Unsustainable
Seth Jarvis is Elite
You’d have to go back to Scotty Walker.
GDT: 2018 Stanley Cup discussion
- Thread starter HisIceness
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You’d have to go back to Scotty Walker.
AD Skinner
Registered User
HisIceness
This is Hurricanes Hockey
I remember Tim Conboy once inflicted hurt in a fight.
My Special Purpose
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Never underestimate the power of 20 men with massive chips on their shoulders (with a coach literally left at the curb by his previous team).
In my opinion, the Vegas Phenomenon comes down to that. Fleury's a great goalie, no doubt. Marchessault, Karlsson, Smith, Neal, et al, are good players. Gallant is a good coach and McPhee is a good GM. But on talent alone, Vegas is no more talented than Carolina. What we're seeing is a group of men who suffered the ultimate embarrassment (being shipped to an expansion team) and instead of wallowing in self pity, they decided to use their newfound humility to do what it takes to keep coming to the rink and keep getting paid to do it. It's really amazing what you can accomplish when you have no other choice. They basically have 20 role players who each play their role perfectly, with no role being more important than any other and virtually *no* ego. It's a pleasure to watch these guys play and I hope they win it all.
But it is a unique situation. I doubt we'll ever see it again. This had nothing to do with the easing of expansion rules, either. I hate hearing that. Not one single person raised an eyebrow when Columbus sent Karlsson to Vegas along with David Clarkson's rotting corpse to get that contract off their books. Not one single person thought Alex Tuch and Erik Haula was too high a price to pay to save one of Minnesota's young d-men. And nobody forced Florida to send Marchessault to Vegas for their promise to take Reilly Smith and his albatross of a contract. These were trades, not expansion picks. People who claim the NHL made it easier for Vegas to compete are not giving the players enough credit for what they've accomplished -- and still may accomplish.
These players deserve all the credit in the world. More than anything, I wish our players could look at Vegas and see what can happen if you put all the crap aside and be a professional hockey player, with all that entails. Play the game right, try to make a difference every shift, pay the price, don't cheat, take care of yourself, and do your job.
But our guys are too entitled, self-important and pampered. They haven't had to roll up their sleeves and get to work yet. Hopefully that all changes soon.
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- Feb 23, 2014
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This is quite over the top take. Each and every player know (or should know) that their contract is fully transferable to any other NHL team, unless he has reached UFA stage and has had the leverage to demand a No-Movement/No-Trade clause. When there's a Duchene coming up for sale, I bet many guys around the league deal with the passing sobering thoughts about themselves potentially becoming a 2016-17 Avalanche in the process.
Despite not fitting in your team's desirable top 7F + 3D (or alternatively top 8 skaters), they all are pretty damn good as hockey players for having made it to the NHL. It may even have been a clarifying event on that front.
It may even be that many of the players were better than there was room for them to be in their previous team, and suddenly all those blocks are off from front of their tires. Gotta wonder if there are many guys now in the 30 other teams, frustrated over being held back by the coach being in love with some other guy and looking forward to the Seattle expansion.
I agree with most of this. The revisionist history that’s happening now - that the expansion rules allowed them to get a Stanley Cup-quality team, ignores every prediction made by every single person preseason. On paper it’s a miracle they even made the playoffs.
In fact, many who looked at the expansion rules and thought they may have a shot at the playoffs recanted that once they saw their roster. Many thought McPhee and co. completely botched the draft.
But culture is important in hockey teams and any other team. Playing for each other (or even just “something”) makes you a better player than playing because that’s the job and that’s the grind. We saw it in 05-06, a bunch of veterans who’d never won playing for each other. Anyone who watched that season got the sense that to those players, winning the Stanley Cup was the single most important thing in the world. Vegas has a similar feel.
The only thing I’d disagree about with your post Kev is the characterization of the Florida move. Agreed with the others, people were more focused on the picks they received from Columbus and Minnesota, no one was thinking “oh no they had to give up KARLSSON? What a loss.” But even day of, people were questioning what the hell Florida was doing, that was a fleecing and a terrible decision right from the beginning.
Boom Boom Apathy
I am the Professor. Deal with it!
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Yeah, anyone saying today that the expansion rules allowed them to get to this point is clearly a revisionist. Almost everybody was picking them to be dead last. There were comments about how bad their forwards would be, how they had 10 defensemen on the roster, how they botched Shipachyov situation, etc.. etc.. People were calling McPhee an idiot for the moves he made. I do agree with AD that even back then, people were wondering what the heck Florida was doing.
Will be interesting to see how they do next season. Does any potential extra motivation wear off or do players that took huge step forward gain the confidence to do it again?
Will be interesting to see how they do next season. Does any potential extra motivation wear off or do players that took huge step forward gain the confidence to do it again?
Vegas made all the right decisions this year. I thought they would be terrible and the Ship decision was laughable. Wrong, wrong, wrong. Heck I also thought that Winnipeg was going to crush them with the size and skill they bring. 100% all wrong. Watching the WCF they could easily ride this lightning to a Cup.
