Speculation: 2023-2024 General Lightning Discussion - Part 3

[Outl4w]

The picks for jeannot were less than the cost to acquire the lightning real weakness top 4 defense Hannafin was less than a fourth line plug.

 

[Todd1a]

The fact there is a 2 1/2 year difference between Coop and Sullivan and a 9 year difference between Coop and a guy that was playing for Coop when he first started...

If cooper is 1st round and done again is he gone after next season?

 

[JTBF81]

If cooper is 1st round and done again is he gone after next season?

Depends on whether the team is actually improved this offseason, injury issues etc., but I highly doubt it unless he wants out. Hard to see the roster being much better if Sheary and Jeannot(and possibly Perbix) are still regulars next season.

 

[DistantThunderRep]

The picks for jeannot were less than the cost to acquire the lightning real weakness top 4 defense Hannafin was less than a fourth line plug.

Wasn't the rumour that we had a better deal in place with Calgary but they took a lesser offer to bolster the division to spite Edmonton? Like it's hard to deny that they specifically went out of their way to spit Edmonton this year.

They basically made all their trades within the Pacific and then Dallas

 

[JTBF81]

Wasn't the rumour that we had a better deal in place with Calgary but they took a lesser offer to bolster the division to spite Edmonton? Like it's hard to deny that they specifically went out of their way to spit Edmonton this year.

They basically made all their trades within the Pacific and then Dallas

Yeah, there was a lot of smoke that Tampa and Calgary were pretty far along in talks and that a trade seemed close. Then for whatever reason (Cakgary GM wanting to stick it to EDM, not wanting to seem weak and have a player/agent controlling where the trade was going etc), he pivoted to.Vegas and took an offer that wasn't anything that amazing. Who knows what JBB was offering or how close the deal was, but reports were that Tampa was definitely disappointed when they didn't get him.

 

[Outl4w]

Yeah, there was a lot of smoke that Tampa and Calgary were pretty far along in talks and that a trade seemed close. Then for whatever reason (Cakgary GM wanting to stick it to EDM, not wanting to seem weak and have a player/agent controlling where the trade was going etc), he pivoted to.Vegas and took an offer that wasn't anything that amazing. Who knows what JBB was offering or how close the deal was, but reports were that Tampa was definitely disappointed when they didn't get him.

If we had the picks for jeannot we could have gotten hanifin. Total bust of a trade and extension signed with a almost 2 million more per year for a nonfactor player.

 

[JTBF81]

If we had the picks for jeannot we could have gotten hanifin. Total bust of a trade and extension signed with a almost 2 million more per year for a nonfactor player.

Not necessarily. Calgary ended up getting a '24 3rd, '26 1st, and a meh dman. Tampa had all the similar assets needed to pull the trade off, but perhaps JBB wasn't offering all if it, or perhaps as rumored, Cakgary's GM decided to look strong by not accepting the Tampa trade(since that is where it was widely reported that Hanifin wanted to go). In any case, while the Jeannot trade was bad, without knowing more about Tampa's offer and other details, it can't be said that was the main reason Hanifin isn't in Tampa right now.

 

[The Macho King]

On the Jeannot trade, it still isn't clear what the Lightning gave up. All of the value of that trade will be determined this year and next (with the 2nd and 1st rounder).

TB shipped out-

1) Cal Foote (cut by Nashville, signed by NJ on a 2-way contract, currently on leave of absence)
2) 2023 3rd Rounder - D Dylan MacKinnon
3) 2023 4th Rounder - (reacquired by Lightning, picked RW Jason Shaugabay; now Chi 2024 4th Rounder)
4) 2023 5th Rounder - LW Kevin Bicker
5) 2024 2nd Rounder
6) 2025 1st Rounder (top 10 protected).

Just to state the obvious, the calculation isn't only "what did we lose", it's "what could we have bought instead."

If cooper is 1st round and done again is he gone after next season?

No.

 

[DistantThunderRep]

If we had the picks for jeannot we could have gotten hanifin. Total bust of a trade and extension signed with a almost 2 million more per year for a nonfactor player.

Not true at all. 100% we had a better off on the table for Hanifin. Literally every single insider and report had Hanifin to Tampa with an extension already worked out. Think about how far along that had to be.

All Calgary got was a 2025 1st, a 2025 3rd, and Miromanov. Hell, remove us from the equation. You think a Team who could use a healthy stable defenseman, ie Florida, couldn't have used Hanifin and beat that pittance of an offer? Boston had all the pieces that Calgary needs for a retool/rebuild.

My assumption was that JBB had 2026 1st, 2025 2nd, and Jack Thompson on the table and possibly another piece like Perbix. Still massively better than what they got from Vegas.

 

[Todd1a]

Four teams emerge as frontrunners for Steven Stamkos this off-season

Four teams emerged as frontrunners to sign the Tampa Bay Lightning's captain Steven Stamkos this off-season.

www.markerzone.com

 

[LightningStrikes]

https://www.markerzone.com/news/ind...NPlVyP8ivg_B5Ti8rZ3ftn0RMuuFEMYo4M34V8ZqguhhZ

Detroit, Nashville, Montreal and Toronto for the lazy.

 

[Todd1a]

If Stamkos walks sign John !

