Prospect Info: 2022 - 1st OA] Juraj Slafkovsky (LW) Part 4

[lou4gehrig]

Tage Thompson kept getting invoked in recent weeks as a “patience is a virtue” comparable. “Big guys take longer to come around”…

I don’t particularly agree that Slaf and Tage ought to be compared, and one was rushed to the NHL and the other was very much not, but it goes to show how much hollow crap gets pulled out of many asses in order to post-hoc justify every move the Habs organization makes.

If it takes 2-3 years for Slaf to get to where he ought to be, there is no shame in that. I don’t think it should and he’s played at a high enough level that it needn’t be the case but you never know. The absolute worst thing would be what the Habs are doing: rushing him to no tangible gain or benefit and with a needlessly increased risk of injury.

Slaf’s trending behind Kotkaniemi and Galchenyuk’s rookie season production. Given his ample physical gifts (and superior skating to both) the obvious elephant in the room, therefore, is his playmaking and play reading ability. He is behind the play… because he was not NHL ready… and it showed in Rookie Camp and in Training Camp… but the Habs rushed him anyway and Habs fans here quickly justified it to themselves by any means necessary.

I think he will up his production rate this year, and possibly finish with more than 30pts. I have a feeling he’s in a nadir now and will get some good luck soon (possibly when Moneyhands Monaghan comes back). But if there are Habs fans who think Galchenyuk or Kotkaniemi was mishandled by the Habs, then they are surely going to have to admit Slafkovsky’s been rushed to his own detriment.

You sound so certain on how things will turn out. When in reality you're just guessing like everyone else. You can cherry pick examples to support or hinder your "expertise". Maybe KK and Galchenyuk didn't pan out because they are crappy players and it had zero to do with their development in Montreal. Jack Hughes had 20 points in 60 games his first season. Joe Thornton started slow. Ryan Poehling dominated in his first game. Who the F cares? Our coach is the most self made player in NHL history. If he feels Slaf needs to be in the AHL, he would be. The whole team has played worse now than when the season started. Not just Slaf.

The Habs 2022-23 are a crap team in transition, picking up crap contracts, trying to flip them for assets. True supporterss don't nitpick a team at the bottom full of young players. I see tons of insecurity on there that the number 1 overall didn't turn into McDavid, Crosby, Mackinnon etc.

Yes he was. He was one of the most highly touted prospects in the world, in fact, at one point he was the top prospect in the world and not once did he look the part. He was putting up goals while looking horrible and being a train wreck/liability everywhere on the ice.

Scoring goals on one timers are not the only thing that wins games. You need to prevent them too.

He wasn't even the top pick in this draft. He wasn't even the top pick off his own junior team. Most highly touted prospect in the world? You mean in the Montreal paranoia world.

 

[Jaaanosik]

...

Slaf’s trending behind Kotkaniemi and Galchenyuk’s rookie season production. Given his ample physical gifts (and superior skating to both) the obvious elephant in the room, therefore, is his playmaking and play reading ability. He is behind the play… because he was not NHL ready… and it showed in Rookie Camp and in Training Camp… but the Habs rushed him anyway and Habs fans here quickly justified it to themselves by any means necessary.
...

How do you measure playmaking and play reading ability?

 

[ReHabs]

You can cherry pick examples to support or hinder your "expertise". … Jack Hughes had 20 points in 60 games his first season. Joe Thornton started slow. Ryan Poehling dominated in his first game.

You think pointing at the Habs rushing Kotkaniemi and Galchenyuk (our last two top3 picks) is cherry picking but you then cited Jack Hughes, Joe Thornton (drafted over twenty years ago), and Ryan Poehling who is as irrelevant as it gets to this conversation.

Who’s cherry picking, me or you? Be honest.

 

[ReHabs]

How do you measure playmaking and play reading ability?

By eye + production (g+a) + shot attempts and shots. Also the negative space — that is, how he deals without the puck.

