NHL Entry Draft 2020 NHL Draft Discussion - PART XIII [We got 3-5]

[aragorn]

Again, what you guys are saying makes sense when it comes to building a team to contend for the playoffs, but is Ottawa really in a position to draft based on playoff potential at this point in time?

I think so, they have a number of young players already that I think should be on a future team. There are a lot of players in this draft that they could add that could help propel Ottawa into being a playoff team. All depends on what kind of a team they want & are building. Are they building a regular season finesse team that has a lot of success putting up pts to fill the arena or do they want a bigger, tougher team that can compete in the playoffs & go on a cup run?

I think most people in Ottawa & on this board want a finesse team. I think the owner & GM prefer finesse players over tougher players. How many people on here would want a player like Cuylle on this team? My guess is not many, yet a guy like Tom Wilson makes a difference in the playoffs. Just a preference I guess.

 

[RAFI BOMB]

There is risk in that however and I do not necessarily agree that it is the best way to end up with the "better" player in the draft.

Why?

Because it is usually very rare to know the "type" of player that excels in the playoffs, let alone to know it so early on, at the draft.

Secondly, a team like Ottawa should be drafting players who will first and foremost have great regular seasons, because as of now playoffs are a long way out, and there is no guarantee the "playoff types" will be good enough to help the team during the regular season, is that not fair to say?

I disagree. It is pretty clear that certain playing styles and conducive to playoff success whereas others are not. It is similar to saying that certain plays, skills and traits are effective in junior hockey but ineffective at the NHL level.

A player like Brady Tkachuk plays a style that works in the regular season and excels in the playoffs. Players like Mark Stone, Patrice Bergeron and Ryan O'Reilly also fit that model.

I disagree with prioritizing building a team for the regular season first and foremost. The Sens and other organizations have taken this approach and what it leads to is regular season success but mostly failures in the playoffs. Then the organization keeps hunting for missing pieces and making trades until they are forced to start the process all over again. It is far better to prioritize a team that will win in the playoffs. Study the successful teams and the successful players, figure out the common patterns and then draft and develop prospects that strongly compare.

 

[TheDebater]

I disagree. It is pretty clear that certain playing styles and conducive to playoff success whereas others are not. It is similar to saying that certain plays, skills and traits are effective in junior hockey but ineffective at the NHL level.

A player like Brady Tkachuk plays a style that works in the regular season and excels in the playoffs. Players like Mark Stone, Patrice Bergeron and Ryan O'Reilly also fit that model.

I disagree with prioritizing building a team for the regular season first and foremost. The Sens and other organizations have taken this approach and what it leads to is regular season success but mostly failures in the playoffs. Then the organization keeps hunting for missing pieces and making trades until they are forced to start the process all over again. It is far better to prioritize a team that will win in the playoffs. Study the successful teams and the successful players, figure out the common patterns and then draft and develop prospects that strongly compare.

From a purely selfish fanatic standpoint, I enjoyed watching the Senators way way more from 2000-2009, where they had great regular season success and minimal playoff success (not winning a cup). As opposed to the most recent decade from 2010-2019, where the team was at most times very difficult to watch most nights because of how bad they played most games.

Being a fan of a team that consistently misses the playoffs is way more difficult to enjoy than a team that has a good regular season followed by an early playoff exit, at least in my current opinion having watched this team be the joke of the league for the past 4-5 years.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Hard to get into a game getting that kind of ice time. I've heard he's bigger and faster but not getting much of a chance to use it.
Could be a steal at 28

 

[cj19]

Would Ottawa trade it's 3rd pick to NJD for their 7th and 18th picks. I was thinking ottawa would still get excellent players at picks 5 & 7 i.e. Rossi & Sanderson and with the 18 pick they could gamble on someone like Hendrix Lapierre since they would have 4 first round picks.

 

[Gil Gunderson]

Would Ottawa trade it's 3rd pick to NJD for their 7th and 18th picks. I was thinking ottawa would still get excellent players at picks 5 & 7 i.e. Rossi & Sanderson and with the 18 pick they could gamble on someone like Hendrix Lapierre since they would have 4 first round picks.

Nah

 

[Masked]

Would Ottawa trade it's 3rd pick to NJD for their 7th and 18th picks. I was thinking ottawa would still get excellent players at picks 5 & 7 i.e. Rossi & Sanderson and with the 18 pick they could gamble on someone like Hendrix Lapierre since they would have 4 first round picks.

