov, Lapointe.

 

[WeThreeKings]

I get that. Again, I understand people not taking Eiserman.

But the potential is there. So young and if you can mold him, he's got insane upside. At worst, you'll have a guy who can fire pucks from the slot. Does Catton have that kind of upside?

I'd take Point over Marner too btw.

Catton has insane upside too, hes not got the goal scoring upside as Eiserman but he brings goal scoring with rush offense and high end playmaking.

 

[Mrb1p]

I get that. Again, I understand people not taking Eiserman.

But the potential is there. So young and if you can mold him, he's got insane upside. At worst, you'll have a guy who can fire pucks from the slot. Does Catton have that kind of upside?

I'd take Point over Marner too btw.

Eiserman isn't even going to be Marner, he's going to be a truly dynamic offensive player. I see Connor or Pastrnak more than Marner, who's not even a goal scorer, so Im not sure why that comparison was made. We're back to overthinking scouting again. He's not my pick, I like a few other players more, but this whole crusade WTK is on is just ridiculous.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Eiserman isn't even going to be Marner, he's going to be a truly dynamic offensive player. I see Connor or Pastrnak more than Marner, who's not even a goal scorer, so Im not sure why that comparison was made. We're back to overthinking scouting again. He's not my pick, I like a few other players more, but this whole crusade WTK is on is just ridiculous.

He's not on a crusade, it's a matter of opinion and he may very well be right.

The big difference between Eiserman and the player that Marner is would be that Eiserman is a pure sniper. He doesn't really need to go to the dirty areas to score.

I mean if we get Catton... great. Iginla.... great. Same with the others. Eiserman to me, represents the highest ceiling. Even as a permimeter player (such as Brett Hull) he could still be a superstar. If he's coached right, he could be phenomenal. I'd rather go with that despite all the warts.

 

[Whitesnake]

A list is a list....I don't know if there's a better one than another...just fun to talk about it. But holy geez does Artamanov seems way too far. Same for Solberg and Surin.

While for NA...I TOTALLY understand the Buium ranking. He is rising in mine too. I just have a hard time moving him pass Dickinson....but Dickinson has to show me more offense in these playoffs. There's like....nothing happening there. Scary.

For some odd reasons, I will always have my doubts on Lindstrom. While I have no doubt on Catton and Iginla.

I didn't have enough viewing on Connolly and Hage so let's see where I have them.

Eiserman falling..yeah...well whatever. I don't especially agree. But it is what it is.

The 2 players I have the most trouble evaluating are Sennecke and Greentree. Those guys are candidates for boom or bust so much.....I will try to see them more.

 

[GlassesJacketShirt]

A list is a list....I don't know if there's a better one than another...just fun to talk about it. But holy geez does Artamanov seems way too far. Same for Solberg and Surin.

While for NA...I TOTALLY understand the Buium ranking. He is rising in mine too. I just have a hard time moving him pass Dickinson....but Dickinson has to show me more offense in these playoffs. There's like....nothing happening there. Scary.

For some odd reasons, I will always have my doubts on Lindstrom. While I have no doubt on Catton and Iginla.

I have had enough viewing on Connolly and Hage so let's see where I have them.

Eiserman falling..yeah...well whatever. I don't especially agree. But it is what it is.

The 2 players I have the most trouble evaluating are Sennecke and Greentree. Those guys are candidates for boom or bust so much.....I will try to see them more.

Always loved your inputs over the years.

-I'm with you on Dickinson to a degree, as his profile is still super valuable if the offense doesn't develop beyond average status. Would still put Buium ahead overall because I think he could one day control some games.

-Lindstrom is someone I have difficulty ranking because my viewings were limited to Hlinka and playoffs, and I find the Hlinka is the least valuable reference for player evaluation, while his playoff was following a supposed back injury that probably didn't fully heal. Were I to judge without all that context, he seemed a lot more like a unicorn support player I'd take a swing on in the middle of the first round, rather than a slam dunk top 5 guy, but is it a fair assessment based on the sample used? Eh.....

 

[Draft]

He's not on a crusade, it's a matter of opinion and he may very well be right.

The big difference between Eiserman and the player that Marner is would be that Eiserman is a pure sniper. He doesn't really need to go to the dirty areas to score.

I mean if we get Catton... great. Iginla.... great. Same with the others. Eiserman to me, represents the highest ceiling. Even as a permimeter player (such as Brett Hull) he could still be a superstar. If he's coached right, he could be phenomenal. I'd rather go with that despite all the warts.

