Speculation: 2023-24 Sharks Roster Discussion

[Pinkfloyd]

I see, I interpreted the idea wrong and thought it was more of moving Vlasic than upgrading with Tavares.

I mean, Tavares would be significantly more useful to next year's lineup than Vlasic would but any deal that doesn't cost us futures to get rid of Vlasic would be something I'd at least listen on.

 

[The Nemesis]

I'd absolutely take Tavares for Vlasic. Getting out from under his contract a year early by taking another overpaid guy who might at least do something the team needs who's only got 1 year left on his deal would be nice because it doesn't involve giving up assets to pay some team to take his contract. The question is why Toronto would do something like this. Their whole problem is how badly their cap setup is borked by having the big 4 offensive players taking up so much of the cap. This move only saves them $4m which they would then almost immediately have to use to replace Tavares' vacated top 9 spot. If they intend on competing next year (which they almost certainly are) it would seem silly to have to eat his cap hit for him to play sheltered 5th-7th d-man minutes just to stall long enough to buy him out next off-season.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

I'd absolutely take Tavares for Vlasic. Getting out from under his contract a year early by taking another overpaid guy who might at least do something the team needs who's only got 1 year left on his deal would be nice because it doesn't involve giving up assets to pay some team to take his contract. The question is why Toronto would do something like this. Their whole problem is how badly their cap setup is borked by having the big 4 offensive players taking up so much of the cap. This move only saves them $4m which they would then almost immediately have to use to replace Tavares' vacated top 9 spot. If they intend on competing next year (which they almost certainly are) it would seem silly to have to eat his cap hit for him to play sheltered 5th-7th d-man minutes just to stall long enough to buy him out next off-season.

That's because if you're Toronto, you buy out Vlasic after picking him up. They can't buy out Tavares as it only saves them 700k. That's what makes the trade for them a seven mil savings for nothing. Yeah they have to eat it a bit on the term but they don't have much in way of dead cap. They save 7 mil on the cap to turn that around and spend it to replace Tavares with Domi who will likely take less and put a little more towards their blue line.

 

[Jargon]

Finally had some time to binge Celebrini highlights (avoided them like the plague before the draft lottery) — holy hell he’s good. I really see Nathan MacKinnon more than most other comps (particularly in the highlights) - fast, dangly, great shot, attacks the defenders, super aggressive. It’s truly insane that he’s 17 - i said this in another thread but to reiterate: holy shit this kid with a few years of physical growth (with a little help of his trainer dad) is going to be an absolute beast. Bedard is obviously amazing but man, I think Celebrini is going to dazzle. I suspect by the time he’s in his prime, the people saying he’s not “generational” will be changing their minds.

I’m probably just pumped from watching him dominate but man, I can’t wait to see this kid in teal.

 

[OrrNumber4]

I'd absolutely take Tavares for Vlasic. Getting out from under his contract a year early by taking another overpaid guy who might at least do something the team needs who's only got 1 year left on his deal would be nice because it doesn't involve giving up assets to pay some team to take his contract. The question is why Toronto would do something like this. Their whole problem is how badly their cap setup is borked by having the big 4 offensive players taking up so much of the cap. This move only saves them $4m which they would then almost immediately have to use to replace Tavares' vacated top 9 spot. If they intend on competing next year (which they almost certainly are) it would seem silly to have to eat his cap hit for him to play sheltered 5th-7th d-man minutes just to stall long enough to buy him out next off-season.

Why would Toronto do this deal? They save 4 million this year to spend 7 the next.

 

[Alaskanice]

Finally had some time to binge Celebrini highlights (avoided them like the plague before the draft lottery) — holy hell he’s good. I really see Nathan MacKinnon more than most other comps (particularly in the highlights) - fast, dangly, great shot, attacks the defenders, super aggressive. It’s truly insane that he’s 17 - i said this in another thread but to reiterate: holy shit this kid with a few years of physical growth (with a little help of his trainer dad) is going to be an absolute beast. Bedard is obviously amazing but man, I think Celebrini is going to dazzle. I suspect by the time he’s in his prime, the people saying he’s not “generational” will be changing their minds.

