NHL Entry Draft 2020 NHL Draft Discussion - PART XIII [We got 3-5]

[Ouroboros]

Holtz/Rossi outside of a top 12 would be pretty shocking. I'm not too high on draft analytics but if you're a team willing to pass on a Rossi with his season for Schneider, Guhle or Lundell then you're overthinking it. Even if he's a year older his stats/total package jump off the page.

Holtz is 9th on McKenzie's consolidated list, so I think it's fairly reasonable to assume that many teams have him in the mid-teens. He's fairly one-dimensional and has been slowly sliding down the rankings all season long. Doesn't check many of the boxes that the Senators have been looking for lately. I'm pretty confident that he goes outside the top-10 on draft night.

We already know that one team has Rossi 18th. There are still plenty of teams that won't draft a guy that small with a high pick, especially when there are also concerns about him being further along in his physical development and among the oldest players in the draft class. I'm not totally convinced that the Senators don't have Rossi in their third tier, but if they do I feel that it's towards the back end of it. I don't see him in the mix at 5.

 

[bert]

Wish list is Stutzle and Raymond as I think we need some studs on offense and we have Chabot Wolanin Brannstrom Thomson JBD etc on defense...

I'd also be happy w Byfield just can't see LA passing on him. To think @bert told me I didnt know anything about hockey when I said that Sharks got worse and could struggle and give us a good pick eh! Pretty exciting a year later... Man I am excited for the draft and the new jerseys.

Hey man if you can predict that teams are going to go from competing for the Stanley Cup's final four to a bottom 5 team on a consistent basis why are you posting on a message board?

Alot of prospect professionals coming out to post on the sens board recently. The Ottawa fanbase is interested!

 

[bert]

Used 2 first rounders the past 2 years on right side D, and traded Stone for a 2017 1st rounder who prefers the right side

That doesnt mean the RD position isnt more of a need though... They have an established top line LD already... They need RD really badly. So i guess i am agreeing with you I just dont really like any of the current organizations options on that side of the puck outside of JBD. Like JBD however he looks to be a solid player but at the nhl level I am not sure what he is. The other two have been really dissapointingin my viewings. Wolanin really has some talent though.

 

[Gil Gunderson]

Doesn't matter what side they play on. Get the better d-man (if they go that route) and trade for the need later.

There’s no guarantee any of our d-man prospects will pan out.

 

[bert]

Doesn't matter what side they play on. Get the better d-man (if they go that route) and trade for the need later.

There’s no guarantee any of our d-man prospects will pan out.

This is how to look at the draft and you trust your scouts.

 

[BondraTime]

That doesnt mean the RD position isnt more of a need though... They have an established top line LD already... They need RD really badly. So i guess i am agreeing with you I just dont really like any of the current organizations options on that side of the puck outside of JBD. Like JBD however he looks to be a solid player but at the nhl level I am not sure what he is. The other two have been really dissapointingin my viewings. Wolanin really has some talent though.

Yeah, Wolanin is the only “legit” guy we have in our system on the left side, though I do think Tychonik gets back to relevance this year.

I am not a fan of Thomson either, though I assume the team sees him in a better light than me (and they have forgotten more than I know about hockey), and I see Branstrom as a #4 PMD on the 2nd pairing getting 18-20 mins a night.

I do like Guenette as well, and think he can be a good 3rd pairing guy who plays the type of game well suited for those minutes.

Regardless, #3 and #5 aren’t going to be used to fill what position we feel we need guys, they will take who they think will have the most impact at the NHL level regardless of position, and barring a gross reach or taking a goalie, I will give them the benefit of the doubt with the pick.

 

[Tuna99]

Yeah, Wolanin is the only “legit” guy we have in our system on the left side, though I do think Tychonik gets back to relevance this year.

I am not a fan of Thomson either, though I assume the team sees him in a better light than me (and they have forgotten more than I know about hockey), and I see Branstrom as a #4 PMD on the 2nd pairing getting 18-20 mins a night.

I do like Guenette as well, and think he can be a good 3rd pairing guy who plays the type of game well suited for those minutes.

Regardless, #3 and #5 aren’t going to be used to fill what position we feel we need guys, they will take who they think will have the most impact at the NHL level regardless of position, and barring a gross reach or taking a goalie, I will give them the benefit of the doubt with the pick.

whatever positions we draft at #3 and #5 will be positions of strength going forward to our he team. They take Stuz and Raymond our C and RW depth will be SC worthy - they take Byfield and Drysdale our C and RD depth is SC worthy.

For the record I like Thomson: his physical play at the WJC was great. Seems lime a steady player who can play the game a bunch of different ways.

 

[JD1]

I like the McDonough comparison for Sanderson, but I think he could be more of an offensive force than McDonough was. And since he plays the same side as Chabot I doubt he gets 1st pairing PP time, but he should get plenty of 2nd pairing PP time. As well he should get first pairing PK time & get plenty of 5 on 5 ice time.

I don't see Drysdale as an example get much PK time in the NHL, but more PP time & less time 5 on 5 than Sanderson who IMO can play in every situation in the NHL against most lines. I think he would be a great pick for Ottawa & fill a need on this defence & be a very good all around 200' defenceman who can play in all situations in all kinds of physical or speed games.

