GDT: 2022 WJC Gold Medal Game FIN vs CAN 6pm MT, 8pm ET 2022-08-20

[Elvs]

That was off the top of my head. Using those 11 as a base it would be extremely easy to build a Canada Super Team.

Byfield-Jarvis-Wright-Sillinger is amazing Centre depth.

Top 4 of

Drysdale - Power
Clarke - Guhle

Better than any two other team in tournament together.

Slovakia definitely suffered from a lack of players but don't get close to a Team Canada either way.

USA is also missing quality players. Finland particularly isn't.

If you want to go through the exercise, I'll build a second Canadian Roster. You build a second roster of any other countries and we compare?

Why would I wanna do that? When did I ever argue that Canada doesn't have the deepest talent pool in the world by far? They absolutely do.

But per capita (registred hockey players) Canada isn't missing more players than anybody else. Of course every tournament is different, but overall the WHJC is fair game.

Again, my first post was in response to threads/posters suggesting Canada should be allowed multiple teams in the WHJC. Unless you're one of the posters advocating this, we have nothing more to discuss.

 

[AppalachianFinn13]

Dagnabbit that MacT save! No hard feelings, guys , but...

 

[ORRFForever]

Dang nabbit that MacT save! No hard feelings, guys , but...View attachment 578577

Ha, ha. The save was insane.

The swearing is what makes it so good.

Not for me - check out my avatar.

 

[Silky Johnson]

Would you rather have better players and bad coach? Or worse players, and far better coach?? Finland won three times in a row far better teams in that tournament

Canada won with a bad coach this year...

 

[Silky Johnson]

Your point around relating missing players to registered players in a country is nonsense and a complete non sequitor.

Of course the best hockey countries have the most registered players.

When talking about players not being available, it's relative to the number of players who WOULD have been on the team otherwise but didn't come and those did make the team.

 

[Ippenator]

Haha cry more. Maybe Finland should clean up its game, it’s easy taking penalties when you can’t keep up with the other team, naturally it leads to a lot of slashing, hooking and making questionable hits. Ultimately this is what sank the Finns, lack of composure and discipline.

Finland tied Canada with shots even when ”they were so much behind the play” and practically PK:ing one third of the game. Not very convincing domination from Canada, when you realize they got some huge amount of PP situations. There were a lot of soft calls against Finland, and on the other hand there were about 3 or 4 situations that with the same logic should have been penalties for Canada. No conspiracy theory by me, but obviously the referees were soft and crumbled under the pressure that the big and active home crowd was causing in many situations.

Canada was honestly quite lucky and the game could have really gone either way. And without the home advantage it would have been Finland’s game after all. But in this game and with these weak referees Canada was for sure just barely the better team. Congratulations to Canada for sure, but when you win that barely with certain advantages, don’t think that it was some great show of your superiority after all. You just barely won and were in big problems in the 3rd period as well as in the overtime, so enjoy your win, but with some moderation. You are not somekind of an absolute hockey power, but just one of them.

 

[NyQuil]

Canada was honestly quite lucky and the game could have really gone either way. And without the home advantage it would have been Finland’s game after all. But in this game and with these weak referees Canada was for sure just barely the better team. Congratulations to Canada for sure, but when you win that barely with certain advantages, don’t think that it was some great show of your superiority after all. You just barely won and were in big problems in the 3rd period as well as in the overtime, so enjoy your win, but with some moderation. You are not somekind of an absolute hockey power, but just one of them.

It's the exact opposite of the WHC final.

 

[Chainshot]

Ha, ha. The save was insane.


Not for me - check out my avatar.

Not in the habit of checking out avatars...


I'll show myself out.

 

[karhukissa]

Finland had all the momentum in the world after Kemell tied and Team Canada was in panic. No penalties and it would've been game over.

Fact is that most of the penalties were correct, but there was two clear bad calls. And when you make bad call at this stage it causes spiral which you don't want to have in this caliber game.

 

[Ippenator]

It's the exact opposite of the WHC final.

Might be, but my point was to calm down some of the Canadians here who are talking about some clear dominance and Canada being somekind of a lone hockey power in the world.

 

[ORRFForever]

Not in the habit of checking out avatars...


I'll show myself out.

 

[ORRFForever]

But we absolutely DO pity the losses that Slovakia suffered. They just don’t have the depth to overcome that like Canada did, and that unfortunately showed in the standings.

But here’s the thing… Canada can’t do this every year. This just happened to be a particularly strong birth year that we could lose that many top players (double our usual player losses) and still field not just a competitive team, but a dominant one.

That is true.

It's amazing how no one feels sorry for us when we lose half a team.

Canada won with a bad coach this year...

I'm not a fan but I'm not sure what he could have done differently - maybe show a little emotion.

