2018 HF Team Boards Mock Draft -- Pick #21

[Juxtaposer]

And Merkeley's upside is third pairing PP specialist.

He's -70 in 2 years. At least he 'improved' from the worst plus/minus in the OHL 2 years ago to 12th worst last year.

That’s just not true. You don’t have to make stuff up just because I insulted your fave.

 

[spintheblackcircle]

That’s just not true. You don’t have to make stuff up just because I insulted your fave.

He's not -70 the last 2 years?

 

[Friday]

Is it normal to be a -70 in jrs? haha

 

[Juxtaposer]

He's not -70 the last 2 years?

That’s not remotely what I was debating and you know it. We’re talking about upside. Merkley has a very high likelihood of busting. But he could be a star.

 

[Lebanezer]

That’s not remotely what I was debating and you know it. We’re talking about upside. Merkley has a very high likelihood of busting. But he could be a star.

Merkley is insanely talented. He’s a righty shot dman, he may bust, but it’s never a bad idea to take a chance on a player with that much talent.

 

[Le Rosbeef]

Merkley is insanely talented. He’s a righty shot dman, he may bust, but it’s never a bad idea to take a chance on a player with that much talent.

In a vacuum, of course.

But keep in mind our GM/Scouting team has only got Timo Meier, Mirco Mueller, Josh Norris and Nik Goldobin to show from the first round in the last 5 NHL drafts. With no 1st rounder next year because of the Kane deal, and only one guaranteed 'top 6 asset' from that group of 4, they simply can't afford a screw up in this year's draft. (By the way, I'm certainly not discounting Norris - we just don't know what we have there yet but he takes a fair amount of stick on these boards at times...)

Wilson/Burke can't afford for Meier to be the only top 6 asset that comes out of a 7 year draft window. Merkley fits the bill with his potential but my head says they haven't got the fortitude to do it...

 

[Groo]

In a vacuum, of course.

But keep in mind our GM/Scouting team has only got Timo Meier, Mirco Mueller, Josh Norris and Nik Goldobin to show from the first round in the last 5 NHL drafts. With no 1st rounder next year because of the Kane deal, and only one guaranteed 'top 6 asset' from that group of 4, they simply can't afford a screw up in this year's draft. (By the way, I'm certainly not discounting Norris - we just don't know what we have there yet but he takes a fair amount of stick on these boards at times...)

Wilson/Burke can't afford for Meier to be the only top 6 asset that comes out of a 7 year draft window. Merkley fits the bill with his potential but my head says they haven't got the fortitude to do it...

Fortitude ?

 

[Lebanezer]

In a vacuum, of course.

But keep in mind our GM/Scouting team has only got Timo Meier, Mirco Mueller, Josh Norris and Nik Goldobin to show from the first round in the last 5 NHL drafts. With no 1st rounder next year because of the Kane deal, and only one guaranteed 'top 6 asset' from that group of 4, they simply can't afford a screw up in this year's draft. (By the way, I'm certainly not discounting Norris - we just don't know what we have there yet but he takes a fair amount of stick on these boards at times...)

Wilson/Burke can't afford for Meier to be the only top 6 asset that comes out of a 7 year draft window. Merkley fits the bill with his potential but my head says they haven't got the fortitude to do it...

There's more than just Meier in the 7 year draft window. Obviously not all the guys will hit, but there's Balcers, Labanc, Blichfeld, Gambrell, Chmelevski and Chekhovich. Unless you're just referring to top round picks. I also think there is no chance in the hell the Sharks take Merkley, but if they pass on guys with really high end skill for guys like Norris/Mueller, then they're essentially wasting their 1st. I'd rather they traded their 1st this year for Noah Hanifin or someone good then waste the pick on a guy who won't be the BPA and won't help the team for a few years.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

There's more than just Meier in the 7 year draft window. Obviously not all the guys will hit, but there's Balcers, Labanc, Blichfeld, Gambrell, Chmelevski and Chekhovich. Unless you're just referring to top round picks. I also think there is no chance in the hell the Sharks take Merkley, but if they pass on guys with really high end skill for guys like Norris/Mueller, then they're essentially wasting their 1st. I'd rather they traded their 1st this year for Noah Hanifin or someone good then waste the pick on a guy who won't be the BPA and won't help the team for a few years.

What would be added to the 1st? I would be surprised to see Carolina trading Hanifin, for a 21st OA pick, that probably has a 25% chance of being a Top4D/Top 6F as the centerpiece.

 

[Lebanezer]

What would be added to the 1st? I would be surprised to see Carolina trading Hanifin, for a 21st OA pick, that probably has a 25% chance of being a Top4D/Top 6F as the centerpiece.

