2018 U Sports Playoffs/University Cup (Fredericton, NB)

[UNB Bruins Fan]

I think it has already been said that the two Saturday games are once again early, right? I know it’s a SN thing but I so wish they would go back to the afternoon/night game set-up on Saturday instead of having two afternoon games....it’s just not the same atmosphere/energy in the building, especially since UNB might be playing the first game on Saturday. If they went to my preferred set-up they would at least keep the home team in the second/later semi-final should they advance.

 

[Hollywood3]

U-Cup scheduling provides that the host picks their spot. (Usually it's Thursday night.) Their entire bracket goes with them. The Thursday winners play Saturday's early game. The Friday winners play Saturday's later game.

Regarding qualification, U-Sports has always had in incoherent policy on allocating berths at nationals. The "principals" change for every sport. Hockey is uniquely affected because the RSEQ has no men's league. For some reason, they have no problem allowing Ontario teams to claim that berth but won't allow CW or AUS teams a shot.

The other bizarre rule is the one that gives the host conference a berth to a non-host team. UNB is the host and qualified as AUS champ. So why does Acadia get that berth after playing SMU? It used to be that the berth went to the nation-wide next highest non-qualifier. If they have a playoff, why wouldn't Calgary/MRU/York/Concordia be involved?

 

[UNB Bruins Fan]

I know the order of the top 3 seeds are based on those team’s final top 10 ranking....but is the placement of the other 5 teams subject to their place in the final ranking that comes out tomorrow, or is it ultimately the tournament committee who gets final say? Basically, if the top 10 shows X and then Sask does the seeding have to reflect that, or is there some flexibility afforded the committee to flip those two if they desire?

 

[AUS Fan]

Yes and yes. The top 3 seeds (Conference winners) are based on the final rankings. #4 is OUA2. The remaining 4 teams are seeded based on final rankings. The committee can move a team up or down a spot or two to avoid regional match-ups in the opening round.
Here are last week's rankings. UofA and UofS have completed CW finals. SFX and UNB have won AUS semis. Brock and McGill have won OUA semis.
This weeks rankings will reflect: UNB sweep of SFX, ACA win over SMU, CON win over YRK and Queens Cup winner and runner-up (Brock/McGill).
Hard to see any movement this week unless the voters want to really punish SFX for being swept.

Last Week:

1	UNB	24-2-4	3-0*	143 (8)	1
2	Alberta	23-4-1	4-0	142 (7)	2
3	StFX	22-4-4	3-2*	112	5
4	McGill	22-4-2	6-2	106	4
5	Saskatchewan	20-7-1	2-3	93	3
6	Acadia	18-10-2	4-3*	69	6
7	Brock	14-9-5	6-1	59	10
8	Saint Mary’s	18-10-2	2-4*	49	7
9	Concordia	18-7-3	5-3	31	8
10	York	17-10-1	5-3	18	9

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

 

[AUS Fan]

Should McGill win the Queens Cup they should move to 3 and SFX to 4. If Brock wins would they get 54 points to move ahead of SFX?
Regardless of this the seeds should be:
UNB, UofA, OUA1, OUA2, SFX, UofS, ACA, CON.
I see no way to seed UofS ahead of SFX. But, stranger things have happened in seeding.

 

[Prov1X]

Going into the 3rd, Brock is losing 5-1 to McGill, barring a huge upset, the following is how I think that the rankings will end up!

1. UNB
2. Alberta
3. McGill
4. Brock
5. Saskatchewan
6. X
7. Acadia
8. Concordia

Although I don't agree with Brock leaping over both Sask and X, I guess those are the rules, Sask and X is a toss up. Personally, I think X deserves to be #4 then Sask, followed by Brock.

 

[AUS Fan]

Are you mixing Ranking with Seeding?
Brock may move up in ranking by being the OUA#2, but they won't pass SFX as AUS#2.

You appear to have posted the seeding for the U-Cup.

 

[Prov1X]

Are you mixing Ranking with Seeding?
Brock may move up in ranking by being the OUA#2, but they won't pass SFX as AUS#2.