I’m probably just pumped from watching him dominate but man, I can’t wait to see this kid in teal.

Going off your point that he’s only 17. He’s only 17!!! My goodness. We’re fortunate to get him.

 

[Hodge]

This is how I see the roster going into the offseason:

Eklund - Granlund - Zetterlund
UFA/Trade - Couture - Smith
UFA/Trade - Celebrini - Kunin
UFA/Trade - Sturm - UFA/Trade

Ferraro - UFA/Trade
Vlasic - Benning
Thrun - Rutta

Blackwood
Vanecek

So we should be looking to add two middle six forwards, a couple of fourth line PK/energy wingers and a top four defenseman. If Couture is headed for LTIRetirement and we buy Vlasic out that's another center and defenseman on the shopping list.

 

[DG93]

This is how I see the roster going into the offseason:

Eklund - Granlund - Zetterlund
UFA/Trade - Couture - Smith
UFA/Trade - Celebrini - Kunin
UFA/Trade - Sturm - UFA/Trade

Ferraro - UFA/Trade
Vlasic - Benning
Thrun - Rutta

Blackwood
Vanecek

So we should be looking to add two middle six forwards, a couple of fourth line PK/energy wingers and a top four defenseman. If Couture is headed for LTIRetirement and we buy Vlasic out that's another center and defenseman on the shopping list.

Kunin belongs on the fourth line, and I think Graf gets a spot for sure given that he signed here late last year with presumably high odds of being a top-9 winger in 2024-2025 as well. Kostin is also signed for next year and slots into one of those bottom-6 LW slots as well. I bet both Gushchin and Bordeleau get a chance to compete for the 2 other spots as does Musty with how badly he destroyed juniors last year, but they do probably add at least one middle-6 winger in FA (two if Couture is cooked).

On defense, I think they re-sign Emberson and he competes for that open spot + Mukh gets a chance to push Vlasic into the pressbox and Burroughs to the AHL but would not be surprised if they add a top-4 defenseman as well. The two goalies are locks.

 

[gaucholoco3]

Kunin belongs on the fourth line, and I think Graf gets a spot for sure given that he signed here late last year with presumably high odds of being a top-9 winger in 2024-2025 as well. Kostin is also signed for next year and slots into one of those bottom-6 LW slots as well. I bet both Gushchin and Bordeleau get a chance to compete for the 2 other spots as does Musty with how badly he destroyed juniors last year, but they do probably add at least one middle-6 winger in FA (two if Couture is cooked).

On defense, I think they re-sign Emberson and he competes for that open spot + Mukh gets a chance to push Vlasic into the pressbox and Burroughs to the AHL but would not be surprised if they add a top-4 defenseman as well. The two goalies are locks.

Every year people fall into the same trap of thinking a recent college signee who only plays a handful of games will automatically make the team in the fall.

Bords 2 years ago then played the whole next season in the AHL.

Thrun last year only to start the season in the AHL. He did get 50+ NHL games but not as the “top 4” that many were penciling him into.

Graf will start the season in the AHL and will get a call up if his play warrants it.

 

[DG93]

Every year people fall into the same trap of thinking a recent college signee who only plays a handful of games will automatically make the team in the fall.

Bords 2 years ago then played the whole next season in the AHL.

Thrun last year only to start the season in the AHL. He did get 50+ NHL games but not as the “top 4” that many were penciling him into.

Graf will start the season in the AHL and will get a call up if his play warrants it.

Fair enough although Bordeleau was drafted by the Sharks so I don't think that example works, but Thrun is a good point

 

[OrrNumber4]

This is how I see the roster going into the offseason:

Eklund - Granlund - Zetterlund
UFA/Trade - Couture - Smith
UFA/Trade - Celebrini - Kunin
UFA/Trade - Sturm - UFA/Trade

Ferraro - UFA/Trade
Vlasic - Benning
Thrun - Rutta

Blackwood
Vanecek

So we should be looking to add two middle six forwards, a couple of fourth line PK/energy wingers and a top four defenseman. If Couture is headed for LTIRetirement and we buy Vlasic out that's another center and defenseman on the shopping list.