 

[Point21]

 

[Todd1a]

The lightning are done being a cup contender all there going to do is get to the first round and be knocked out. I don’t see any way JBB can improve the team no cap space and no prospects and draft assets

 

[JoVel]

Detroit, Nashville, Montreal and Toronto for the lazy.

I can't lie, Toronto spending a significant amount of money on Stamkos at this stage of his career would be incredibly funny.

 

[Todd1a]

I can't lie, Toronto spending a significant amount of money on Stamkos at this stage of his career would be incredibly funny.

They might give him 9 million per year lol I can see it and then trade marner for defenseman

 

[Point21]

 

[Stammertime91]

View attachment 869010

It's only weakened if you rely on Cirelli to play defense instead of an entire line. Not every team needs a selke level center. We are worse off losing Stamkos at 34 than we are losing Cirelli at 26. If it comes down to either/or between those two, I take Stamkos 10 times out of 10. If anybody disagrees (under the assumption both couldn't be here if he resigns), then who is your right handed shot on the left dot? I'll wait.

 

[Sky04]

It's only weakened if you rely on Cirelli to play defense instead of an entire line. Not every team needs a selke level center. We are worse off losing Stamkos at 34 than we are losing Cirelli at 26. If it comes down to either/or between those two, I take Stamkos 10 times out of 10. If anybody disagrees (under the assumption both couldn't be here if he resigns), then who is your right handed shot on the left dot? I'll wait.

50 goal scorer Brayden Point, next.

 

[JTBF81]

There's absolutely no reason to move Cirelli or let Stamkos walk, unless he has changed his mind about wanting to stay or he is simply asking for something like 8.5+ again. By trading two players that do not add much to the team in Sheary and Jeannot, there is enough space to keep Stamkos, add 1 quality dman kr F, and fill in the remaining 3 spots(after factoring in the low cost replacements for CS and TJ. Trading Perbix could also be of some help. In anycase, guys like Cirelli shouldnr be on the table barring a large overpay, when moving players that are cheaper and less valuable can create the space you need. While Cirelli may be able to land a top 4 RD, it is very unlikely they can replace Cirelli as well, not to mention still then needing an additional top 6 F and to re-sign Stamkos, by creating enough cap space with his departure.

 

[Todd1a]

View attachment 869010

If we lose cirell to keep Stamkos we will even be worse next year . We can move Sheary or Jeannot to keep Stamkos no need trade others like cirell

 

[Stammertime91]

50 goal scorer Brayden Point, next.

Until I see Point capable of hitting bombs for one timers, no thank you. He's great in the bumper because he has a different release and he's better in tight. Point isn't nearly as effective from distance if you put him on the left circle. He didn't get 50 hitting one timers from the top of the circle. His wrist shot and snap shot voids the left circle because any hesitation, like he does in the bumper position, totally negates one timers.

My point is, there's no legitimate right handed shot to put on that left circle without changing the entire dynamic of our powerplay, which has been one of the best for several years because of that right handed shot.

The only way is if you reversed it and had Kucherov as the trigger man. That's audacious to think that happens.

 

[Sky04]

Until I see Point capable of hitting bombs for one timers, no thank you. He's great in the bumper because he has a different release and he's better in tight. Point isn't nearly as effective from distance if you put him on the left circle. He didn't get 50 hitting one timers from the top of the circle. His wrist shot and snap shot voids the left circle because any hesitation, like he does in the bumper position, totally negates one timers.

My point is, there's no legitimate right handed shot to put on that left circle without changing the entire dynamic of our powerplay, which has been one of the best for several years because of that right handed shot.

The only way is if you reversed it and had Kucherov as the trigger man. That's audacious to think that happens.

Jokes aside, Stamkos is easily the least important between him Kuch and Hedman. He's a turnover machine and gives it up quite easily when pressured. The PP is the best primarily because of Kucherov, Stamkos would look like a lost puppy without those feeds. The PP has also performed well without Stamkos multiple times, 2017 and 2020, both times TB had a top3 pp in the playoffs without Stamkos in the lineup, Kucherov and Hedman can adjust without him quite easily. The PP was a mess when Kucherov was out in 2021.

 

[Stammertime91]

Jokes aside, Stamkos is easily the least important between him Kuch and Hedman. He's a turnover machine and gives it up quite easily when pressured. The PP is the best primarily because of Kucherov, Stamkos would look like a lost puppy without those feeds. The PP has also performed well without Stamkos multiple times, 2017 and 2020, both times TB had a top3 pp in the playoffs without Stamkos in the lineup, Kucherov and Hedman can adjust without him quite easily. The PP was a mess when Kucherov was out in 2021.

Not denying it runs through Kucherov and he's the most important piece with Hedman behind. The only replacement I'd say is decent is Hagel but that changes the flow and looks adding a lefty there. Palat was in that role at times when Stamkos went down.

MSL did the same for Stamkos. Plenty of guys have. Same argument for Ovechkin off the circle.

Back to the original thought, Stamkos > Cirelli

 

[Outl4w]

I can't lie, Toronto spending a significant amount of money on Stamkos at this stage of his career would be incredibly funny.

Moving on from Tavares and signing Stamkos would be the most Toronto offseason ever. I hope it doesn't happen, but if it does It would be funny.