NHL Entry Draft 2020 NHL Draft Discussion - Part IX

[BondraTime]

It's one of a few and Button is a joke.

Well here's his ranking from 8 more organizations from September/October/November 2019:
Sportsnet not in top 30
NHL.com 18th
The Hockey writers 24th
Prospect pipeline 25th
Dobber Prospects 25th
Draft analyst 25th
Scouching Not in top 70
Hockey News 22nd

It's the only list with input from real scouts, those examples are jokes compared to McKenzie's

 

[DueDiligence]

I'd take the ranking from actual NHL scouts over online pub's any day

The same group had Stutzle at 14. Now he is way higher, I guess the scouts were wrong on him. They also had Lapierre at 7 and now he is out of everyone's top 20.

 

[BondraTime]

The same group had Stutzle at 14. Now he is way higher, I guess the scouts were wrong on him.

Yes, because he jumped up the lists...as happens with dozens of players every year

What does that have to do with, anything?

It shows where actual NHL scouts viewed him prior to the season, what this whole conversation is about, that he was viewed as a guy around 15th.

 

[DueDiligence]

Yes, because he jumped up the lists...as happens with dozens of players every year

What does that have to do with, anything?

It shows where actual NHL scouts viewed him prior to the season, what this whole conversation is about, that he was viewed as a guy around 15th.

I point that out because some of those so called "online pubs" had him ranked much higher and they might be better at ranking talent than some team's scouts. Scouts make mistakes all the time and the are other legitimate sources out there.

 

[SAK11]

And Button had him 33rd in Jan 2020!

Well here's his ranking from 8 more organizations from September/October/November 2019:
Sportsnet not in top 30
NHL.com 18th
The Hockey writers 24th
Prospect pipeline 25th
Dobber Prospects 25th
Draft analyst 25th
Scouching Not in top 70
Hockey News 22nd

I’ve always used McKenzie’s rankings to try to know which players to keep a close eye on. Sanderson being 16th allowed me to know that with a big year, he could go in the top 15. By January he was in the top 10 and was obviously someone people should’ve taken a hard look at.

I suppose if you’re more into Sportsnet or Scouching, you wouldn’t have thought much of him at all.

 

[BondraTime]

I point that out because some of those so called "online pubs" had him ranked much higher and they might be better at ranking talent than some team's scouts. Scouts make mistakes all the time and the are other legitimate sources out there.

I'll take what NHL scouts view a guy as as pretty easily, we know, first hand with evidence that he was viewed as a guy ~15th at #16 among NHL circles.

No problem with other sources at all, many are useful, if you'd rather use them instead of McKenzie's, more power to you.

 

[DrEasy]

So here's what's going to happen:

- We win the lottery with picks 1 & 2,
- the NHL doesn't like it, so they cancel the playoffs (using COVID as an excuse),
- they redo the lottery with new odds, we get picks 5 & 6
- Montreal and Toronto win the lottery.

 

[JungleBeat]

Sanderson wasn’t one of the guys everyone was following since the start of the season when we knew we would be picking atop the order, myself included, of course some people aren’t going to be happy to hear he’s jumped in front of the guys we were following since last U-18. Laf, Byfield, the Swedes, Perfetti, Rossi, Lundell, Drysdale have all been in the forefront of the minds of Sens fans for over a year, then Stutzle jumps in October. Many have their hearts set on these guys, and for good reason; but aren’t looking at guys outside that grouping.

Sanderson absolutely belongs in the group that could be picked in the top range, but he’s going to receive the most backlash because he’s the only guy that wasn’t in that grouping since the start of the year and is the guy people were paying the least attention to, if any.

I don’t know about all that. There’s more to not wanting Sanderson in the top six than not following or hyping him up at the start of the year. In fact, the non hype at the start of the year isn’t even relevant in my opinion.

If I’m drafting in the top ten I’d much rather get the Werenski, Jones, Rielly, Provorov, Makar, Heisken etc. All those guys had better skill sets and projected to have a higher ceiling than someone like Sanderson. Guys like Brodin and Trouba are great, but the first grouping is what I’d rather have.

 

[Sensenmann]

Chinakhov could be a good option in the later rounds.

 

[BondraTime]

I don’t know about all that. There’s more to not wanting Sanderson in the top six than not following or hyping him up at the start of the year. In fact, the non hype at the start of the year isn’t even relevant in my opinion.

If I’m drafting in the top ten I’d much rather get the Werenski, Jones, Rielly, Provorov, Makar, Heisken etc. All those guys had better skill sets and projected to have a higher ceiling than someone like Sanderson. Guys like Brodin and Trouba are great, but the first grouping is what I’d rather have.

Sure, that’s perfectly acceptable and understandable. I’m talking about people not watching him and having their hearts set on the guys we’ve been tracking for over a year, of which there are many, and not wanting him.

Still selling him quite a bit short in my opinion, but that’s just that, a difference of opinion.

 

[Micklebot]

I don’t know about all that. There’s more to not wanting Sanderson in the top six than not following or hyping him up at the start of the year. In fact, the non hype at the start of the year isn’t even relevant in my opinion.

If I’m drafting in the top ten I’d much rather get the Werenski, Jones, Rielly, Provorov, Makar, Heisken etc. All those guys had better skill sets and projected to have a higher ceiling than someone like Sanderson. Guys like Brodin and Trouba are great, but the first grouping is what I’d rather have.