 

[TonsofPuppies]

Might be, but my point was to calm down some of the Canadians here who are talking about some clear dominance and Canada being somekind of a lone hockey power in the world.

I think the answer lies somewhere in the middle of the extreme POVs, as it usually does. Is Canada head and shoulders above everyone else? Yes and no. Canada still produces most of the world's top tier players and is the most successful international team despite having to do so while often missing many of said best players. This year in particular was something else, if you are to look at the names missing from the Canadian WJC roster. With their full team and a non-braindead coach, they likely roll over the entire tournament like they did in 2005. This is not arrogance, it's just reality.

Having said all that, the competitive hockey landscape is as tightly contested as it has ever been and Canada is no longer the de facto favourite to win every single year. I don't think we'll ever see runs of 5 straight titles again, from any team. And I think you can definitely make the case that Finland is, per capita, the best hockey nation in the world. The results they achieve with such a smaller talent pool to dip into is incredible. Just as other nations did with Canada when it comes to emulating and learning from their success, I think it's also time for Hockey Canada to learn from other nations in areas that they can improve, particularly coaching and goaltending. Finland is definitely the first country I'd be studying for pointers if I were in charge at HC.

 

[Ippenator]

Canada won with a bad coach this year...

Finland and Sweden had coaches of the same level and similar approach as well. Quite poor coaching by the top teams in general. Well, the Czechs seem to have a very good coach, but I wasn’t honestly impressed with any of the other top team’s coaching.

 

[TonsofPuppies]

I'm not a fan but I'm not sure what he could have done differently - maybe show a little emotion.

- Not put Connor Bedard (arguably the best shooter on the team) in the bumper position on the power play.
- Not put out the same idiotic power play formation that was clearly not working, time after time, after time.
- Call a time out when it was clear the game was slipping away in the 3rd.
- Learn how to motivate a team so that they actually start on time as opposed to sleepwalking through the first 10 minutes of the game / period.
- Find a better solution to a line's defensive woes than replacing a bad defensive player (Othmann) with an even worse one (Will Cuyle).

I could go on and on, but there is A LOT he could have done differently. He did everything in his power last night to steal the gold medal from him own team, just as he did in 2011. Thankfully this time, the players themselves weren't having it.

 

[ORRFForever]

- Not put Connor Bedard (arguably the best shooter on the team) in the bumper position on the power play.
- Not put out the same idiotic power play formation that was clearly not working, time after time, after time.
- Call a time out when it was clear the game was slipping away in the 3rd.
- Learn how to motivate a team so that they actually start on time as opposed to sleepwalking through the first 10 minutes of the game / period.
- Find a better solution to a line's defensive woes than replacing a bad defensive player (Othmann) with an even worse one (Will Cuyle).

I could go on and on, but there is A LOT he could have done differently. He did everything in his power last night to steal the gold medal from him own team, just as he did in 2011. Thankfully this time, the players themselves weren't having it.

You make an excellent case.

Especially # 1. Bedard struggled along the walls but putting him in the bumper position made no sense. He was useless there.

 

[Ippenator]

I think the answer lies somewhere in the middle of the extreme POVs, as it usually does. Is Canada head and shoulders above everyone else? Yes and no. Canada still produces most of the world's top tier players and is the most successful international team despite having to do so while often missing many of said best players. This year in particular was something else, if you are to look at the names missing from the Canadian WJC roster. With their full team and a non-braindead coach, they likely roll over the entire tournament like they did in 2005. This is not arrogance, it's just reality.

Having said all that, the competitive hockey landscape is as tightly contested as it has ever been and Canada is no longer the de facto favourite to win every single year. I don't think we'll ever see runs of 5 straight titles again, from any team. And I think you can definitely make the case that Finland is, per capita, the best hockey nation in the world. The results they achieve with such a smaller talent pool to dip into is incredible. Just as other nations did with Canada when it comes to emulating and learning from their success, I think it's also time for Hockey Canada to learn from other nations in areas that they can improve, particularly coaching and goaltending. Finland is definitely the first country I'd be studying for pointers if I were in charge at HC.

Good and reasonable post. I agree with everything here. Of course I admit that Canada has the biggest amount of top class players. I don’t think that there can be any other result with that, when you think that they have very clearly the biggest amount of hockey players in the world and the great national passion and enthusiasm towards the sport.

But as any team sport is only played with one national team per country in the championship tournament and also there are many other countries that have a lot of passion as well as great knowledge within the sport, it can be any of the top 4 teams (with Russia it would be 5) that can win a championship tournament. And I think that the tournaments are the only reasonable way to decide how good each country is in the sport. Once again congratulations to Canada, but I also hope you understand to have at least some modesty with how you are as a hockey country when there are other hockey powers as well.

