Speculation: 2023-24 Armchair GM thread

[Dr Jan Itor]

Do these guys fit in with the future of this team? How much value are they going to lose on our team vs another team? Are they blocking someone that could use time in the NHL? How much are they going to want to extend? Have they been producing in the playoffs? How much of a bubble team is this?

The Central is going to be a buzz saw again this year.

Hartman might because of his age, but that's going to depend a lot on his contract demands. They can't pay him like he's going to be Kaprizov's center for the next 5 years.

Zuccarello might, in the short term, depending on if they feel they need to pander to Kaprizov (if that whole thing is even a thing).

Foligno, I would've gotten rid of a month ago, so I'm hoping he doesn't fit.

Duhaime isn't worth worrying about.

 

[f7ben]

If we're in the playoffs, we'll keep our guys.
If we're on the bubble, we'll probably keep our guys.
If we're definitively out of the playoffs, we could very well move a couple.

It's not complicated.

Hello 1st rd exit …that’s what we love here in MN

 

[thestonedkoala]

Hartman might because of his age, but that's going to depend a lot on his contract demands. They can't pay him like he's going to be Kaprizov's center for the next 5 years.

Zuccarello might, in the short term, depending on if they feel they need to pander to Kaprizov (if that whole thing is even a thing).

Foligno, I would've gotten rid of a month ago, so I'm hoping he doesn't fit.

Duhaime isn't worth worrying about.

And that's the issue what is Hartman's demands? If he's going to ask 6 million for 6 years, does Minnesota sign him or do they move him at the deadline and get some talent back?

Foligno is the only one that I can see being brought back.

Duhaime is a useful depth player. Too bad Chuck isn't around or they could have traded him to Chuck.

 

[Spurgeon]

Hartman might because of his age, but that's going to depend a lot on his contract demands. They can't pay him like he's going to be Kaprizov's center for the next 5 years.

Zuccarello might, in the short term, depending on if they feel they need to pander to Kaprizov (if that whole thing is even a thing).

Foligno, I would've gotten rid of a month ago, so I'm hoping he doesn't fit.

Duhaime isn't worth worrying about.

Only way I’d be okay with bringing Zucc back is if it’s a $3M AAV or lower. This team needs to sign a Lindholm-level player next offseason.

 

[thestonedkoala]

Only way I’d be okay with bringing Zucc back is if it’s a $3M AAV or lower. This team needs to sign a Lindholm-level player next offseason.

Trade Zuccs, trade Foligno - free up space to grab a Lindholm center (if he doesn't get signed/traded). That'd work.

Biggest issue is if this team is floundering and Guerin makes moves to bolster it instead letting it crash.

 

[Webster]

Zuccarello scored 146 points in the last two seasons, I seriously doubt they want to lose him. They also got rid of Fiala and Dumba, but not Zucc.

I think it's more on Zucc himself, if they can agree on a deal. One thing is for sure, he'll get more on the open market than he can get here. Then you have the private factor, he's settled down here with a family, so he may accept a big pay cut.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

And that's the issue what is Hartman's demands? If he's going to ask 6 million for 6 years, does Minnesota sign him or do they move him at the deadline and get some talent back?

Foligno is the only one that I can see being brought back.

Duhaime is a useful depth player. Too bad Chuck isn't around or they could have traded him to Chuck.

Depends on if we're in the playoffs or not.

 

[Digitalbooya]

Zuccarello scored 146 points in the last two seasons, I seriously doubt they want to lose him. They also got rid of Fiala and Dumba, but not Zucc.

I think it's more on Zucc himself, if they can agree on a deal. One thing is for sure, he'll get more on the open market than he can get here. Then you have the private factor, he's settled down here with a family, so he may accept a big pay cut.

If Zucc wanted $8M on a contract last offseason, he would have been gone so fast. Let’s not play the game of Zucc is better than Fiala.

 

[Spurgeon]

Zuccarello scored 146 points in the last two seasons, I seriously doubt they want to lose him. They also got rid of Fiala and Dumba, but not Zucc.

I think it's more on Zucc himself, if they can agree on a deal. One thing is for sure, he'll get more on the open market than he can get here. Then you have the private factor, he's settled down here with a family, so he may accept a big pay cut.