Personal preference is probably the biggest thing about why some don't see him as a top 6 option. Imo he has the talent to warrant being there depending on what you value. Some had Boqvist ahead of Dobson (like Chicago) or Zadina ahead of Tkachuck.

 

[Samboni]

Wow. If anything, the first round is going to be surprising. We have to remember that the Sens have their own list as well and it could look very different than those that have been discussed so far.

the Sens have taken a few players from the USA in the past few years, so it’s possible that they too have Sanderson ranked in the top 6. Keep an open mind.

 

[JungleBeat]

Personal preference is probably the biggest thing about why some don't see him as a top 6 option. Imo he has the talent to warrant being there depending on what you value. Some had Boqvist ahead of Dobson (like Chicago) or Zadina ahead of Tkachuck.

What do you think he tops out as in the NHL? If it’s a Suter type that’s a big win, a Trouba type would be a let down.

Lundell is a guy I could see dropping and trading up would be a great move. Byfield, Stutzle/Raymond and Lundell. Amazing.

 

[FormentonTheFuture]

I don’t know about all that. There’s more to not wanting Sanderson in the top six than not following or hyping him up at the start of the year. In fact, the non hype at the start of the year isn’t even relevant in my opinion.

If I’m drafting in the top ten I’d much rather get the Werenski, Jones, Rielly, Provorov, Makar, Heisken etc. All those guys had better skill sets and projected to have a higher ceiling than someone like Sanderson. Guys like Brodin and Trouba are great, but the first grouping is what I’d rather have.

His own coach said he might be the best out of the American dmen you mentioned

 

[DueDiligence]

I'll take what NHL scouts view a guy as as pretty easily, we know, first hand with evidence that he was viewed as a guy ~15th at #16 among NHL circles.

No problem with other sources at all, many are useful, if you'd rather use them instead of McKenzie's, more power to you.

It's not about using one or the other , I use them all and reach a consensus on who to look for. None are infallible and many are useful. I'm not the one who dismissed all as unimportant except for the TSN poll.

 

[JungleBeat]

His own coach said he might be the best out of the American dmen you mentioned

Head coach pumping the tires of his top player nothing new.

 

[BondraTime]

It's not about using one or the other , I use them all and reach a consensus on who to look for. None are infallible and many are useful. I'm not the one who dismissed all as unimportant except for the TSN poll.

Sure, again more power to you. One list is a bench mark and the one that carries the most weight, by far. That’s the one I’ll put the weight in.

The same way I like looking at hockeyprospects list, but don’t really put much stock in them having Drysdale 12th while he’s comfortably top 5 in Mckenzies. One has more weight.

 

[JungleBeat]

Stutzle had a big rise from that TSN preseason list. I’m sure nobody here would be disappointed if we draft him.

 

[Micklebot]

What do you think he tops out as in the NHL? If it’s a Suter type that’s a big win, a Trouba type would be a let down.

Lundell is a guy I could see dropping and trading up would be a great move. Byfield, Stutzle/Raymond and Lundell. Amazing.

He reminds me a lot of Redden with better skating. Bouwmeester has been tossed about a lot, that effortless skating with top notch defensive reads, in his Florida days when he was relied more offensively. Suter isn't a bad one either imo.

 

[aragorn]

And I'll counter that, in today's NHL (not the 70s, 80s or 90s) that if you are a poor skater you likely won't make the NHL unless you have elite skills elsewhere. And it doesn't matter how big you are. No skate, no play.

That was always an issue with Crouse (he's not AWFUL in the skating department) and he never had any other elite skills. People fell in love with him because he was big and that's it. His offensive skills screamed 4th liner and they screamed 2-4 round pick. He got picked 11th OA and it was an awful choice with Chabot, Barzal, Boeser, Connor and many other players left on the board.

With todays technologies, expertise & coaching I would expect that all the areas of hockey would improve including skating. We now see figure skating coaches & power skating at development camps & all kinds of drills to work on edge work, power, first step & speed. The game is changing, players are better coached at every aspect of the game & they work harder on their bodies than ever before. Is Tkachuk a great skater? Probably not but it doesn't deter him from getting where he needs to go or it doesn't prevent him from contributing in other ways, lots of other ways to score. Same for Stone & countless other big players who aren't the best skaters but have found other ways to contribute. OV doesn't score a lot of goals with speed.

Having said that, not every team has all skilled fast little players on their roster, there is still a level of intimidation with competitive men who don't want to lose their jobs. There is still fighting in hockey even though they have been talking about ending that for over a decade. There is still some hard hitting involved in hockey & retaliation for hard hits. The last few teams that have won the SC seem to be heavy teams. Every team has some smaller super skilled guys, I'm quite sure Ottawa will have some too, but they can't all be that way or this team will get steamrolled again. Those aren't the players I like & I prefer a bigger tougher team as I have said countless times. There are plenty of big players who are also very skilled & fast (like Byfield) who I prefer & would prefer that the Sens draft. We have different styles that we prefer, that isn't going to change anytime soon.

 

[Micklebot]

Head coach pumping the tires of his top player nothing new.

The associate coach in charge of dmen actually. Speaking about Sanderson vs specifically the other dmen he coached during his tenure.

If you want to dismiss that as pumping tires, more power to you, but this is a bit different than kilrea saying "if you like drew doughty"