1) Unless Emberson's injury has caused him to regress, I'd say that he has a roster spot locked down. Certainly, more than Thrun.

2) Bordeleau has spent several years in the pros, and had a very strong finish last season. I'd say that he's someone you can pen-in for the opening night lineup.

3) Kostin is also an established NHLer and will definitely be in the lineup (probably even in the top-6!)

 

[mogambomoroo]

This offseason should be all about getting the right support for Celebrini/Smith. Not the most expensive UFA free agents or big trades, since we have no idea what we are dealing with yet. We are in no rush and just need couple of more established players around the younger players. Defence is an area I would try the UFA market, but not go all in. Get 1-2 defencemen with ton of NHL experience, some powerplay help and the balance in handedness. That would go a long way comparing to last year.

Important thing is that we get rid of Labanc, Hoffman and Barabanov. I think getting those spots open will do a lot of good and refresh the whole team. After hearing Vlasic interview after the season ended, I just don't see him fitting in with the new regime. I'm not going on full detail, because I respect what he did in the glory days, but I think it's time to move on. Even more important now that we have one of the most important pieces being drafted this year, it's to shift the whole culture another way.

 

[Hodge]

1) Unless Emberson's injury has caused him to regress, I'd say that he has a roster spot locked down. Certainly, more than Thrun.

2) Bordeleau has spent several years in the pros, and had a very strong finish last season. I'd say that he's someone you can pen-in for the opening night lineup.

3) Kostin is also an established NHLer and will definitely be in the lineup (probably even in the top-6!)

1) Not more than his fellow RDs Rutta and Benning plus this lineup assumes adding another RD through trade or free agency. Emberson is a fine 7th defenseman.

2) I don't care what Bordeleau did in meaningless games. He looked out of his depth at the beginning of last season and failed to dominate the AHL. Frankly I wouldn't even qualify him.

3) Again, call me when Kostin looks like an established NHLer during the actual season and not playing out the string for the worst team in recent history. 4 points in 33 games for Detroit. Pencil him in for the 4th line or press box.

Some of you don't seem to want to improve the team at all. That's your prerogative but that's not going to happen, certainly now that we have Celebrini and Smith.

 

[Gecklund]

Another guy I’d love to look into is Sean Couturier. Torts benched him this season and played him bottom 6 minutes multiple times. One issue is he has a pretty long contract but could be a good piece to help ease Smith/Celebrini in and then eventually play either behind them or on the wing. NMC probably negates this but oh well.

 

[Hodge]

Another guy I’d love to look into is Sean Couturier. Torts benched him this season and played him bottom 6 minutes multiple times. One issue is he has a pretty long contract but could be a good piece to help ease Smith/Celebrini in and then eventually play either behind them or on the wing. NMC probably negates this but oh well.

We finally shed the Hertl contract and you want to immediately go out and acquire older more injured Hertl contract?

 

[Gecklund]

We finally shed the Hertl contract and you want to immediately go out and acquire older more injured Hertl contract?

f*** yeah I do. 1. Circumstances changed. We need someone to shelter these young Cs. 2. We’d get paid for taking on Couturier and he can be LTIRed

 

[Hodge]

f*** yeah I do. 1. Circumstances changed. We need someone to shelter these young Cs. 2. We’d get paid for taking on Couturier and he can be LTIRed

We already have Granlund who's better than Couturier and Hertl and isn't signed through the end of the decade.

 

[Gecklund]

We already have Granlund who's better than Couturier and Hertl and isn't signed through the end of the decade.

And then who’s behind him? Celebrini and Smith should not break into the NHL as a top 6 C in my opinion. If we get Couturier and 12th overall for say a later pick or maybe a prospect I dunno but basically nothing you wouldn’t do it?

