Prospect Info: 2019 Draft Talk (Part Deux)

[Gniwder]

If we can’t get someone like Thomson, Korczak, or Bjornfot in the 2nd I might look at the forwards and goalie.

I’d rather take a shot on someone like Warren over Honka in round 2, if I really want an offensive defenseman.

Sounds like Kaski is signing with the Wings and Hronek and Choloski are pretty good in the o-zone. I think the team needs a solid stay at home LD in the second round. You know, the safe pick that everyone hates.

 

[Hen Kolland]

Sounds like Kaski is signing with the Wings and Hronek and Choloski are pretty good in the o-zone. I think the team needs a solid stay at home LD in the second round. You know, the safe pick that everyone hates.

You mean someone with some physicality? Someone with you'd describe as a red ass? Someone like, say Jared McIsaac? Think as long as we address the defense in the second (assuming we don't get lucky with Byram in the first) then it doesn't really matter what style of game they play.

 

[DRW204]

fyi, some moving-up/down transactions summarized

 

[Marky9er]

Sounds like Kaski is signing with the Wings and Hronek and Choloski are pretty good in the o-zone. I think the team needs a solid stay at home LD in the second round. You know, the safe pick that everyone hates.

Sam Bolduc.

 

[Gniwder]

You mean someone with some physicality? Someone with you'd describe as a red ass? Someone like, say Jared McIsaac? Think as long as we address the defense in the second (assuming we don't get lucky with Byram in the first) then it doesn't really matter what style of game they play.

Assuming the team eventually makes the playoffs, they're gonna need crease clearing D-men. I've got high hopes for McIsaac, but I think we need another. Hronek, Kaski, Linstrom, and Cholo aren't really known for their physicality. Bowey usually puts himself out of position when he gets physical.

Considering the Wings have 3 picks in the second round, I'm sure they'll pick at least one if not two D-men.

 

[Hen Kolland]

Assuming the team eventually makes the playoffs, they're gonna need crease clearing D-men. I've got high hopes for McIsaac, but I think we need another. Hronek, Kaski, Linstrom, and Cholo aren't really known for their physicality. Bowey usually puts himself out of position when he gets physical.

Considering the Wings have 3 picks in the second round, I'm sure they'll pick at least one if not two D-men.

I like the McIsaac pick because he's not completely lost in any one area on the ice. A player like Ericsson (when he plays physical) is nice to have, but it really hurts when you get him in the offensive zone and his game is either dump it into the corner or let go a weak wrister from half a foot inside the blue line. Give me someone like Pietrangelo who could handle any role, and I think McIsaac can play in all three zones, even if he only ends up a bottom pairing guy.

 

[DatsyukToZetterberg]

Sounds like Kaski is signing with the Wings and Hronek and Choloski are pretty good in the o-zone. I think the team needs a solid stay at home LD in the second round. You know, the safe pick that everyone hates.

I'd be against that for a number of reasons, the biggest being the bust rate of "Stay-at-home" defenceman. There really is no such thing as a safe pick outside of the top 3, and even then only the 1st overall comes with close to 0 bust potential. Defenceman typically given the moniker of stay-at-home have issues either with their skating, puck moving, vision, or overall decision making so given how the game is progressing I'd rather we stay away from that type of player.

I think someone such as Artemi Knyazev would fit the bill of my "safe" defenceman. He's able to produce points but he also brings enough defensively that if the offence doesn't develop as hoped he would still be able to play in a bottom pairing role.

Some defenceman I'd like to see us target, at least in the 3rd or later in the draft are Justin Bergeron, Jordan Spence, Zachary Jones, Domenick Fensore, Ronnie Attard, and Luke Bast. All are interesting and have some decent upside and all are ranked as 3rd round picks or later, Ronnie Attard is especially interesting imo.

I like the McIsaac pick because he's not completely lost in any one area on the ice. A player like Ericsson (when he plays physical) is nice to have, but it really hurts when you get him in the offensive zone and his game is either dump it into the corner or let go a weak wrister from half a foot inside the blue line. Give me someone like Pietrangelo who could handle any role, and I think McIsaac can play in all three zones, even if he only ends up a bottom pairing guy.

It's also much easier to have a player develop physicality or grit than to develop the other tools such as vision, gap control, hockey IQ, etc.