Oh the Sharks would definitely have to add to the pick, I didn't mean straight up . I don't know what the Hurricanes needs are though, so I'm not sure what other pieces it would take, but I certainly believe the two teams could make it work.

 

[Le Rosbeef]

Fortitude ?

It's not a common saying? Fortitude of the testicular variety... I don't know what I can say without getting a ban

There's more than just Meier in the 7 year draft window. Obviously not all the guys will hit, but there's Balcers, Labanc, Blichfeld, Gambrell, Chmelevski and Chekhovich. Unless you're just referring to top round picks. I also think there is no chance in the hell the Sharks take Merkley, but if they pass on guys with really high end skill for guys like Norris/Mueller, then they're essentially wasting their 1st. I'd rather they traded their 1st this year for Noah Hanifin or someone good then waste the pick on a guy who won't be the BPA and won't help the team for a few years.

Yes, I was referencing just 1st rounders. I agree there have been some late picks but they are the exception, not the norm. The 1st rounders should have a much higher 'hit' rate than we've had so far, IMO.

 

[Juxtaposer]

It's not a common saying? Fortitude of the testicular variety... I don't know what I can say without getting a ban

I feel pretty confident you can just say “balls”.

 

[TomasHertlsRooster]

What would be added to the 1st? I would be surprised to see Carolina trading Hanifin, for a 21st OA pick, that probably has a 25% chance of being a Top4D/Top 6F as the centerpiece.

Canes fan stalking our 1st round pick thread

Yeah, that’s an insulting offer for Hanifin. I would offer Meier for Hanifin, but I don’t think that Carolina would take that.

 

[SnarkAttack]

That being said, I wouldn't mind Merkley.

 

[Led Zappa]

In a vacuum, of course.

But keep in mind our GM/Scouting team has only got Timo Meier, Mirco Mueller, Josh Norris and Nik Goldobin to show from the first round in the last 5 NHL drafts. With no 1st rounder next year because of the Kane deal, and only one guaranteed 'top 6 asset' from that group of 4, they simply can't afford a screw up in this year's draft. (By the way, I'm certainly not discounting Norris - we just don't know what we have there yet but he takes a fair amount of stick on these boards at times...)

Wilson/Burke can't afford for Meier to be the only top 6 asset that comes out of a 7 year draft window. Merkley fits the bill with his potential but my head says they haven't got the fortitude to do it...

Why aren't you counting trades?

19 ?? Kane
18 21rst ??
17 19th Norris ??
16 29th Jones
15 9th Meier
14 27th Goldobin
13 18th Mueller

In that 7 year window we'll have Jones, Kane, Timo & 2 unknowns for now. Why does everything around here have to be soooooo bleak.

I'm not saying it's great, but we've gotten 3 very very good starters and 2 unknowns out of 7 and only 1 top 10 pick.

 

[Friday]

Why aren't you counting trades?

19 ?? Kane
18 21rst ??
17 19th Norris ??
16 29th Jones
15 9th Meier
14 27th Goldobin
13 18th Mueller

In that 7 year window we'll have Jones, Kane, Timo & 2 unknowns for now. Why does everything around here have to be soooooo bleak.

I'm not saying it's great, but we've gotten 3 very very good starters and 2 unknowns out of 7 and only 1 top 10 pick.

We want some home runs haha over the doubles

 

[TomasHertlsRooster]

Why aren't you counting trades?

19 ?? Kane
18 21rst ??
17 19th Norris ??
16 29th Jones
15 9th Meier
14 27th Goldobin
13 18th Mueller

In that 7 year window we'll have Jones, Kane, Timo & 2 unknowns for now. Why does everything around here have to be soooooo bleak.

I'm not saying it's great, but we've gotten 3 very very good starters and 2 unknowns out of 7 and only 1 top 10 pick.

Because we’re talking about the scouting team and not Wilson’s trading?

 

[Led Zappa]

Because we’re talking about the scouting team and not Wilson’s trading?

The math don't work. You can't say he failed with 7 picks because he'll only have Meier to show for it by leaving out the information that shows we got great assets out of 3 of those with 2 unknowns. Unless you like being disingenuous.

 

[Maladroit]

Honestly I hope Wilson keeps trading firsts. He gets far more value out of them via trade than via allowing the scouting staff to pick a player.

 

[Lebanezer]

The math don't work. You can't say he failed with 7 picks because he'll only have Meier to show for it by leaving out the information that shows we got great assets out of 3 of those with 2 unknowns. Unless you like being disingenuous.

