Speculation: 2023-2024 General Lightning Discussion - Part 3

[Stammertime91]

It's not about what they're worth. It's about what GMs around the league are giving to players of similar caliber. Those same GMs would jump at Anthong Cirelli and his contract.

Not even saying we should trade him. Just saying it's crazy to assert that his value is negative around the league.

Agreed. Anthong Cirelli has a lot of value.

 

[Five Alarm Fire]

Cirelli is still regarded as one of the best defensive forwards in the game, and has two cups under his belt. We wouldnt retain a penny.

I think your idea of player contracts is like 5-7 years behind reality.

Agreed. You can’t underestimate the desperation of teams like Buffalo, Ottawa, etc. that are desperate to add “winning culture”. He’s still moveable.

 

[DFC]

Agreed. You can’t underestimate the desperation of teams like Buffalo, Ottawa, etc. that are desperate to add “winning culture”. He’s still moveable.

He's beyond movable. Teams would line up if we made him available.

I feel like we are grading contracts sometimes by Yzerman era discounts, and not against league wide realities.

 

[Rschmitz]

He's beyond movable. Teams would line up if we made him available.

I feel like we are grading contracts sometimes by Yzerman era discounts, and not against league wide realities.

At the very least, looking at the trade forums, most Buffalo fans were lined up to deal their 1st for Cirelli.

 

[Felonious Python]

Stammer on the Utah Outlaws next season.

 

[Felonious Python]

Halpern mentioned as a Sharks coaching possibility. He played with GM Mike Grier for a few seasons.


The Sharks apparently have sort of a country club atmosphere, so a first time head coach may not have the experience or gravitas to turn that around.

I've also seen some fan issue with the AHL coach. The Barracuda were stuck adhering to decisions of the Quinn staff, however.

The new coach may have the ability to overhaul both staffs, which would benefit someone of more experience.

 

[JTBF81]

The only way I would listen on offers for Cirelli is if it's a hockey trade where Tampa gets back a legit top 4 dman(preferably an RD) with some term or an extension in place. Tampa needs considerable help on the blueline, so if one of the better 2 way F on the team(and in the league) is getting moved, anything less should be a non starter.

 

[Outl4w]

The only way I would listen on offers for Cirelli is if it's a hockey trade where Tampa gets back a legit top 4 dman(preferably an RD) with some term or an extension in place. Tampa needs considerable help on the blueline, so if one of the better 2 way F on the team(and in the league) is getting moved, anything less should be a non starter.

This

 

[Stelio Kontos]

The only way I would listen on offers for Cirelli is if it's a hockey trade where Tampa gets back a legit top 4 dman(preferably an RD) with some term or an extension in place. Tampa needs considerable help on the blueline, so if one of the better 2 way F on the team(and in the league) is getting moved, anything less should be a non starter.

Who is our 2C if we move cirelli? Who replaces him on the pk?

 

[Outl4w]

Who is our 2C if we move cirelli? Who replaces him on the pk?

Stamkos for 2nd line center and PK could easily be motte, essymont, glendenning and Hagel.

 

[JTBF81]

Who is our 2C if we move cirelli? Who replaces him on the pk?

Tampa can roll Point-Stamkos-Paul down the middle. The loss of him on the PK is unf, but Tampa needs significant help on the blueline. I don't think Cirelli will be moved, and Tampa will be able to add a lesser piece that still helps. If JBB did listen on him though, ideally it would be some kind of package deal for a lesser costed player like Byram or maybe Anderson, or if Tampa had a ufa in mind that they felt good about signing, trading Cirelli for a 1st+a lower prospect/player. It's unlikely he's actually moved, but they could add a much needed top 4 dman if he was available.

 

[DFC]

Stamkos for 2nd line center and PK could easily be motte, essymont, glendenning and Hagel.

I think "easily" is a strong word there.

I agree with Stammer at 2C, which I think should happen either way. But he will need a playmaker.

 

[Outl4w]

Tampa can roll Point-Stamkos-Paul down the middle. The loss of him on the PK is unf, but Tampa needs significant help on the blueline. I don't think Cirelli will be moved, and Tampa will be able to add a lesser piece that still helps. If JBB did listen on him though, ideally it would be some kind of package deal for a lesser costed player like Byram or maybe Anderson, or if Tampa had a ufa in mind that they felt good about signing, trading Cirelli for a 1st+a lower prospect/player. It's unlikely he's actually moved, but they could add a much needed top 4 dman if he was available.

I agree with if Cirelli is moved it has to be for a top4 Defenseman 28 and under signed to a contract for some term.

 

[Point21]

If Buffalo came calling with their 1st and a D prospect like Strbak for Cirelli, i would honestly take it. at pick 11 there are a few guys i would be interested in:

Konsta Helenius- Teammate of Huuhtanen and is a Possession driving C/RW that just needs to see Barb Underhill about improving his skating for his small size

Adam Jiricek- Great skating right handed dman with good size, season cut short due to a knee injury and his stock could drop with that

Sam Dickinson- Left handed dman but has all the tools to be a really solid two way dman for the top 4 when Heddy starts to regress

Carter Yakemchuk- Big right handed dman that is not scared to throw his weight around but would likely be another Cernak-eqse dman that takes alot of penalties

Michael Hage- 6'1 Center that can be a dual threat as a shooter and passer, good skater, likes to muck it up along the boards but needs to improve a little bit on the defensive side

 

[Stammertime91]

I think "easily" is a strong word there.

