Line Combos: 2021-22 lines (Part 2)

[417]

I’d love to see Poehling take a spot.

Toffoli-Suzuki-Caufield
Drouin-Dvorak-Anderson
Hoffman-Poehling-Gallagher
Lehkonen-Evans-Armia
Perrrault-Paquette

 

[Vachon23]

Agreed.

I'd say 15-25 is a more apt range.

If petry or one of suzuki/Dvorak are out for a long stretch, falling out of the top 20 seems likely.

And unless everything goes right and one of the 4 elite teams in our division falters heavily, hard to see this roster finish better than 5th, making a top 12 finish very unlikely.

Yes the Center depth really worry me

 

[le_sean]

Most believe our defense is a weakness. I don't think so. I think the big question mark is our center corps. Even if Suzuki and Dvorak live up to expectations our #3 & #4 are two positions of concern until proven otherwise.

They’re only asking Evans to give us what KK gave us which was 30 points in an 82 game season. I think he’s capable of that. 4C offence is irrelevant if his wingers are a combination of Lehkonen/Armia/Byron/Perreault. No other team in the league has that type of talent on their 4th line.

The biggest question is will Suzuki make that next jump. And what exactly is Caufield going to be as a rookie and can he keep it up for 82 games.

I think this will be a great road team because they can roll 4 lines with confidence. Also now their PP won’t be a momentum killer.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Lack of puck-moving ability and creativity from the blueline and a lack of suitable centers for our winger group.

I agree on the lack of offensive puck movers on the back end but lets see who makes it between Norlinder, Niku, and Wideman. Might improve but only a bit. Top two centers are great fits IMO. Bottom 2 have question marks.

Does all of this put us out of the playoff race by the deadline though? I think those flaws or areas to address hold out from being a top top 10 team. I feel our range is 12-20 range.

 

[Habs Halifax]

I could see them being worse than top 20

Possible yes but a lot of bad things need to happen for that. Look how bad our roster was in 19/20... we were 24th. Flaws with that 19/20 roster are not the same as the flaws we have heading into this season IMO.

I feel the chances to slipping worse than top 10 are the same as cracking that top 10 door. Oppose ends of circumstance between having a season where everything goes our way vs everything not going our way

 

[Habs Halifax]

I’d love to see Poehling take a spot.

Toffoli-Suzuki-Caufield
Drouin-Dvorak-Anderson
Hoffman-Poehling-Gallagher
Lehkonen-Evans-Armia
Perrrault-Paquette

If Poehling takes a spot ahead of Evans, that's a good thing cause that means Poehling is producing and management feels he is ready for it. I have my doubts but it's early in camp. We will see.

Hoffman and Gallagher would be two good wingers for Poehling and Lehkonen and Armia are two good wingers for Evans.

 

[Essenege]

The thing I hate the most about our lineup is seeing Armia stuck on the 4th line.

He’s basically the definition of what you want on a 3rd line, stellar possession guy with some good offensive instincts.

I think he is a much better 5v5 player then Hoffman. Can he play LW so we have him play with Evans and Gallagher at 3LW? Hoffman with limited and sheltered 5v5 minutes but all the PP time you can get him.

 

[le_sean]

The thing I hate the most about our lineup is seeing Armia stuck on the 4th line.

He’s basically the definition of what you want on a 3rd line, stellar possession guy with some good offensive instincts.

I think he is a much better 5v5 player then Hoffman. Can he play LW so we have him play with Evans and Gallagher at 3LW? Hoffman with limited and sheltered 5v5 minutes but all the PP time you can get him.

Yeah give less minutes and opportunity to the guy scoring over 30 goals regularly for the guy that has one good game out of every 5.

 

[Essenege]

Yeah give less minutes and opportunity to the guy scoring over 30 goals regularly for the guy that has one good game out of every 5.

In the last 2 shortened season, both players have basically the same 5v5 goal scoring rates

Both are .15 G/Gp

.77 vs .72 per 60 minutes played in favour of Hoffman.

Difference being Hoffman is a minus player, and a way worse 2 way/possession player.

Hoffman had better seasons in terms of 5v5 scoring so if he reverts to those, yes maybe. If not, the team is better with Armia playing more 5v5 minutes.

 

[OpenIceHit]

Which line will play against the best line from the other team? It looks like the 4th will be the most defensive minded one. This line needs a good center at the faceoffs circle.

 

[le_sean]

In the last 2 shortened season, both players have basically the same 5v5 goal scoring rates

Both are .15 G/Gp

.77 vs .72 per 60 minutes played in favour of Hoffman.

Difference being Hoffman is a minus player, and a way worse 2 way/possession player.