My biggest concern with Eiserman is a lack of development this year. He doesn't look or produce differently than he did in his 16-17yo season and I think that needs to be factored in when we're discussing what his upside is and what his developmental trajectory actually looks like.

Statistically speaking, he's been fairly stagnant in the goalscoring department in both USHL and USNTDP games. He's got great draft year numbers, but he had a *phenomenal* D-1. If we saw notable improvement in his playmaking or two-way game, this might be less of a concern as we'd have an easy explanation for that plateau. However, by most/all accounts that I can find, this doesn't seem to be the case. Neither does quality of line mates tell the whole story either. His game hasn't grown or evolved offensively (or otherwise) and there's a real risk that he may just be an early bloomer that can produce against weaker competition.

I'm fine with recognizing that he has big upside as a goal scorer and I like that he's very young for this draft. However, I don't see much upside in other offensive areas of the game, as a physical presence, or as a two-way forward. If his goalscoring doesn't translate or if he's plateaued, there's absolutely no B-game to fall back on. Big risk potential that other top-10 forwards, including Catton, just don't have IMO.

 

[Michoulicious]

Parekh in front of Dickinson? No way.

You want a D that can play D in the top 10.

 

[Michoulicious]

Eiserman out of the NA top 10 is a JOKE.

Michael Hage? C'mon.

If Eiserman is available from #12 up Kent needs to do everything in his power to trade up with Winnipeg pick.

 

[McGees]

Demidov/Lindstrom dream could still be alive if we can stay at 5th pick.
They got my boy Iggy too low.

 

[EveryDay]

How close is Helenius from the NHL? Also can he play in Laval next year if selected?

 

[hardcorehabs]

if the draft goes:
Celebrini
Lindstrom
Demidov
Saliyev

Would we grab BPA (in my opinion) Buium or do we grab a rising Iglina or another forward

 

[Nevins]

 

[Mrb1p]

How close is Helenius from the NHL? Also can he play in Laval next year if selected?

He's close. Needs to add strength as usual with smaller kids. I'd say minimum one year, max 3. Yes he can.

 

[le_sean]

I do not understand why posters keep saying Bobrov won't pick this guy or that guy, that makes no f***ing sense because he's not in charge of the draft. It's not like he's the sole head scout so aside from the draft day vids they put out, who knows what goes on when you have Gorton, Hughes, Bobrov, Lapointe.

Except even Gorton as GM had a preferable type. Bobrov and Lapointe have the biggest say in that room and we know GMs ultimately yield to their amateur scouts in the end because their main focus is what’s going on with the pro team.

 

[montreal]

Except even Gorton as GM had a preferable type. Bobrov and Lapointe have the biggest say in that room and we know GMs ultimately yield to their amateur scouts in the end because their main focus is what’s going on with the pro team.

No I don't know that GM's yield to their scouts in the end cause I know of many many cases where they didn't do that. From what I understand some GMs are much more involved with scouting then others like Gainey who didn't so much scouting or Andre Savard who did a lot of scouting. From what I understand, often the GM is more involved with the 1st/2nd round and then turn it over to the scouts.

With Hughes as GM who knows how much input he has on scouting? Gorton in those draft vids I really wonder how much say he has because he didn't look too sure of his scouts when he asked them if they were really sure that was their guy. He at least in the vid didn't look like someone that had the final say as clearly someone has to have the final say when you have a GM, Gorton, and 2 head scouts.

 

[le_sean]

No I don't know that GM's yield to their scouts in the end cause I know of many many cases where they didn't do that. From what I understand some GMs are much more involved with scouting then others like Gainey who didn't so much scouting or Andre Savard who did a lot of scouting. From what I understand, often the GM is more involved with the 1st/2nd round and then turn it over to the scouts.

With Hughes as GM who knows how much input he has on scouting? Gorton in those draft vids I really wonder how much say he has because he didn't look too sure of his scouts when he asked them if they were really sure that was their guy. He at least in the vid didn't look like someone that had the final say as clearly someone has to have the final say when you have a GM, Gorton, and 2 head scouts.

It’s obviously a group discussion but you’re going to listen to your directors of scouting and development. If you don’t, you end up trying to be the smartest guy in the room like Jarmo Kekalainen and build a garbage franchise.

Fact remains that the proof is in the pudding. You can try and deny it all you want, but wherever those two are (Bobrov and Lapointe) those teams have an obvious type of player they target in the 1st round.