I know I’ve been very critical of Slaf and his handling and for that reason I’ve tried to stay away from this discussion in recent days but a good many here (and on Twitter, Reddit) are downright arrogant about the Habs’ ability to develop this guy and his problem areas. I simply don’t see it and that’s why we tend to clash.

And every time we come to remotely the same plane (eg Dont expect too much, he is very raw, he needs time and patience) the pro-Slaf side pulls the rug and insists that he must stay in the NHL and the arguments they put forth are either dubious (Joe and Vinny 20+ years ago had unproductive rookie seasons before breaking out so that’ll be the case for Slaf too) or nonsensical (eg You develop NHLers by playing them in the NHL).

If he was in the AHL or elsewhere since the start of the year none of this gnashing of teeth would’ve happened and I am certain the Habs NHL roster wouldn’t have missed him.

 

[Jaaanosik]

By eye + production (g+a) + shot attempts and shots. Also the negative space — that is, how he deals without the puck.

I know I’ve been very critical of Slaf and his handling and for that reason I’ve tried to stay away from this discussion in recent days but a good many here (and on Twitter, Reddit) are downright arrogant about the Habs’ ability to develop this guy and his problem areas. I simply don’t see it and that’s why we tend to clash.

And every time we come to remotely the same plane (eg Dont expect too much, he is very raw, he needs time and patience) the pro-Slaf side pulls the rug and insists that he must stay in the NHL and the arguments they put forth are either dubious (Joe and Vinny 20+ years ago had unproductive rookie seasons before breaking out so that’ll be the case for Slaf too) or nonsensical (eg You develop NHLers by playing them in the NHL).

If he was in the AHL or elsewhere since the start of the year none of this gnashing of teeth would’ve happened and I am certain the Habs NHL roster wouldn’t have missed him.

How would you evaluate Suzuki in his last 5 games?

 

[Tyson]

When Jiricek was called up to Columbus he immediately stated the game was too fast for him. He is currently averaging a point per game in the AHL learning the NA game.
Nemec is also developing in the AHL. Maybe it's time to slow things down for Slaf.

 

[Boss Man Hughes]

You think pointing at the Habs rushing Kotkaniemi and Galchenyuk (our last two top3 picks) is cherry picking but you then cited Jack Hughes, Joe Thornton (drafted over twenty years ago), and Ryan Poehling who is as irrelevant as it gets to this conversation.

Who’s cherry picking, me or you? Be honest.

Galchenyuk and KK are irrelevant. They were rushed in and expected to contribute immediately thanks to the previous incompetent management. Juraj is in the NHL to learn from MSL and he is not expected to come out running. That is probably why he isn't on Suzuki's line.

 

[Jaaanosik]

Galchenyuk and KK are irrelevant. They were rushed in and expected to contribute immediately thanks to the previous incompetent management. Juraj is in the NHL to learn from MSL and he is not expected to come out running. That is probably why he isn't on Suzuki's line.

Slaf got benched in the third period for a couple of games and the sky is falling.
Nobody outside of couple of people knows why that was the case.
The analysis of reasoning on this board was entertaining.
The guessing game is hilarious.

 

[BehindTheTimes]

By the time in his D+4/5 that Gachenyuk became a ppg player, he was also a plus player.

The crash came after that, when he got hurt and did not rehab properly. There might have been off-ice issues, I believe he went into the player assistance program at one point.

He never looked like a legit top 6 forward imo. I remember this board arguing over why he wasn’t playing center, the guy could barely cover defensively on the wing.

This was a clear case of development mismanagement. Ffs the kid missed a year of hockey with a blown out knee and we still rush him to the bigs as an 18 year old. Then once he got here it seemed like we were actively working against him.

I repeat what I say with Slaf, the most important thing for 18 years olds is to play. Even if it’s in a league they dominate, it builds their confidence, refines some tools and capitalizes on their momentum in the years they mature the most. These guys aren’t learning anything playing 10-12 minutes a night and waking up with a headache once a week. It’s terrible for their progress. Tbh, I’m not sure how anyone can defend it. Some of the good ones will succeed anyway, but it doesn’t mean it’s what is best for them.