I agree with Stammer at 2C, which I think should happen either way. But he will need a playmaker.

Put the best playmaker with him. Point with Hagel. Get a forward with size capable of retrieving pucks. Duclair ain't it. If we kept Cirelli, put him with Hagel and Point. Let Kucherov and Stamkos develop chemistry with someone else.

 

[Stelio Kontos]

Put the best playmaker with him. Point with Hagel. Get a forward with size capable of retrieving pucks. Duclair ain't it. If we kept Cirelli, put him with Hagel and Point. Let Kucherov and Stamkos develop chemistry with someone else.

1. Can they teach jeannot how to skate and play with intensity over a summer?

2. Do people like Paul at 3C? I’m not sure what to think.. I think he’s better on wing but he needs better wingers if he’s going to be 3C. Cause Chaffee is no bueno most games. He and jeannot constantly battle for most useless forward

 

[DFC]

Put the best playmaker with him. Point with Hagel. Get a forward with size capable of retrieving pucks. Duclair ain't it. If we kept Cirelli, put him with Hagel and Point. Let Kucherov and Stamkos develop chemistry with someone else.

I'm not sure if Cooper would separate Point and Kucherov, but I'd be for it. If Stamkos/Kuch goes stale, we always have a good back up. That's a thing we've done in the past (Namestnikov-Stamkos-Kuch).

Point's zone entries are extremely effective though, and I do think he helps Kucherov a fair bit. So I would keep Hagel with Point in hope of having someone to take advantage of easy, consistent entries.

 

[Point21]

 

[DFC]

Never has there been better proof that that is a meaningless stat.

 

[JTBF81]

Hypothetically speaking, let's say Tampa trades Cirelli for Byram in some kind of deal. If JBB then offloads the contracts of Sheary, Jeannot and Perbix without taking any salary back, Tampa would then have approx 19 million in space. A roster like the following could be plausible:
Duclair(4)-Point-Kuch
Hagel-Stamkos(7)-Sprong/Debrusk(4-5)
Lafferty(2ish)-Paul-Chaffee(800-900k)
Motte(1)-Glendening-Eyssimont
Goncalves/Groshev etc as the rotating F(800k)

Hedman-Raddysh
Byram-Serg(or Serg-Byram)
Lilleberg-Cernak

The cap is tight, but the numbers above are just estimates, and I'm sure JBB could make it work.

 

[Flat Ronnie]

Hypothetically speaking, let's say Tampa trades Cirelli for Byram in some kind of deal. If JBB then offloads the contracts of Sheary, Jeannot and Perbix without taking any salary back, Tampa would then have approx 19 million in space. A roster like the following could be plausible:
Duclair(4)-Point-Kuch
Hagel-Stamkos(7)-Sprong/Debrusk(4-5)
Lafferty(2ish)-Paul-Chaffee(800-900k)
Motte(1)-Glendening-Eyssimont
Goncalves/Groshev etc as the rotating F(800k)

Hedman-Raddysh
Byram-Serg(or Serg-Byram)
Lilleberg-Cernak

The cap is tight, but the numbers above are just estimates, and I'm sure JBB could make it work.

Duclair at 4M just seems insane to me. Idk lol

 

[Stelio Kontos]

Stamkos for 2nd line center and PK could easily be motte, essymont, glendenning and Hagel.

I like 23 on the pk too

 

[JTBF81]

Duclair at 4M just seems insane to me. Idk lol

I would certainly try to sign him at 3-3.5, but I have a feeling if Tampa won't offer 4, somebody will.

 

[DFC]

Hypothetically speaking, let's say Tampa trades Cirelli for Byram in some kind of deal. If JBB then offloads the contracts of Sheary, Jeannot and Perbix without taking any salary back, Tampa would then have approx 19 million in space. A roster like the following could be plausible:
Duclair(4)-Point-Kuch
Hagel-Stamkos(7)-Sprong/Debrusk(4-5)
Lafferty(2ish)-Paul-Chaffee(800-900k)
Motte(1)-Glendening-Eyssimont
Goncalves/Groshev etc as the rotating F(800k)

Hedman-Raddysh
Byram-Serg(or Serg-Byram)
Lilleberg-Cernak

The cap is tight, but the numbers above are just estimates, and I'm sure JBB could make it work.

I dont think we are a go-to destination anymore, so we will have to pay competitively to lure free agents.

And even so, that forward group might not even be playoff caliber.

 

[JTBF81]

I dont think we are a go-to destination anymore, so we will have to pay competitively to lure free agents.

And even so, that forward group might not even be playoff caliber.

A forward group that has improved in the bottom 6, kept Duclair and Stamkos, and still added a solid middle 6 forward with upside in Sprong or Debrusk isn't playoff caliber? I'm not worried about the offense much, and adding a better dman to shore up where Tampa is weaker would be of great help. There are other dmen that Tampa could dangle Cirelli for in a trade package, like Anderson, or move him for a mid 1st+ and use assets for one, or make that type of trade and then acquire one in ufa, but regardless, the defense would get a much needed improvement and the offense remains playoff caliber. Lafferty is a solid bottom 6 addition, and better production wise than any of Sheary, Jeannot or even Chaffee based on this past season, and adding someone ljke Sprong or Debrusk(and there are others in this range), still gives Tampa a player capable of scoring 45-50 points, especially on a line with Hagel and Stamkos.