Or Ottawa could just take one of the top 3 players in the draft instead. Maybe they'd do it for the 5th instead of the 3rd but there's no way they'd give up quality for quantity with the third overall.

 

[Emerica]

Or Ottawa could just take one of the top 3 players in the draft instead. Maybe they'd do it for the 5th instead of the 3rd but there's no way they'd give up quality for quantity with the third overall.

This. We have a boatload of picks already. I know it's not the way Pierre likes to do his deals but we need to start focusing on quality over quantity at some point. There is a clear top-3 and we are lucky enough as-is to get one of them. No way we drop from Stutzle/Byfield to Rossi/Sanderson/Holtz just to pick up Lapierre.

 

[DJB]

Would Ottawa trade it's 3rd pick to NJD for their 7th and 18th picks. I was thinking ottawa would still get excellent players at picks 5 & 7 i.e. Rossi & Sanderson and with the 18 pick they could gamble on someone like Hendrix Lapierre since they would have 4 first round picks.

Are you the same poster that suggested the Sens trade 5 for the Leafs pick and a prospect?

If so please stop.

We aren't moving 3 or 5 and certainly not moving back.

Move along

 

[Tkachuckycheese]

This guy is just going to be a killer goalie if he pans out for a team. He really does play like Price.

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

Would Ottawa trade it's 3rd pick to NJD for their 7th and 18th picks. I was thinking ottawa would still get excellent players at picks 5 & 7 i.e. Rossi & Sanderson and with the 18 pick they could gamble on someone like Hendrix Lapierre since they would have 4 first round picks.

You'd need to offer Hughes +7th overall for Ottawa to give you 3rd overall. And even then I doubt Ottawa makes the deal.

 

[JD1]

From a purely selfish fanatic standpoint, I enjoyed watching the Senators way way more from 2000-2009, where they had great regular season success and minimal playoff success (not winning a cup). As opposed to the most recent decade from 2010-2019, where the team was at most times very difficult to watch most nights because of how bad they played most games.

Being a fan of a team that consistently misses the playoffs is way more difficult to enjoy than a team that has a good regular season followed by an early playoff exit, at least in my current opinion having watched this team be the joke of the league for the past 4-5 years.

I think you're comparing apples and oranges

The previous decade saw a lost season and the implementation of a salary cap designed to achieve parity. We got squeezed by that cap, possibly more so than any other team. Starting in 2000, we had a core of young players that essentially enabled us to be successful throughout that decade.

This decade, look what's been successful. A few teams with maximum suckage last decade that enabled them to acquire this decade's top players and then they retained them.

If you look at the winners this decade, apart from Chara, the top players on all those teams were drafted last decade as a direct result of those teams sucking.

Chicago...Toews, Kane, Keith
LA....Kopitar and Doughty
Pitts....Crosby and Malkin
Wash....Ovy and Backstrom

Chara is the only player acquired via free agency and he's a genetic freak that is still a valuable player at 43

Of course we did better last decade. It was a different cycle for us. This decade's best teams were rock bottom in the early 2000s. This decade we fell into that middling trap of playoff bubbledom, never good enough to be consistently successful never bad enough to bottom out until they choose to bottom out, financially motivated or not.

Here's to hoping that the 2020s results in a decade of sustained competitiveness

 

[BondraTime]

I think you're comparing apples and oranges

The previous decade saw a lost season and the implementation of a salary cap designed to achieve parity. We got squeezed by that cap, possibly more so than any other team. Starting in 2000, we had a core of young players that essentially enabled us to be successful throughout that decade.

This decade, look what's been successful. A few teams with maximum suckage last decade that enabled them to acquire this decade's top players and then they retained them.

If you look at the winners this decade, apart from Chara, the top players on all those teams were drafted last decade as a direct result of those teams sucking.

Chicago...Toews, Kane, Keith
LA....Kopitar and Doughty
Pitts....Crosby and Malkin
Wash....Ovy and Backstrom

Chara is the only player acquired via free agency and he's a genetic freak that is still a valuable player at 43

Of course we did better last decade. It was a different cycle for us. This decade's best teams were rock bottom in the early 2000s. This decade we fell into that middling trap of playoff bubbledom, never good enough to be consistently successful never bad enough to bottom out until they choose to bottom out, financially motivated or not.