 

[Ezekial]

E: nm I'm f***ing over tired

 

[Gniwder]

It's also much easier to have a player develop physicality or grit than to develop the other tools such as vision, gap control, hockey IQ, etc.

Totally disagree on that point, you can't take guys like Marchenko or Kindl and expect them to become physical or develop any grit.

I certainly wouldn't pick a player solely based on physicality like G. Smith (yeah I know he's a forward), but I wouldn't be targeting a shifty little D-man either.
​

BTW, I would expect someone projected as a stay at home D in the NHL to put up points in juniors. If they're not playing in a top pair role in juniors, then they aren't worth a 2nd round pick.

 

[ricky0034]

"stay at home defenseman" is usually just a synonym for "gets stuck in his own zone a lot"

 

[NickH8]

Assuming the team eventually makes the playoffs, they're gonna need crease clearing D-men. I've got high hopes for McIsaac, but I think we need another. Hronek, Kaski, Linstrom, and Cholo aren't really known for their physicality. Bowey usually puts himself out of position when he gets physical.

Considering the Wings have 3 picks in the second round, I'm sure they'll pick at least one if not two D-men.

I'd rather just sign one in free agency. The purely defensive defenseman whose game is based on their physicality is usually easy to find in free agency. Guys like McQuaid, Oleksiak, Coburn, Edmonsson, Gudbransson. Easy free agency acquisitions.

 

[Gniwder]

I'd rather just sign one in free agency. The purely defensive defenseman whose game is based on their physicality is usually easy to find in free agency. Guys like McQuaid, Oleksiak, Coburn, Edmonsson, Gudbransson. Easy free agency acquisitions.

I agree they can be acquired in free agency, but at the same time they usually get overpaid for mediocrity. That's how we got stuck with Daley, and he's not even physical. Plus there's no potential upside with 30 year old UFAs.

Look at the roster, and the only guys with grit are Abby (who's lost his) and Bert (who's not very big). I really don't think G. Smith is gonna amount to anything, the team needs some physicality. And like I mentioned before, I would expect anyone picked in the second round to be playing top pair in juniors, so I expect potential upside (i.e. offence) in addition to physicality, where worst case they wind up being 3rd pair stay at home. Certainly wouldn't pick anyone who's ceiling is Ericsson level (unless it's the 7th round, and the very last pick of the draft, lol).

 

[Frk It]

Ben Brinkman is a good all around defenseman who’s a hard-nosed and strong player.

I generally agree that stay at home defenseman are obsolete or easy to fill guys, but I think he has some offensive upside to his game. I’ve heard some NHL teams think highly of him.

Ben Brinkman at eliteprospects.com

Also would add that Regula is a big kid and I don’t think Lindstrom is some finesse player. We also have Kotkansalo.

 

[Henkka]

I agree they can be acquired in free agency, but at the same time they usually get overpaid for mediocrity. That's how we got stuck with Daley, and he's not even physical. Plus there's no potential upside with 30 year old UFAs.

Look at the roster, and the only guys with grit are Abby (who's lost his) and Bert (who's not very big). I really don't think G. Smith is gonna amount to anything, the team needs some physicality. And like I mentioned before, I would expect anyone picked in the second round to be playing top pair in juniors, so I expect potential upside (i.e. offence) in addition to physicality, where worst case they wind up being 3rd pair stay at home. Certainly wouldn't pick anyone who's ceiling is Ericsson level (unless it's the 7th round, and the very last pick of the draft, lol).

Jared McIsaac is tough as nails and will answer for your call. We will hit people to hurt them.

Maybe Yzerman will trade for Lucic and force Holland to retent 50% of his salary. Lucic for 3M would be nice.

 

[obey86]

Jared McIsaac is tough as nails and will answer for your call. We will hit people to hurt them.

Maybe Yzerman will trade for Lucic and force Holland to retent 50% of his salary. Lucic for 3M would be nice.

Not for 4 more seasons it wouldn’t be nice.

 

[Oddbob]

Jared McIsaac is tough as nails and will answer for your call. We will hit people to hurt them.

Maybe Yzerman will trade for Lucic and force Holland to retent 50% of his salary. Lucic for 3M would be nice.

Lucic for free would be terrible. Crappy hockey player, worse guy. He and Marchand are very similar in their stupidity.