Hoffman had better seasons in terms of 5v5 scoring so if he reverts to those, yes maybe. If not, the team is better with Armia playing more 5v5 minutes.

Since 2018 Hoffman has nearly double the even strength goals as Armia, on top of 35 PP goals. If you want to talk specifically about 5v5 Hoffman, has 28 more points in that span.

It’s weird that people forget that Hoffman had 70 points in 2018-19 and was on pace to do the same the year after until the season was cut short. He’s easily the team’s best offensive LW. You don’t put that player on a 4th line.

 

[japhi]

Glass half full guy here and am pretty excited about that forward group. Toff, Gally, Hoffman are solid locks for 30, or close it. Got to
believe CC gets close. Anderson as well. Suzuki and DVO should be locks for 20. Armia on the 4th line ffs.

I understand there are so many goals to go around but this team is going to score goals. Add in defensive strength at the backend and two starting goalies and you gotta be optimistic. Add a PMD and look out

 

[Habs Icing]

They’re only asking Evans to give us what KK gave us which was 30 points in an 82 game season. I think he’s capable of that. 4C offence is irrelevant if his wingers are a combination of Lehkonen/Armia/Byron/Perreault. No other team in the league has that type of talent on their 4th line.

The biggest question is will Suzuki make that next jump. And what exactly is Caufield going to be as a rookie and can he keep it up for 82 games.

I think this will be a great road team because they can roll 4 lines with confidence. Also now their PP won’t be a momentum killer.

I'm not saying they can't do it. I'm simply saying the bottom two centers for me are positions of concern whereas I don't have any concern for the defence (unless of course it gets decimated by massive injuries). Savard is replacing a Weber who probably had his worst regular season play. Romanov will have one year of experience and Wideman looks like he can play in the NHL (fingers crossed). So the defence doesn't really worry me. Aside from Evans play there's a big question mark concerning his health. The kid is a magnet for head hunters and injuries. The 4th center is who? Paquette, Perrault? Poehling? I'm not saying they can't do a better job than last year's corps, I'm just saying when I look at this team the area of concern I have is at center.

 

[Essenege]

Since 2018 Hoffman has nearly double the even strength goals as Armia, on top of 35 PP goals. If you want to talk specifically about 5v5 Hoffman, has 28 more points in that span.

It’s weird that people forget that Hoffman had 70 points in 2018-19 and was on pace to do the same the year after until the season was cut short. He’s easily the team’s best offensive LW. You don’t put that player on a 4th line.

God damn people in here just can’t present the numbers honestly.

We’re talking 5v5 lines, I specifically said in my OP « give him as much PP time as you can ». Who cares about PP points when we’re talking 5v5 line combos? Only 5v5 production and possession matters.

Armia missed a bunch of games in the last 3 seasons, and you compare the totals? Come on.

In the last 3 seasons:

Armia : .141 goal per gp, .68 per 60
Hoffman : .167 goal per GP, .79 per 60

Hoffman has 1.57 pts per 60 to Armia’s 1.30.

It’s not enough of a gap to justify the additional goals we’ll be scored on when Hoffman is on the ice, IMO. That is if Armia is ok with LW which I don’t know.

Maybe I’m being too dramatic about Hoffman’s positional and defensive play. I’d be happy to be proven wrong there.

 

[26Mats]

Glass half full guy here and am pretty excited about that forward group. Toff, Gally, Hoffman are solid locks for 30, or close it. Got to
believe CC gets close. Anderson as well. Suzuki and DVO should be locks for 20. Armia on the 4th line ffs.

I understand there are so many goals to go around but this team is going to score goals. Add in defensive strength at the backend and two starting goalies and you gotta be optimistic. Add a PMD and look out

Health, and how are C's do will be crucial.

Also, Armia, Drouin, and Anderson look great one night and are invisible the next. If any if them are able to take their game to another level, that would be big.

May need to get a better 4c than Paquette to play with the likes of Lehk, byron, army, Perreault (and/or Drouin and Anderson?).

 

[japhi]

Health, and how are C's do will be crucial.

Also, Arm iui a, Drouin, and Anderson look great one night and are invisible the next. If any if them are able to take their game to another leve look, that would be big.

May need to get a better 4c than Paquette to play with the likes of Lehk, byron, army, Perreault (and/or Drouin and Anderson?).

Sure, the lineup isn’t perfect but when have we had this many guys that can score? Can’t be that many teams with 5/6 guys that have a legit shot at 3o.

 

[le_sean]

God damn people in here just can’t present the numbers honestly.

We’re talking 5v5 lines, I specifically said in my OP « give him as much PP time as you can ». Who cares about PP points when we’re talking 5v5 line combos? Only 5v5 production and possession matters.

Armia missed a bunch of games in the last 3 seasons, and you compare the totals? Come on.