You appear to have posted the seeding for the U-Cup.

Sorry, I am referring to the Ucup seeding.

 

[AUS Fan]

The only question I have with your seeding is how is UofS seeded ahead of SFX?

Edit: McGill 5-1 over Brock.

 

[Prov1X]

The only question I have with your seeding is how is UofS seeded ahead of SFX?

Edit: McGill 5-1 over Brock.

Just a hunch Like I said previously, I believe that X deserves to be #3. This is just how I think it will end up

 

[MiamiHockey]

The question of seeding comes up every year, people get excited about rankings vs seedings, and neglect WHY the UCup is seeded as it is.

The UCup is seeded to avoid having the top two teams in each conference meet before the Finals. Think about that for a minute.

It means that if UNB is seeded 1, then St FX cannot be seeded at 5 or 8.

Similarly, if Alberta is seeded 2, then Sask cannot be seeded at 6 or 7.

Forget about the rankings, and look the Top 2 seedings to figure out the rest.

 

[RED ARMY EAST]

Just a hunch Like I said previously, I believe that X deserves to be #3. This is just how I think it will end up

The host team can dictate when they start, either Thursday or Friday night.
Thursday is a gamble in a single knockout tournament.
If you lose, you kill the gate!

 

[RED ARMY EAST]

As far as rankings go, UNB was first or second all year leading up to the AUS final, which they lost to X and was then seeded 5'th at 2016 Nationals in Halifax.
?????

 

[AUS Fan]

The question of seeding comes up every year, people get excited about rankings vs seedings, and neglect WHY the UCup is seeded as it is.

The UCup is seeded to avoid having the top two teams in each conference meet before the Finals. Think about that for a minute.

It means that if UNB is seeded 1, then St FX cannot be seeded at 5 or 8.

Similarly, if Alberta is seeded 2, then Sask cannot be seeded at 6 or 7.

Forget about the rankings, and look the Top 2 seedings to figure out the rest.

I was aware of the need to avoid a 1st round match-up of the same conference, but did not consider the other reason. Very good point made and understood. I had never seen the seeding explained this way and it makes perfect sense. Thanks for that.

I do take issue with SFX having to face a tougher opponent in order to satisfy this requirement.

 

[AUS Fan]

As far as rankings go, UNB was first or second all year leading up to the AUS final, which they lost to X and was then seeded 5'th at 2016 Nationals in Halifax.
?????

Not a good case to debate. The 1-2-3-4 spots are "allocated" to the 3 Conference winners and OUA2, so there is no way UNB could occupy one of those spots.

 

[UNB Bruins Fan]

The host team can dictate when they start, either Thursday or Friday night.
Thursday is a gamble in a single knockout tournament.
If you lose, you kill the gate!

It is a gamble. I suspect a weaker host (ie/ Lethbridge next year) may opt for the Friday night game for the very reason you stated. However, if you are the host as well as a top contender, I think you need to put yourself in the best position to win the tournament first and foremost.

 

[UNB Bruins Fan]

As far as rankings go, UNB was first or second all year leading up to the AUS final, which they lost to X and was then seeded 5'th at 2016 Nationals in Halifax.
?????

As AUS Fan stated, since UNB did not win the conference each of the last two years the highest they could have been ranked in either tournament was 5th.

 

[SuperSquirrel]

The question of seeding comes up every year, people get excited about rankings vs seedings, and neglect WHY the UCup is seeded as it is.

The UCup is seeded to avoid having the top two teams in each conference meet before the Finals. Think about that for a minute.

It means that if UNB is seeded 1, then St FX cannot be seeded at 5 or 8.

Similarly, if Alberta is seeded 2, then Sask cannot be seeded at 6 or 7.

Forget about the rankings, and look the Top 2 seedings to figure out the rest.

Exactly... and that's why McGill (Queen's Cup winner) won't be in the same pool as Brock and Concordia.