There are some recent trends in the NHL of very little 2 PP time for some roles. PP time is easy time. We might well see Chabot play off wing LHD on PP 1 and the only D on PP 2

 

[BondraTime]

Sens go to the guys rated highly prior to entering the Q quite often, have taken a guy going in the top 25 in the Q draft 7 times since 2013 (1 for OHL and 1 for WHL in that time frame). They begin to like these guys well before their draft year; and are able to get some of these guys later (Perron, Mandolese, Guenette).

Sens have De Blois on staff who was in charge of the Q drafts for Saint John and Shawinigan, and has been overseeing these guys since they were 15, along with Mann who frequents the Q, especially Maritimes being based out of New Brunswick and having a 16 year old playing midget and Q hockey.

Would be surprised to not have at least 1 more added to that list after this draft.

 

[TheDebater]

I hate to sound hyperbolic but this draft could end up being one of the most impactful in Senators history, due to how divisive it has been amongst Sens fans (and even experts).

No matter who we select at #5, if that player does not end up long term as the best player selected from that 5-12 range of the first round, there is going to be huge backlash from a large portion of the fanbase.

If that happens I expect a lot of comments like "I knew we should have drafted ______ instead of ______ at #5", especially if the players selected at #6 and/or #7 end up better than our #5 selection.

I am thinking that the only player we can select at #5 and satisfy the majority of fans whether he busts or not is probably Lucas Raymond.

 

[ijif]

Raymond is playing right now. The game just started.

 

[bert]

I hate to sound hyperbolic but this draft could end up being one of the most impactful in Senators history, due to how divisive it has been amongst Sens fans (and even experts).

No matter who we select at #5, if that player does not end up long term as the best player selected from that 5-12 range of the first round, there is going to be huge backlash from a large portion of the fanbase.

If that happens I expect a lot of comments like "I knew we should have drafted ______ instead of ______ at #5", especially if the players selected at #6 and/or #7 end up better than our #5 selection.

I am thinking that the only player we can select at #5 and satisfy the majority of fans whether he busts or not is probably Lucas Raymond.

Thats why I think theyre gonna take Drysdale he is the safest player.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

DraftSim Bob's Rankings
3. Byfield
5. Raymond
28. Gunler
33. Weisblatt
51. Kleven
58. Groshev
59. Coe
63. Pytlik
70. Robins
94. Kubicek
154 Phillips
157 Rhinehart
180 Pederson

 

[FormentonTheFuture]

I hate to sound hyperbolic but this draft could end up being one of the most impactful in Senators history, due to how divisive it has been amongst Sens fans (and even experts).

No matter who we select at #5, if that player does not end up long term as the best player selected from that 5-12 range of the first round, there is going to be huge backlash from a large portion of the fanbase.

If that happens I expect a lot of comments like "I knew we should have drafted ______ instead of ______ at #5", especially if the players selected at #6 and/or #7 end up better than our #5 selection.

I am thinking that the only player we can select at #5 and satisfy the majority of fans whether he busts or not is probably Lucas Raymond.

I don't get this thinking. Why does the player have to be the BEST out of all those players? The draft is not an exact science. If the player becomes a good, high impact player, than who cares what happened after he was picked? A player busting is a different story.

And I know what you mean though. Lots of people are irrational when it comes to the draft and looking at players picked afterwards.

 

[DJB]

I don't get this thinking. Why does the player have to be the BEST out of all those players? The draft is not an exact science. If the player becomes a good, high impact player, than who cares what happened after he was picked? A player busting is a different story.

And I know what you mean though. Lots of people are irrational when it comes to the draft and looking at players picked afterwards.

When you say BPA it means who will be the best player once they have reached their peak maturity or prime.

I can argue Rossi is > Raymond right now but see Raymond as the better player in the NHL.

 

[TheDebater]

I don't get this thinking. Why does the player have to be the BEST out of all those players? The draft is not an exact science. If the player becomes a good, high impact player, than who cares what happened after he was picked? A player busting is a different story.

And I know what you mean though. Lots of people are irrational when it comes to the draft and looking at players picked afterwards.

I agree, to an extent I suppose, because I am of the mentality that even a player selected that does not "bust" but is not an impactful player can still be considered a bad pick, if other players immediately selected after him are much more impactful to their teams.

And keep in mind that we are talking about a top 10 pick, not a later 20-30 pick where grabbing a "star" player is more luck than anything.

For example in 2014, Calgary selecting #3 Sam Bennett and Vancouver selecting #6 Jake Virtanen are in a bubble "good NHL players" and not necessarily "busts" but in hindsight were poor choices when William Nylander and Nikolaj Ehlers were still available.

In 2011, New Jersey selects #4 Adam Larsson and Islanders select #5 Ryan Strome, "bad picks"?? Certainly not at the time, probably even considered the BPA, but in hindsight, Zibanejad (6), Scheifle (7), Couturier (8) went right after those two and all three are arguably the better players.

Will we face a similar situation this year? If Detroit selects Perfetti, and we select Sanderson, will Raymond, Rossi and Drysdale end up the better players long term? I would certainly hope not, otherwise we have made a bad pick.