 

[BehindTheTimes]

In terms of 5on5 effectiveness, Galchenyuk peaked in his rookie year.

His later "peaks" were artificially inflated by power play production.

A player of his stature always looked like he was struggling to stay afloat. I feel a little nurturing early and who knows what the story is on him.

He came in too early too imo. Missed a year of prime development, this point cannot be understated. It’s the same as Wright right now, except Seattle is sort of making our handling of Galchenyuk look good. Haha. These guys could’ve both benefitted from time in the AHL.

 

[BehindTheTimes]

You sound so certain on how things will turn out. When in reality you're just guessing like everyone else. You can cherry pick examples to support or hinder your "expertise". Maybe KK and Galchenyuk didn't pan out because they are crappy players and it had zero to do with their development in Montreal. Jack Hughes had 20 points in 60 games his first season. Joe Thornton started slow. Ryan Poehling dominated in his first game. Who the F cares? Our coach is the most self made player in NHL history. If he feels Slaf needs to be in the AHL, he would be. The whole team has played worse now than when the season started. Not just Slaf.

The Habs 2022-23 are a crap team in transition, picking up crap contracts, trying to flip them for assets. True supporterss don't nitpick a team at the bottom full of young players. I see tons of insecurity on there that the number 1 overall didn't turn into McDavid, Crosby, Mackinnon etc.


He wasn't even the top pick in this draft. He wasn't even the top pick off his own junior team. Most highly touted prospect in the world? You mean in the Montreal paranoia world.

Nope. There was a time where he surpassed Yakupov as the top prospect in the game. This isn’t debatable, it’s fact.

 

[TheImpatientPanther]

1 goal since November 8th, 10pts in 29 games, is he getting better or in over his head?

 

[Tyson]

1 goal since November 8th, 10pts in 29 games, is he getting better or in over his head?

The game intensity is ratcheting up, Slaf needs some time in Laval.

 

[Ozmodiar]

Galchenyuk and KK are irrelevant. They were rushed in and expected to contribute immediately thanks to the previous incompetent management. Juraj is in the NHL to learn from MSL and he is not expected to come out running. That is probably why he isn't on Suzuki's line.

When ice time or production doesn’t meet some people’s expectations, they think - “promote him or demote him (minors).”

Meanwhile he’s learning under MSL, getting integrated into the system, playing with and against NHL’ers.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

In terms of 5on5 effectiveness, Galchenyuk peaked in his rookie year.

His later "peaks" were artificially inflated by power play production.

He did really well when given the opportunity at first line center. The numbers showed this again and again but we'd misuse him. That was a recurring theme. His coach was an absolute moron.

Bad development and injuries sidelined him. He was never able to grow into the player he should've been. He had his warts and was never going to be a Selke contender but he could score and had solid skills offensively. We totally wasted him as we did so many others over the years.

As for Slaf... I felt like he should've been left in the minors since day one. I will admit that he's had stretches where he's looked good and he did improve. But I'm not thrilled with how MSL has been using him and when Monahan went down, it wrecked the momentum that he had going on that line.

As usual, people here seem to be taking extreme positions one way or the other. Personally, he's shown me enough to think that we drafted a good player. He's not what I would've taken but that's okay. He's got skills and great potential. I'm happy with it. But I don't think the NHL is where he should be right now. It's silly to have him here and bench him in third periods. And he's got nobody to play with here. The whole team is struggling... just send him down.

 

[Riggins]

1 goal since November 8th, 10pts in 29 games, is he getting better or in over his head?

Doesn't belong in the league yet like the rest of the 2022 draft class

 

[The Great Weal]

Maybe it's PTSD from our other top 3 picks, but I don't have a good feeling about where this is going. Yes you can laugh at me all you want but I believe I am more than justified in questioning this organization (especially since Lapointe is still here). KK/Galchenyuk were bad picks that were handled poorly. Slaf was a questionable pick from the get go and so far is being handled worse than those two. Not like Gorton and Borbov have a good drafting resume in the top 10 anyways with Lafereniere, Kakko, Andersson, Kravtsov.