I’ve appreciated what Zucc has been able to do here, but he will be 37 by the start of the 24-25 season. the Wild need to start thinking about the future and who can still be around and productive 3+ years from now.

Signing Zucc to $5M is just another $5M they can’t spend on a 27-29 year old that can be signed to a contract that would be expiring at Zucc’s current age.

 

[Wabit]

I think MN has to ride out the first half of the season and see where they are in the middle of January before doing anything. There are just too many unknowns right now. Not re-signing Foligno, Hartman, and Zucc before the season is the "correct" thing for the GM to do imo.

I do think the nuclear option needs to be available going into the TDL, just in case everything goes wrong. Then you have to look at trading Kap (NMC kicks in next year) and everything else that isn't nailed down.

 

[DANOZ28]

i guess the most i'd offer zuccarello is 4 mill and use the rest to find a C upgrade next season. ps thats if tarasenko isn't available.

 

[Digitalbooya]

I think MN has to ride out the first half of the season and see where they are in the middle of January before doing anything. There are just too many unknowns right now. Not re-signing Foligno, Hartman, and Zucc before the season is the "correct" thing for the GM to do imo.

I do think the nuclear option needs to be available going into the TDL, just in case everything goes wrong. Then you have to look at trading Kap (NMC kicks in next year) and everything else that isn't nailed down.

There is absolutely zero chance they trade Kaprizov. I don't care if he walks in three years, you don't trade top 5 players at their position with multiple years left on their contract. Ever.

 

[Wabit]

There is absolutely zero chance they trade Kaprizov. I don't care if he walks in three years, you don't trade top 5 players at their position with multiple years left on their contract. Ever.

You do if the wheels fall off and everything goes wrong. Say Marat K and Yurov re-sign in the KHL for 2 more year; which is possible. Rossi ends up back in the AHL by midseason; also possible. Gus turns back into the goalie he was in OTT; again possible. The future doesn't look so bright the last 2 years of Kap's deal all of a sudden.

I also don't think MN is high on UFAs list for places to sign. Depth players don't even want to sign here and go elsewhere instead.

 

[Digitalbooya]

You do if the wheels fall off and everything goes wrong. Say Marat K and Yurov re-sign in the KHL for 2 more year; which is possible. Rossi ends up back in the AHL by midseason; also possible. Gus turns back into the goalie he was in OTT; again possible. The future doesn't look so bright the last 2 years of Kap's deal all of a sudden.

I also don't think MN is high on UFAs list for places to sign. Depth players don't even want to sign here and go elsewhere instead.

You basically just described the team as it is right now outside of the Gus comments. If the team has Kap, Eriksson Ek, Boldy, Brodin, Spurgeon, and some level of functional goaltending, we will be a borderline playoff team.

 

[thestonedkoala]

I think a good comparable would be Vincent Trocheck for Ryan Hartman's next contract. Would you pay between 5-6 million a season for 7 seasons for Hartman?

 

[Minnewildsota]

I think a good comparable would be Vincent Trocheck for Ryan Hartman's next contract. Would you pay between 5-6 million a season for 7 seasons for Hartman?

Ummm. What? Why?

 

[TaLoN]

I think a good comparable would be Vincent Trocheck for Ryan Hartman's next contract. Would you pay between 5-6 million a season for 7 seasons for Hartman?

No way in hell would I pay Hartman that

 

[thestonedkoala]

Ummm. What? Why?

Trocheck was 29 when he signed his contract. Hartman will be 29 when he signs his contract.

Trocheck has a few more goals and a lot more assists (442 points in 637 games vs 233 points in 506 games) throughout his career, but Hartman seems to be a good candidate for a late breakout.

Both are right handed centers.

Hartman is a lot tougher than Trocheck. But their numbers the past few seasons are a bit more comparable than the start of their career (158 points in 210 games vs 124 points in 192 games or .75 points per game vs .65 points per game. Or 60 goals in 210 games vs 56 goals in 192 games).

I can see Hartman getting a comparable contract to Trocheck, especially if he has a bounce back season.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

I think a good comparable would be Vincent Trocheck for Ryan Hartman's next contract. Would you pay between 5-6 million a season for 7 seasons for Hartman?