 

[ORRFForever]

I also understand to have at least some modesty with how you are as a hockey country when there are other hockey powers as well.

That's fair but after we lost to a lesser American team last year (that hurt) and we lost to the Fins at the World Championship on some horrible ref calls, we were due, so you'll have to forgive us for enjoy this - even if it is over the top.

 

[TonsofPuppies]

Good and reasonable post. I agree with everything here. Of course I admit that Canada has the biggest amount of top class players. I don’t think that there can be any other result with that, when you think that they have very clearly the biggest amount of hockey players in the world and the great national passion and enthusiasm towards the sport.

But as any team sport is only played with one national team in the championship tournament and also there are many other countries that have a lot of passion as well as great knowledge within the sport, it can be any of the top 4 teams (with Russia it would be 5) that can win a championship tournament. And I think that the tournaments are the only reasonable way to decide how good each country is in the sport. Once again congratulations to Canada, but I also understand to have at least some modesty with how you are as a hockey country when there are other hockey powers as well.

My best advice is to ignore the poor winners (and poor losers) that infest HF. I think it's shortsighted to paint massive fanbases based on the actions of a small few. It's just usually the idiots and the assholes that are the most vocal and every fanbase has them.

I personally have nothing but respect for the Finns and all they've accomplished, especially recently. They've been my second favourite international team forever, because of their tenacity, determination and work ethic, even if the most they could ever hope for the majority of that time was a bronze medal. Now that the work ethic has been instilled in Finland's hockey culture for decades, the talent and results are starting to follow and that is awesome to see. We're definitely seeing a changing of the guard. While the top three (imo) used to be Canada, Russia, and Sweden, I think it's pretty clear at the moment that it's Canada, USA and Finland. Trust me when I say I wanted to face Sweden in the GMG a lot more than Finland. Not bad for a country with a population of 5.5M.

 

[57special]

Canada won, but it's a toss up as to who is the best team. Out of 10 games, I'd say CAN might win 5-6, FIN 4-5.It's that close.

Stankoven really came alive at the end of the tournament. They needed him.

 

[Peiskos]

Finland tied Canada with shots even when ”they were so much behind the play” and practically PK:ing one third of the game. Not very convincing domination from Canada, when you realize they got some huge amount of PP situations. There were a lot of soft calls against Finland, and on the other hand there were about 3 or 4 situations that with the same logic should have been penalties for Canada. No conspiracy theory by me, but obviously the referees were soft and crumbled under the pressure that the big and active home crowd was causing in many situations.

Canada was honestly quite lucky and the game could have really gone either way. And without the home advantage it would have been Finland’s game after all. But in this game and with these weak referees Canada was for sure just barely the better team. Congratulations to Canada for sure, but when you win that barely with certain advantages, don’t think that it was some great show of your superiority after all. You just barely won and were in big problems in the 3rd period as well as in the overtime, so enjoy your win, but with some moderation. You are not somekind of an absolute hockey power, but just one of them.

There have been 14 best vs best tournaments (tournaments with NHL players) to have taken place throughout history, those being..

1972 Summit Series - Canada (1)
1976 Canada Cup - Canada (2)
1981 Canada Cup - USSR (1)
1984 Canada Cup - Canada (3)
1987 Canada Cup - Canada (4)
1991 Canada Cup - Canada (5)
1996 World Cup of Hockey - USA (1)
1998 OIympics - Czech Republic (1)
2002 Olympics - Canada (6)
2004 World Cup of Hockey - Canada (7)
2006 Olympics - Sweden (1)
2010 Olympics - Canada (8)
2014 Olympics - Canada (9)
2016 World Cup of Hockey - Canada (10)

Canada has won a staggering 10 of the 14 best vs best hockey tournaments to ever take place in the sports history... no country has ever won more than 1 of these tournaments, Canada has 10. There is indisputable proof that Canada is an absolute hockey power, nobody else has even come close to this kind of display of dominance, those are just the facts bud.

Let me guess, Canada "just barely" won those tournaments too right? Let it go.

 

[NyQuil]

2016 World Cup doesn’t deserve inclusion.

 

[Peiskos]

2016 World Cup doesn’t deserve inclusion.

Even so, remove 2016..does my point still not stand? its utter dominance when it comes to best vs best for Canada.

 

[ORRFForever]

2016 World Cup doesn’t deserve inclusion.

I feel it does. We were terrific.

 

[NyQuil]

Even so, remove 2016..does my point still not stand? its utter dominance when it comes to best vs best for Canada.

Well, ‘72 only had Canada and the Soviet Union.

Generally I’m inclined to separate it in terms of pre-1998 and the Olympic era.

I think that Canada winning 3 of 5 Olympic tournaments is impressive, and I usually include the 2004 World Cup because it had good competition and some exciting games.