They have a number of key free agents so we will see what happens. The comparison to the 05-06 Canes feels right. I’d guess they will try to dump gasoline on the fire with a big addition (Karlsson?).
They have a number of key free agents so we will see what happens. The comparison to the 05-06 Canes feels right. I’d guess they will try to dump gasoline on the fire with a big addition (Karlsson?).
Hulkacaniac
You MUST
They're gonna sign Tavares and trade for karlsson
bleedgreen
Registered User
New expansion rules definitely helped? They forced teams to protect guys they normally wouldn’t have, which left more than one team feeling obligated to make a trade to protect the guy they wanted to?
Without the looser rules, these trades probably don’t happen. I’m not trying to take anything away from Vegas, it’s amazing. Their core guys came from trades, and those trades came from the need to protect players that maybe wouldn’t have exposed in the past.
I don’t think it’s taking anything away from this season to say that.
Everyone tried to knock down Florida when they did this. They intentionally went veteran with their expansion draft and it worked, but they still got clowned because that method left them weak in a few years. There will always be someone trying knock down anything that gets held up.
Without the looser rules, these trades probably don’t happen. I’m not trying to take anything away from Vegas, it’s amazing. Their core guys came from trades, and those trades came from the need to protect players that maybe wouldn’t have exposed in the past.
I don’t think it’s taking anything away from this season to say that.
Everyone tried to knock down Florida when they did this. They intentionally went veteran with their expansion draft and it worked, but they still got clowned because that method left them weak in a few years. There will always be someone trying knock down anything that gets held up.
HisIceness
This is Hurricanes Hockey
Well it would seem that Tampa has woken up.
- Feb 23, 2014
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Anyway I love how the Wikipedia article on NHL Expansion Draft 2017 says that Crosby and Malkin were protected for contractual reasons.
2017 NHL Expansion Draft - Wikipedia
2017 NHL Expansion Draft - Wikipedia
My Special Purpose
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Yeah, maybe a little over the top, but my point remains that they were humbled. Perhaps having your team not value you enough to protect you isn't as embarrassing as being sent to the minors on a one-way contract or clearing waivers, but it's up there. As a player, the desire to prove your old team wrong is very strong.
I get this, but I just don't think it was as much of a factor as we're making it out to be. The main motivating factor in both the Florida and Columbus trades was dumping a bad contract, not preventing loss of a player. Minnesota maybe was a victim of too much talent to protect, but Florida *chose* to protect Petrovic and Pysyk over Marchessault, as well as wanting to get out from under Reilly Smith's deal, so I'm not sure how you can argue the cutoff was unfair.
And let's not forget, the Penguins gave the Golden Knights a second-round pick in the 2020 NHL draft to ensure they selected Marc-Andre Fleury (i.e. they had a window to get out from under the $5.75 million he was owed for the next two seasons despite a NMC and they wanted to make sure he was gone). The only other player of any value Pittsburgh exposed was Bryan Rust.
In the end, Florida, Pittsburgh, Columbus and Anaheim *begged* Vegas to take five of the best players on a potential Stanley Cup team. Only Minnesota was backed into a corner by too much talent to expose (Scandella, Dumba, E. Staal), and even then, they were quick to add Alex Tuch to a deal to make sure Haula was the guy chosen.
Winnipeg also had a lot of talent exposed, but traded draft picks to keep Vegas away, so this didn't factor into the Golden Knights' success this season.
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Yes, though I believe the first game against your former team is always a bit special in that way, even if it had been a regular trade in which they had deemed you expendable.
Dishface
Registered Jerk
My Special Purpose
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I also don't think we can underestimate the importance of the team helping the city heal from the massacre outside Mandalay Bay the week before the first game in franchise history. An immediate bond was forged between the team and the city and it's only grown stronger in the past eight months. Honestly, I think it's more likely for an individual to win PowerBall than it is to have the combination of factors that led to Vegas's success this season. I sincerely hope the NHL doesn't overreact by tightening the expansion rules heading into Seattle. The was a one-in-a-million lightning bolt.
Dishface
Registered Jerk
I don't think they will overreact to this success story. Having parity in the league is a good thing. This coming expansion draft, I'm sure teams are gonna think more about who they are gonna protect and trade. Teams arent gonna want a karlsson, smith, or marchessault happen to them.
bleedgreen
Registered User
NHL expansion draft | Blue Jackets work to keep young talent
I get what you’re saying Kev and I’m not really disagreeing. Columbus did want to protect some good players, though they also took advantage of the moment to move a contract.
I get what you’re saying Kev and I’m not really disagreeing. Columbus did want to protect some good players, though they also took advantage of the moment to move a contract.
tarheelhockey
Offside Review Specialist
A Vegas/Tampa final will be unbelievable. Both teams are on fire and throttling strong opponents.
- Feb 23, 2014
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Well wasn't that a crappy hour of hockey outcomes.
Dishface
Registered Jerk
Only one person picked Vegas to win in this poll, I wonder who that was. 
Breakdowns
Meh
Vegas are 12-3 in playoffs- which alternative universe I am living in, how the f*** ?!