Here's to hoping that the 2020s results in a decade of sustained competitiveness

O’Rielly won the Conn Smyth with the Blues as well

 

[JD1]

O’Rielly won the Conn Smyth with the Blues as well

Yep. Missed that. He's an odd duck in that he's a top tier player built for the playoffs type player that's on his 2rd team.

 

[cj19]

my picks (lot of forwards because next years draft is a great year for D... Theses players are all gritty playoff type players you need to win a cup..

3 Tim Stutzle
5. Marco Rossi
28 Ridley Crieg
33 Ozzy Wiesblatt
51& 58 Justin Barron (trade 51 & 58 to move up in 2nd round take Barron)
60 Luke Tuch

 

[BondraTime]

O’Rielly won the Conn Smyth with the Blues as well

Carter, Williams and Gaborik were 2nd, 3rd and 4th in scoring for the Kings I’m their Cup run as well.

 

[aragorn]

I wonder if the number of trades are going to be affected if the draft is held virtually? We used to see GMs getting together in small groups talking, then one would take another by the arm & have a sidebar. That used to be fun to see & drive speculation, but won't be happening with a virtual draft.

Do people think there could be less trades because of this, the same or maybe even more? With today's electronics & platforms like Zoom it may not matter, but it should certainly be a little different.

 

[aragorn]

Yep. Missed that. He's an odd duck in that he's a top tier player built for the playoffs type player that's on his 3rd team.

O'Reilly has been a really good player for yrs now who should be given much more credit for his complete game. The guy is great at faceoffs, steals & consistently putting up pts. He's not quite as physical as I like, but I would definitely have him on my team & was hoping Ottawa would have traded for him a few times.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

 

[TheDebater]

Interesting but we have seen a few rankings now that place Stutzle outside the top 3. This guy has:

1. LAF
2. BYF
3. RAY
4. PERF
5. STU

He was pretty high on Raymond as most are so I think if we go with Stutzle at 3, that there is no way Detroit passes on Raymond.

 

[Pavlikovsky]

Would Ottawa trade it's 3rd pick to NJD for their 7th and 18th picks. I was thinking ottawa would still get excellent players at picks 5 & 7 i.e. Rossi & Sanderson and with the 18 pick they could gamble on someone like Hendrix Lapierre since they would have 4 first round picks.

Would not do that, but I'd do 5th + 28th + 71st for 7th +18th + 84th they move up 2x we move up once but the 18 range has way better prospects than the 28 range.

The quality between 5 and 7 is roughly the same it's more about the privilege to chose who you get because you still get a shot at Raymond, Rossi, Drysdale, but with Raymond looking good if he is there at 5 I don't know if I would really want to move the 5th.

 

[Pavlikovsky]

Interesting but we have seen a few rankings now that place Stutzle outside the top 3. This guy has:

1. LAF
2. BYF
3. RAY
4. PERF
5. STU

He was pretty high on Raymond as most are so I think if we go with Stutzle at 3, that there is no way Detroit passes on Raymond.

I don't think you try to play 4D chess this year just pick the Stutzle and whoever is there at 5, I'm assuming the rumors about DET liking Perfetti has a lot to do with them not thinking either of Stutzle or Byfield falling to them, I think there is a little bias with Raymond because he is playing atm and Stutzle is not.

 

[topshelf15]

I don't think you try to play 4D chess this year just pick the Stutzle and whoever is there at 5, I'm assuming the rumors about DET liking Perfetti has a lot to do with them not thinking either of Stutzle or Byfield falling to them, I think there is a little bias with Raymond because he is playing atm and Stutzle is not.

Yeah ,if PD is thinking on not drafting Stutzle at 3 then he needs to get something nice ...Because that kid looks dynamite

 

[FormentonTheFuture]

Interesting but we have seen a few rankings now that place Stutzle outside the top 3. This guy has:

1. LAF
2. BYF
3. RAY
4. PERF
5. STU

He was pretty high on Raymond as most are so I think if we go with Stutzle at 3, that there is no way Detroit passes on Raymond.

It’s called groupthink and recency bias. Any Joe Schmo can write a blog and put out rankings. At the end of the day there are only a select few rankings I’d actually take seriously.

 

[FormentonTheFuture]

I don't think you try to play 4D chess this year just pick the Stutzle and whoever is there at 5, I'm assuming the rumors about DET liking Perfetti has a lot to do with them not thinking either of Stutzle or Byfield falling to them, I think there is a little bias with Raymond because he is playing atm and Stutzle is not.

100%. The top 3 is set in stone in this draft