You’re oversimplifying the issue. The organization has done well when all things are taken into consideration. The scouting staff has not done well though in that time period though. By struggling in the early part of the draft the onus is put on Doug to address issues that may not exist if the prospects selected are either good enough to play in the NHL or at least clearly on their way. In order to address those issues not only does he trade the players that were selected, but he has to add extra assets in those deals which has a trickle down effect. Less picks, less prospects, less flexibility when trying to address other issues. Don’t get me wrong, I am pleased overall with where the Sharks are, but if the scouting can adjust, or at least be held accountable for their failures in the early part of the draft it could be huge for the franchise. The scouts are doing a tremendous job with later picks and UFAs from Europe. Now the early round selection issues need to be fixed. It’s really one of the few flaws with the scouting department, but it’s a glaring one.

 

[Led Zappa]

You’re oversimplifying the issue. The organization has done well when all things are taken into consideration. The scouting staff has not done well though in that time period though. By struggling in the early part of the draft the onus is put on Doug to address issues that may not exist if the prospects selected are either good enough to play in the NHL or at least clearly on their way. In order to address those issues not only does he trade the players that were selected, but he has to add extra assets in those deals which has a trickle down effect. Less picks, less prospects, less flexibility when trying to address other issues. Don’t get me wrong, I am pleased overall with where the Sharks are, but if the scouting can adjust, or at least be held accountable for their failures in the early part of the draft it could be huge for the franchise. The scouts are doing a tremendous job with later picks and UFAs from Europe. Now the early round selection issues need to be fixed. It’s really one of the few flaws with the scouting department, but it’s a glaring one.

I didn't oversimplify. I just didn't expound on it. I just pointed out the exaggeration.

I don't really disagree with much of what you've said, but I don't see Meier as a failure. Goldobin and Mueller I'll give. 2 of the others are unknown and we got 2 other great players playing now with Jones and Kane. So, that's 2 out of 3 draft "failures" (17th and 27th picks) in 7 years not one success in 7 years.

But I do wish Doug would hit a home run too and at 21rst it will need to be. We're overdue.

 

[Lebanezer]

I didn't oversimplify. I just didn't expound on it. I just pointed out the exaggeration.

I don't really disagree with much of what you've said, but I don't see Meier as a failure. Goldobin and Mueller I'll give. 2 of the others are unknown and we got 2 other great players playing now with Jones and Kane. So, that's 2 out of 3 draft "failures" (17th and 27th picks) in 7 years not one success in 7 years.

But I do wish Doug would hit a home run too and at 21rst it will need to be. We're overdue.

Meier isn't a failure. People are still hung up on the other guys that could have been taken. I don't view it terms of failures as other people have. My point is just that if they can adjust their philosophy so that they find better players and more value in the 1st 2 rounds of the draft that could be huge for an organization that does really well in the later rounds.

 

[Juxtaposer]

Is it really impossible to understand that Meier is not a failure as a player but is a failure of a draft pick? Both things can be true! Meier can be an awesome player but he was still an awful draft pick.

 

[TomasHertlsRooster]

Is it really impossible to understand that Meier is not a failure as a player but is a failure of a draft pick? Both things can be true! Meier can be an awesome player but he was still an awful draft pick.

But even that’s going too far. It’s using hyperbole to stretch a point; Meier is not an awful pick at 9th overall. Of the 6 players selected before Meier and the 6 selected after, Meier is 6th best. It wasn’t a terrible pick at all, it was...wait for it...mediocrely good.

The problem is, that is exactly what the Sharks organization wants! That’s what they draft for; above average. Mediocrely good. Meier probably turns out as a solid complimentary 1st line winger. Very similar to Hertl. That’s a good haul from a 9th overall pick. If you think Meier was an awful pick at #9OV, just ask yourself if whoever has it would trade #9OV for Meier at the draft. The answer is probably yes.

It’s almost as if the Sharks don’t even think that they can draft a franchise level player with their picks. I mean, I don’t think that they even thought Meier would be a superstar, did they? The organization saw Meier as a strong, hard working young man that would be able to step into an NHL role soon and be a solid complimentary player. They were totally right about him. But it’s pretty stupid to use a #9OV on a player who you see as that.

Everybody said that Mathew Barzal has #1C potential and San Jose probably passed on him because they interviewed him, asked him why they should draft him, and he said “don’t, and see how that works out for you.” Yeah, it’s worked out real great for us, Mat. We’re desperate for a superstar #1C and our best hope is paying way too much money to your team’s captain who you surpassed in your rookie season.

I think that the philosophy behind Meier was totally wrong; especially at 9OV, but the player was correct. If that makes sense. I just don’t think it’s fair to call him an awful pick.

 

[spintheblackcircle]

Is it really impossible to understand that Meier is not a failure as a player but is a failure of a draft pick? Both things can be true! Meier can be an awesome player but he was still an awful draft pick.

Expect he isn't an awful pick. He is obviously better than 4 of the next 5 players drafted. That's in the 80th percentile, that's a good pick.