 

[UNB Bruins Fan]

Exactly... and that's why McGill (Queen's Cup winner) won't be in the same pool as Brock and Concordia.

But given the cut-and-dried nature of the OUA runner-ups seed, this isn’t always the case. For example, in 2016 UQTR (OUA Champ) was in the same pool as Western (runner-up).

If the OUA team is #1 then they will always be in with the runner-up since they will be #4.

 

[UNB Bruins Fan]

Apparently the committee is meeting at 1PM so hopefully we know sooner than later. I’m pretty sure last year they said it would be announced at 7 or 8PM or something like that but it was at least a couple hours earlier.

 

[AUS Fan]

But given the cut-and-dried nature of the OUA runner-ups seed, this isn’t always the case. For example, in 2016 UQTR (OUA Champ) was in the same pool as Western (runner-up).

If the OUA team is #1 then they will always be in with the runner-up since they will be #4.

Someone always has to ruin things. The only scenario that doesn't fit. Good observation.

With that caveat, here is my take on the whole seeding thing. Thanks to MiamiHockey and others for their input.

The media people vote each week on the top-10 ranking of CIS teams. The final vote is either today or Monday.
For the U-Cup, the 3 Conference winners are seeded 1-2-3. Ranking will determine the position. The #4 spot goes to the OUA2 (Because the OUA is Actually OUA and RSEQ).
For the U-Cup there are 2 brackets: 1-4-5-8 and 2-3-6-7. These brackets play on the Same Day and the winners play each other. There is no cross-over. The winners on Thursday play early game Saturday semi and Friday winners play late semi.
For the U-Cup, teams are placed in brackets to avoid a 1st round match-up between the same Conference and Also to avoid a Conference champion and runner-up meeting until the finals. For this reason SFX cannot be in the same bracket as UNB. Same with UofA-UofS and MCG-BRK.
UNB has stated they will play Thursday night. IF UNB IS RANKED #1 THIS WEEK, the 1-4-5-8 bracket will play on Thursday and the 2-3-6-7 bracket on Friday.
If UNB is ranked #1, the top 4 seeds will be: UNB, UofA, MCG, BRK.
The remaining 4 teams will be seeded as stated above. SFX cannot be #5 or #8(UNB bracket) or #7 (as they rank above other teams), so will be #6. UofS cannot be #6 or #7 (UofA bracket) or #8 (as they rank above other teams), so will be #5. ACA cannot be #5 or #8 (UNB bracket) so will be #7. And, finally CON will be #8.
So, if UNB is ranked #1 the bottom 4 seeds will be: UofS, SFX, ACA, CON.

Hopefully, I have not missed anything (except for OUA ranked #1).

 

[hockeyinsiderusports]

My predictions for ucup matchup. If anyone thinks host doesn’t get input on seedings is nieve
Unb will avoid aus competition in ucup unless they meet up in Finals

1 unb vs 8 Concordia
2 Alberta vs 7 Acadia
3 McGill vs 6 St Fx
4 Brock vs 5 U of S

 

[RED ARMY EAST]

Not a good case to debate. The 1-2-3-4 spots are "allocated" to the 3 Conference winners and OUA2, so there is no way UNB could occupy one of those spots.

Not looking for a debate, just using this as an example, where a team can go from #1 or #2 in final rankings to a 5'th seed at Nationals.

 

[AUS Fan]

hockeyinsider: That's the way I see it also. Regarding your seeding picks, not your rationale.

 

[AUS Fan]

My predictions for ucup matchup. If anyone thinks host doesn’t get input on seedings is nieve
Unb will avoid aus competition in ucup unless they meet up in Finals

1 unb vs 8 Concordia
2 Alberta vs 7 Acadia
3 McGill vs 6 St Fx
4 Brock vs 5 U of S

I wouldn't say the host gets much input on seeding as the top 4 are predetermined as are the final 4.

I recall 2009 when Lakehead (host) was trying to finagle SMU as #1 seed over UofA so as to avoid the "Pool of Death" with UNB and Alberta. It never happened and LAK went 0-2.