 

[Hodge]

And then who’s behind him? Celebrini and Smith should not break into the NHL as a top 6 C in my opinion. If we get Couturier and 12th overall for say a later pick or maybe a prospect I dunno but basically nothing you wouldn’t do it?

No of course not. He's signed forever. We just spent two painstaking years getting rid of these types of contracts. If you don't think Celebrini is ready to be a 2C, which he almost certainly is, just sign or acquire a center for a normal length of time.

 

[Gecklund]

No of course not. He's signed forever. We just spent two painstaking years getting rid of these types of contracts. If you don't think Celebrini is ready to be a 2C, which he almost certainly is, just sign or acquire a center for a normal length of time.

I mean what Cs do you have out there that can take top competition and not completely crumble? That’s more what I want. Granlund’s line is not taking the defensive responsibilities. Celebrini should not be taking the top defensive responsibility.

 

[NewMuzu24]

I’m curious what goes into a player’s decision when asked to waive an NMC. If there’s a family, it’s bigger than the player himself. If not, I can see “well you don’t want me here so screw you” coming into play.

Of course taxes, uprooting, competitiveness, and travel all play roles. I just don’t see SJ as a non-starter in those conversations. We have the spots to give more ice time, give better roles, facilitate a trade, and give players on the last year or two on deals a chance to try out California and the Western Conference in general.

Obviously, we suck, but I think we might actually be an attractive option for someone coming in on a trial basis with our good prospects, leveling up on stats, less media scrutiny, and building value either to stay here and be part of the next big push or get that next deal elsewhere.

 

[Hodge]

I mean what Cs do you have out there that can take top competition and not completely crumble? That’s more what I want. Granlund’s line is not taking the defensive responsibilities. Celebrini should not be taking the top defensive responsibility.

Granlund's line is absolutely taking the top defensive responsibilities just like they did this past season. Sturm's line will get the bulk of the defensive zone draws. That frees up Celebrini and Smith in the middle six.

If you really want another veteran center, there's always the chance Couture is healthy by training camp. Failing that the Islanders would probably dump Pageau (5Mx2 remaining) on us for free or even with picks attached. Other potential short term cap dumps include Kevin Hayes (3.6Mx2), Yanni Gourde (5.1Mx1), Christian Dvorak (4.5Mx1) and Nicolas Roy (3Mx3). Absolutely zero reason to take on 31yo Couturier's 7.8Mx6.

 

[Gecklund]

Granlund's line is absolutely taking the top defensive responsibilities just like they did this past season. Sturm's line will get the bulk of the defensive zone draws. That frees up Celebrini and Smith in the middle six.

If you really want another veteran center, there's always the chance Couture is healthy by training camp. Failing that the Islanders would probably dump Pageau (5Mx2 remaining) on us for free or even with picks attached. Other potential short term cap dumps include Kevin Hayes (3.6Mx2), Yanni Gourde (5.1Mx1), Christian Dvorak (4.5Mx1) and Nicolas Roy (3Mx3). Absolutely zero reason to take on 31yo Couturier's 7.8Mx6.

I mean I was suggesting also Gourde or Roy but it’s boring season for Sharks news so more of an outside the box way to fit it.

Couturier is also miles better than all of those. I think we’d have to pay for all of those guys too except maybe Dvorak.

 

[Hodge]

I mean I was suggesting also Gourde or Roy but it’s boring season for Sharks news so more of an outside the box way to fit it.

Couturier is also miles better than all of those. I think we’d have to pay for all of those guys too except maybe Dvorak.

Which is why I'm perfectly fine going into the season with Granlund, Celebrini, Sturm and a bottom 6 UFA signing (or Couture) as our center depth. But if Seattle decides to take a run at Sam Reinhart and needs to dump Gourde I'm fine kicking a 3rd to them for him. We'll get it back at the deadline.

 

[TheBeard]

I mean what Cs do you have out there that can take top competition and not completely crumble? That’s more what I want. Granlund’s line is not taking the defensive responsibilities. Celebrini should not be taking the top defensive responsibility.

A lot of it really depends on what Logan does next year. If he's healthy, just keep him at 1C.