No I'm not throwing in the towel or anything like that, but the unwillingness to try him with good players and play him over guys like Dadonov/Hoffman/Armia/Drouin is making it evident that he should be sent down at the very least. MSL flat out said they want him to focus on even strength game rather than producing for now which to me is a terrible mentality for a prospect that already didn't have the greatest production last year outside of the Olympics and some awful teams in the World Championship.

 

[Kennerback]

Slaf got benched in the third period for a couple of games and the sky is falling.
Nobody outside of couple of people knows why that was the case.
The analysis of reasoning on this board was entertaining.
The guessing game is hilarious.

I have not been a fan of Slaf’s game these last 3 games. I believed he was fine until then. Ultimately, he needs good time on the ice. All the offensive zone starts are given to the Suzuki line. And with MSL being so hot on Drouin, Hoffman, Armia, etc…More so than Slafkovsky, decisions need to be made. He can’t sit 3rd periods, he needs to play wherever that may be.

 

[SlafySZN]

Maybe it's PTSD from our other top 3 picks, but I don't have a good feeling about where this is going. Yes you can laugh at me all you want but I believe I am more than justified in questioning this organization (especially since Lapointe is still here). KK/Galchenyuk were bad picks that were handled poorly. Slaf was a questionable pick from the get go and so far is being handled worse than those two. Not like Gorton and Borbov have a good drafting resume in the top 10 anyways with Lafereniere, Kakko, Andersson, Kravtsov.

No I'm not throwing in the towel or anything like that, but the unwillingness to try him with good players and play him over guys like Dadonov/Hoffman/Armia/Drouin is making it evident that he should be sent down at the very least. MSL flat out said they want him to focus on even strength game rather than producing for now which to me is a terrible mentality for a prospect that already didn't have the greatest production last year outside of the Olympics and some awful teams in the World Championship.

Who would you have taken instead of these two at the time?

 

[Kennerback]

I still like Slaf more than anyone in the 2022 draft. Still not convinced at all about the others… And in this WJC, the only 2023 that’s blown me away is Bedard. I loved Carlsson and Fantilli in league play, but I want to see something extra special from them in this upcoming WJC.

 

[The Great Weal]

Who would you have taken instead of these two at the time?

I would have went with Wright but I was also vocal about trading down for 6+12 since I knew there was a good chance we would get a center better than Wright in the 2023 draft (assuming Habs thought the same). I had Jiricek at #2 and he's looking like a monster, I was also a huge Nazar fan (had him around #5 I believe) so coming out of the draft with Jircek and Nazar was my best case scenario. Of course Nazar's injury may ruin his likelihood of reaching that potential, but I would still rather have those two.

 

[SlafySZN]

I would have went with Wright but I was also vocal about trading down for 6+12 since I knew there was a good chance we would get a center better than Wright in the 2023 draft (assuming Habs thought the same). I had Jiricek at #2 and he's looking like a monster, I was also a huge Nazar fan (had him around #5 I believe) so coming out of the draft with Jircek and Nazar was my best case scenario. Of course Nazar's injury may ruin his likelihood of reaching that potential, but I would still rather have those two.

I was talking about Gorton’s choice of Lafreniere and Kakko. Seems you were faulting him for it. They were the guys anyone would have taken.

 

[The Great Weal]

I was talking about Gorton’s choice of Lafreniere and Kakko. Seems you were faulting him for it. They were the guys anyone would have taken.

My bad, I didn't see the bolded. No those were the picks pretty much everyone would have made, but the development for them has been brutal and therefore should still be part of their resume. That being said it was always questionable how Laf would excel there playing behind Panarin and Kreider. Andersson was a brutal pick from the get go and they had Kravtsov ranked 3rd overall in the draft.

 

[tobu]

Last day to send him to WJC.

 

[Adam Michaels]

Last day to send him to WJC.

I believe tomorrow is the deadline. I think I heard them say it in the broadcast yesterday during the Sweden/Switzerland game.