 

[FormentonTheFuture]

When you say BPA it means who will be the best player once they have reached their peak maturity or prime.

I can argue Rossi is > Raymond right now but see Raymond as the better player in the NHL.

That doesn't have anything to do with what I said. They should pick whoever they think will be the best player down the road but if they pick a player who becomes a star, and somebody picked after him becomes a star but a bit better, who cares?

 

[FormentonTheFuture]

I agree, to an extent I suppose, because I am of the mentality that even a player selected that does not "bust" but is not an impactful player can still be considered a bad pick, if other players immediately selected after him are much more impactful to their teams.

And keep in mind that we are talking about a top 10 pick, not a later 20-30 pick where grabbing a "star" player is more luck than anything.

For example in 2014, Calgary selecting #3 Sam Bennett and Vancouver selecting #6 Jake Virtanen are in a bubble "good NHL players" and not necessarily "busts" but in hindsight were poor choices when William Nylander and Nikolaj Ehlers were still available.

In 2011, New Jersey selects #4 Adam Larsson and Islanders select #5 Ryan Strome, "bad picks"?? Certainly not at the time, probably even considered the BPA, but in hindsight, Zibanejad (6), Scheifle (7), Couturier (8) went right after those two and all three are arguably the better players.

Will we face a similar situation this year? If Detroit selects Perfetti, and we select Sanderson, will Raymond, Rossi and Drysdale end up the better players long term? I would certainly hope not, otherwise we have made a bad pick.

This thinking is different than what you originally posted. You said if they don't end up getting the BEST player out of the players picked in the 5-12 range, then fans will riot. Like I said, I agree that the player busting or becoming average would be a bad thing, but if we end up with a star, high impact player, then it doesn't matter to me if there were better players picked after him. It's like Tkachuk vs Hughes right now.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Raymond is playing right now. The game just started.

Raymond just scored on a nice wrist shot from the dot on his off wing on the PP. Very good poise, puck control. I'm watching the game.
Didn't take long for the highlight to hit twitter


Torgersson also playing for Frolunda

 

[TheDebater]

This thinking is different than what you originally posted. You said if they don't end up getting the BEST player out of the players picked in the 5-12 range, then fans will riot. Like I said, I agree that the player busting or becoming average would be a bad thing, but if we end up with a star, high impact player, then it doesn't matter to me if there were better players picked after him. It's like Tkachuk vs Hughes right now.

True, that is different, but it also depends on the level of stardom, the individual awards a player wins (if any) and the player's impact on their teams overall success.

I would not be upset if our pick plays a part in us making some deep playoff runs and maybe another cup final appearance, regardless of individual awards, but you can bet some fans will be irritated to say the least if any of the 6-10 picks end up scoring more goals/points.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Other Draft eligibles playing today

 

[Rodzilla]

Hey man if you can predict that teams are going to go from competing for the Stanley Cup's final four to a bottom 5 team on a consistent basis why are you posting on a message board?

Alot of prospect professionals coming out to post on the sens board recently. The Ottawa fanbase is interested!

Exactly the type of arrogant replies I had from you the last time which is why it’s good to put it back in the face of hockey experts as yourself. Was kinda clear for San Jose but hey what do I know!

Anyway, carry on!

Back on topic, lots of talk about Sanderson at 5, thoughts ?

Really hope they go w 2 fwds.

 

[foggyvisor]

Raymond just scored on a nice wrist shot from the dot on his off wing on the PP. Very good poise, puck control. I'm watching the game.
Didn't take long for the highlight to hit twitter


Torgersson also playing for Frolunda

Some high IQ right there. Fakes the pass to the point, opens a shooting lane, uses it, scores.

 

[ijif]

Raymond just scored on a nice wrist shot from the dot on his off wing on the PP. Very good poise, puck control. I'm watching the game.
Didn't take long for the highlight to hit twitter


Torgersson also playing for Frolunda

Yeah, I am watching the game, and I'll probably watch the Lulea game after. I was hoping he was going to shoot that puck! Very high IQ play, as others have seemingly mentioned. Also, as you have mentioned, a bunch of DY players are playing, so it's good hockey to watch.

 

[Rodzilla]

Yeah, Wolanin is the only “legit” guy we have in our system on the left side, though I do think Tychonik gets back to relevance this year.

I am not a fan of Thomson either, though I assume the team sees him in a better light than me (and they have forgotten more than I know about hockey), and I see Branstrom as a #4 PMD on the 2nd pairing getting 18-20 mins a night.

I do like Guenette as well, and think he can be a good 3rd pairing guy who plays the type of game well suited for those minutes.

Regardless, #3 and #5 aren’t going to be used to fill what position we feel we need guys, they will take who they think will have the most impact at the NHL level regardless of position, and barring a gross reach or taking a goalie, I will give them the benefit of the doubt with the pick.

I’m curious you like Guenette?

Saw a lot of him in the Q wasnt a fan at all. Rough on defense had terrible numbers although I agree Foreurs arent the greatest team last few years Id be surprised to see him in the NHL. Curious about your view