In the last 3 seasons:

Armia : .141 goal per gp, .68 per 60
Hoffman : .167 goal per GP, .79 per 60

Hoffman has 1.57 pts per 60 to Armia’s 1.30.

It’s not enough of a gap to justify the additional goals we’ll be scored on when Hoffman is on the ice, IMO. That is if Armia is ok with LW which I don’t know. .

Maybe I’m being too dramatic about Hoffman’s positional and defensive play. I’d be happy to be proven wrong there.

I am presenting the numbers honestly. Mike Hoffman outscores Armia at even strength. Per 60 for EV points, Hoffman is at 2.025 for his career versus Armia at 1.394.

It’s asinine to even be contemplating putting a 36 goal scorer on the 4th line instead of a 16 goal scorer because of “defence.”

 

[Beer and Chips]

Hoffman, Evans, and Galagher could be an exciting line, I want to see some fun hockey not robots.

 

[KevSkillz4]

Hoffman, Evans, and Galagher could be an exciting line, I want to see some fun hockey not robots.

Potentially to become the best 3rd line in NHL.

 

[Essenege]

I am presenting the numbers honestly. Mike Hoffman outscores Armia at even strength. Per 60 for EV points, Hoffman is at 2.025 for his career versus Armia at 1.394.

It’s asinine to even be contemplating putting a 36 goal scorer on the 4th line instead of a 16 goal scorer because of “defence.”

Yeah he had 36G in 18-19, but was -24 (!). A massive outlier amongst Panthers forwards. In that particular season I’m not sure he helped the Panthers win games. Defence matters.

Also, again, they almost have the same goal scoring rate at 5v5 despite that 36 goals season in the last 3yrs. The way you present the numbers, it looks like Hoffman scores double the goals Armia does. At 5v5, what we’re talking about, he has .02 goals per GP more then Armia...or like not even 2 goals over 82GP.

Also you shouldn’t use ES numbers, which are polluted by 3v3 OT

 

[26Mats]

Sure, the lineup isn’t perfect but when have we had this many guys that can score? Can’t be that many teams with 5/6 guys that have a legit shot at 3o.

There are a lot of intriguing pieces, and the quantity if good pieces is intriguing.

Whether they can be put together as a nice puzzle will be interesting to watch over the course of the year.

 

[le_sean]

Yeah he had 36G in 18-19, but was -24 (!). A massive outlier amongst Panthers forwards. In that particular season I’m not sure he helped the Panthers win games. Defence matters.

Also, again, they almost have the same goal scoring rate at 5v5 despite that 36 goals season in the last 3yrs. The way you present the numbers, it looks like Hoffman scores double the goals Armia does. At 5v5, what we’re talking about, he has .02 goals per GP more then Armia...or like not even 2 goals over 82GP.

Also you shouldn’t use ES numbers, which are polluted by 3v3 OT

ES is what it is. When all things are equal. It should especially be considered for this team that was awful 3 on 3. If we found someone that has positive value there, why ignore it?

Huberdeau was -14 that season. Is he not playable? Why not reference the season after when Hoffman scored at a 36 goal pace again and was only -5? Convenient I guess.

It’s silly to claim Hoffman didn’t help the Panthers win games even if he scored 36 goals. This is pointless.

 

[Goalfield22]

ES is what it is. When all things are equal. It should especially be considered for this team that was awful 3 on 3. If we found someone that has positive value there, why ignore it?

Huberdeau was -14 that season. Is he not playable? Why not reference the season after when Hoffman scored at a 36 goal pace again and was only -5? Convenient I guess.

It’s silly to claim Hoffman didn’t help the Panthers win games even if he scored 36 goals. This is pointless.

I said it once and I will say it again. We didn't sign Hoffman to play on the 4th line. This is ridiculous.

 

[EveryDay]

Yeah he had 36G in 18-19, but was -24 (!). A massive outlier amongst Panthers forwards. In that particular season I’m not sure he helped the Panthers win games. Defence matters.

Also, again, they almost have the same goal scoring rate at 5v5 despite that 36 goals season in the last 3yrs. The way you present the numbers, it looks like Hoffman scores double the goals Armia does. At 5v5, what we’re talking about, he has .02 goals per GP more then Armia...or like not even 2 goals over 82GP.

Also you shouldn’t use ES numbers, which are polluted by 3v3 OT

Sure but 2 years ago he was only -5 while posting 29G 30A in 69 games only trailing Barkov by 3 points as the 2nd most productive player of the team. He was also the best goalscorer of his team for a 2nd year in a row.

 

[Goalfield22]

We have been dying to get some goal scorers on this team for years, and then once we get them, we stick them on the 4th line. My goodness... Give your head a shake, guys.