 

[Unfriendly Ghost]

I'd like for the Wings to try for a big defenseman. Doesn't have to have monster upside, but someone who can hold down a physical bottom pairing role better than an Ericsson

A physical LD would be perfect.

 

[DatsyukToZetterberg]

Totally disagree on that point, you can't take guys like Marchenko or Kindl and expect them to become physical or develop any grit.

I certainly wouldn't pick a player solely based on physicality like G. Smith (yeah I know he's a forward), but I wouldn't be targeting a shifty little D-man either.
​

BTW, I would expect someone projected as a stay at home D in the NHL to put up points in juniors. If they're not playing in a top pair role in juniors, then they aren't worth a 2nd round pick.

I think we're on the same page for the most part, though I was speaking in a broader sense not with examples in mind. Generally speaking a player's style that they played when they were younger will continue to be their pro style, unless they have to adapt to stay in the pro game. I wouldn't say Marchenko's lack of physicality cost him, it was more so his skating; some players have a harder time changing their game and some never are able to add in the missing pieces.

I think each situation is different but knowing what we know about projecting defenceman, at least the CHL variety, drafting a defenceman with less than 0.5 point per game is setting yourself up for disappointment. The predictive value that comes from Jr. scoring is less reliable for dmen than it is for forwards so it's more likely to see a lower scoring defenceman develop offence when their role expands in their D+X seasons. I think finding the right mix is crucial, but your team should always swing for upside if possible. I mean, imagine if we had drafted Girard at 46 instead of Smith, Girard went 47 for the record.

Girard is the exception to the rule as he is a small dman, but the upside was so high that he should have tipped the scale in his favor. It's why I hope Yzerman isn't afraid to draft some smaller dmen as this draft has 4 or 5 super dynamic defenceman that are all around 5'10 or smaller and they all have high ceilings.

 

[Dotter]

A defenseman went #1 last year, so one went before pick #7.

Surely you knew what I meant?

Yes the future HHOF that is probably going to go on to break many historic defenseman records was picked #1.

But outside of that very rare generational class.... no mortal dmen were picked until #7.

Better?

 

[newfy]

I'd like for the Wings to try for a big defenseman. Doesn't have to have monster upside, but someone who can hold down a physical bottom pairing role better than an Ericsson

A physical LD would be perfect.

The guy you guys discussing a stay at home type should be looking into is Korczak. He can skate, move the puck, be physical and has a bit of offense in him. A more raw McIsaac style of player maybe

 

[Winger98]

Ben Brinkman is a good all around defenseman who’s a hard-nosed and strong player.

I generally agree that stay at home defenseman are obsolete or easy to fill guys, but I think he has some offensive upside to his game. I’ve heard some NHL teams think highly of him.

Ben Brinkman at eliteprospects.com

Also would add that Regula is a big kid and I don’t think Lindstrom is some finesse player. We also have Kotkansalo.

Yeah, I keep thinking I hear people talk about him having some sandpaper to his game.

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

If we can’t get someone like Thomson, Korczak, or Bjornfot in the 2nd I might look at the forwards and goalie.

I’d rather take a shot on someone like Warren over Honka in round 2, if I really want an offensive defenseman.

I like Warren but don't really consider him an offensive defensemen.

 

[Henkka]

Lucic for free would be terrible. Crappy hockey player, worse guy. He and Marchand are very similar in their stupidity.

Funny to see Marchand lifting Stanley Cup at this season. How stupid is that !

They won't differ from Tyler Bertuzzi anyhow (on those stupidity things). And you cheer for him.

 

[Henkka]

I'd like for the Wings to try for a big defenseman. Doesn't have to have monster upside, but someone who can hold down a physical bottom pairing role better than an Ericsson

A physical LD would be perfect.

Just wait for McIsaac.

 

[Oddbob]

Funny to see Marchand lifting Stanley Cup at this season. How stupid is that !

They won't differ from Tyler Bertuzzi anyhow (on those stupidity things). And you cheer for him.

I don't cheer for idiotic actions. Also, who cares if Marchand wins the Cup? Many idiots have won the Stanley Cup. Guys like Chris Pronger, Ulf Samuellson, Derian Hatcher, Milan Lucic and on and on.