No, because in an optimal situation, you find a center that pushes him down to the 3rd line RW and you can't pay him like that to be a 3rd line RW.

4 x $4M is where I'd currently be with him.

 

[thestonedkoala]

No, because in an optimal situation, you find a center that pushes him down to the 3rd line RW and you can't pay him like that to be a 3rd line RW.

4 x $4M is where I'd currently be with him.

I was thinking around 4 x 4.5-5 years (comparable to Wennberg).

The biggest issue here is where does Minnesota see Hartman? Is he a center or is he a right wing? Where do other teams see Hartman? There are some big names next year in free agency, so that might help push his cost down.

 

[AKL]

Ryan Hartman is just Charlie Coyle. More physical/aggressive, shorter, more bad penalties, but he's a super utility guy that can play any position on any line, even if he probably should be playing on the third line in an ideal situation.

In a world where we don't have dead cap, I'd probably be okay with up to 4.5Mx4-5, but I wouldn't love it. I do think we should try to keep him if the contract is reasonable though.

 

[TaLoN]

I was thinking around 4 x 4.5-5 years (comparable to Wennberg).

The biggest issue here is where does Minnesota see Hartman? Is he a center or is he a right wing? Where do other teams see Hartman? There are some big names next year in free agency, so that might help push his cost down.

Hartman is a middle lineup wing playing center because we have nobody else to do the job.
You don't pay him like other centers because his numbers are bring dragged up by playing with Kap, and in the long run, we HAVE to find a better player to play center instead of an out of position middling winger.

 

[Wabit]

You basically just described the team as it is right now outside of the Gus comments. If the team has Kap, Eriksson Ek, Boldy, Brodin, Spurgeon, and some level of functional goaltending, we will be a borderline playoff team.

I don't think so. Functional (slightly above league average) goaltending was MAF last year. Just going by GSAA MAF was +5 and Gus was +31 (+36 combined). 2 MAF quality goalies would have only been +10 combined. Giving up 26 more goals in a season MN would have been -5 last year.

MN is also down from 3 top-4 d-men last year to 2 this year. If (more like when) Brodin or Spurgeon gets injured MN will be down to 1.

Outside of Boldy, Addison, and rookies; the rest of the players on the team are what they are as players and aren't going to improve, and are more likely to fall off.

 

[thestonedkoala]

Hartman is a middle lineup wing playing center because we have nobody else to do the job.
You don't pay him like other centers because his numbers are bring dragged up by playing with Kap, and in the long run, we HAVE to find a better player to play center instead of an out of position middling winger.

I mean they signed Sam Steel and he didn't work. They like having Hartman at center, he plays complimentary to Zuccs and Kaprizov, and he likes playing center. It isn't necessarily what Minnesota values him at either. If a team is willing to pay Hartman 5 million for 6 years (or whatever) and Minnesota doesn't and brings back Foligno and Zuccarello limiting themselves on who they can bring in at center, it's going to be a disaster all over again. Or they let Foligno, Zuccarello and Hartman walk, hope a guy like Lindholm signs to replace Hartman and hope Yurov and Ohgren can replace Foligno and Zuccarello immediately.

There are a lot of scenarios there, but replacing your top line center, your top line winger and a competent middle 6 player on a shoestring budget is a tall order.

 

[TaLoN]

I mean they signed Sam Steel and he didn't work. They like having Hartman at center, he plays complimentary to Zuccs and Kaprizov, and he likes playing center. It isn't necessarily what Minnesota values him at either. If a team is willing to pay Hartman 5 million for 6 years (or whatever) and Minnesota doesn't and brings back Foligno and Zuccarello limiting themselves on who they can bring in at center, it's going to be a disaster all over again. Or they let Foligno, Zuccarello and Hartman walk, hope a guy like Lindholm signs to replace Hartman and hope Yurov and Ohgren can replace Foligno and Zuccarello immediately.

There are a lot of scenarios there, but replacing your top line center, your top line winger and a competent middle 6 player on a shoestring budget is a tall order.

I don't think the team ever looked at Sam Steel as a long term center solution.
Again, they like Hartman at center because they have no other choice due to the cap. Long term, he's not the answer and they know it.