Luukkonen had some rough games in the U18 five nations in February, in his defense Finland had a pretty bad team at that tournament, none of the WJC players were there.
2017 NHL Draft Prospects
- Thread starter JFA87-66-99
- Start date
Gigantor The Goalie
Speak for the Goalies
Scouts were probably hoping he'd step up in some way to make up for the fact that no WJC players were there. Still though that is their opinion not mine. I haven't seen him so I don't know where'd I take him.
Thanks for going into so much detail, appreciate the response
Interesting, thanks for the info.
1.Pettersson
2.Patrick
3.Liljegren
4.Hischier
5.Mittlestadt
6.Heiskanen
7. Lipanov
8.Vilardi
9.Glass
10.Andersson
11.Necas
12.Tippett
13.Valimaki
14.Suzuki
15.Makar
16.Tolvanen
17.Hague
18.Morand
19.Kostin
20.Yamamoto
21.Foote
22.Brannstrom
23.Lodnia
24.Popugayev
25.Boqvist
26.Jokiharju
27.Norris
28.Comtois
29.Gadjovich
30.Rasmussen
Thoughts?
2.Patrick
3.Liljegren
4.Hischier
5.Mittlestadt
6.Heiskanen
7. Lipanov
8.Vilardi
9.Glass
10.Andersson
11.Necas
12.Tippett
13.Valimaki
14.Suzuki
15.Makar
16.Tolvanen
17.Hague
18.Morand
19.Kostin
20.Yamamoto
21.Foote
22.Brannstrom
23.Lodnia
24.Popugayev
25.Boqvist
26.Jokiharju
27.Norris
28.Comtois
29.Gadjovich
30.Rasmussen
Thoughts?
AmericanDream
Thank you Elon!
Alot of players from 15-45 are interchangeable and depend on preference of the teams.
Who has elevated their ranking in the 2nd half (considered as the back part of the season AFTER the CHL Top Prospects Game)?
I know we have still the playoffs and the World U-18 where some draft eligibles will play that will influence Final Rankings..but to date which prospects have been risers in the 2nd half and which have been "fallers"?
Personally from guys I have watched you have to be impressed by the continuing improvement of Nick Suzuki and Jonah Gadjovich in Owen Sound ...Suzuki was a mud to late 1st on most charts..now he looks like one of the best values in the draft ...Gadjovich was not on any first rounder list ...but watching his strong play in the back half I think a re-look is in bug order ..
I have not seen many of tge WHL guys play
..but I think Cody Glass was going better in the first half leading g upto Top Prospects Game than any improvement thereafter..Either stalled or regressed but certainly has not cone on big time as some were hoping to see. .
Nolan Patrick sort of failed big time in some important games down the final month ..I think he falls somewhat ..at least a few spots.
Overseas..I think a conensus formed that Erik Brannstrom was rising I the conversation ..I think certain to be first rounder now as early as early 20s to latest at end of first round.
So who are your risers and fallers (with the proviso that playoff performance and for some younger ones who are able to attend the u-18s there is still time to impress and move up the Final Ranking lists. ?
ALSO is there an injury that de-railed tge 3rd half looks at a prospect such that this injured player Might be a steal for sone team if they have the guts to pull the trigger by taking a chance on him ?
I know we have still the playoffs and the World U-18 where some draft eligibles will play that will influence Final Rankings..but to date which prospects have been risers in the 2nd half and which have been "fallers"?
Personally from guys I have watched you have to be impressed by the continuing improvement of Nick Suzuki and Jonah Gadjovich in Owen Sound ...Suzuki was a mud to late 1st on most charts..now he looks like one of the best values in the draft ...Gadjovich was not on any first rounder list ...but watching his strong play in the back half I think a re-look is in bug order ..
I have not seen many of tge WHL guys play
..but I think Cody Glass was going better in the first half leading g upto Top Prospects Game than any improvement thereafter..Either stalled or regressed but certainly has not cone on big time as some were hoping to see. .
Nolan Patrick sort of failed big time in some important games down the final month ..I think he falls somewhat ..at least a few spots.
Overseas..I think a conensus formed that Erik Brannstrom was rising I the conversation ..I think certain to be first rounder now as early as early 20s to latest at end of first round.
So who are your risers and fallers (with the proviso that playoff performance and for some younger ones who are able to attend the u-18s there is still time to impress and move up the Final Ranking lists. ?
ALSO is there an injury that de-railed tge 3rd half looks at a prospect such that this injured player Might be a steal for sone team if they have the guts to pull the trigger by taking a chance on him ?
Pavel Buchnevich
Drury and Laviolette Must Go
Really good. The only big complaint I have is about Brannstrom. You are way too low on him. He should come before Makar.
Killerjas
Registered User
Liljegren at 3?! Too high, should be between 5-7. Lipanov should not be in the top 20. Vilardi in the top 5 and Valimaki in the top 10.
There is no right or wrong when it comes to ranking prospects. Liljegren probably has the highest ceiling in the entire draft, it's not far fetched at all to have him #3.
PuckPoise
Registered User
- May 25, 2011
- 678
- 108
Sweden:
Risers
Brännström: Making SHL debut and some points. Apparently very good at the national team tournament in February.
Lias Andersson: Same thing and a good SHL year decent WJC and been on fire lately.
Olle Eriksson Ek: More solid play with club team and national team. Everyone loving Joel these days won't hurt him either in terms of character and attitude.
Fallers
Liljegren: Mono and not really putting up the points people expected, look no better than last year. Left off WJC.
Vesalainen: Not scoring anywhere and a bad WJC.
Boqvist: At least from before the year when people thought he would be in the first round. Looks good lately with SHL team but I think people expected a bit more at the pro level from this season.
Westerlund: Was all the rave early in the year with Frölunda but now cooling down a lot and playing more with the jr. team and no impressive numbers.
VictorLustig
Registered User
- Feb 8, 2012
- 8,852
- 2,899
Don't think Brännström will go in the 1st round. He's always great in these international tournaments, even at the U20 level. I just think his constant high pace game is too predicteable. He can skate, pass, shoot and position himself on the ice but he only plays with that one gear. He's essentially a better version of the swedish Sebastian Aho and will likely become a very good SHL player but I'm not so sure about his upside as an NHL player. Size is obviously an issue as well, to me he looks smaller than what he's listed as.
tony d
Registered User
uncleben
Global Moderator
Not that it's a ratings bonanza, but the NHL will have it start at 7pm EST. I went to the 2010 Draft in LA and that started at 4pm local time. I went to 2011 in Minnesota and that started at 6pm local time. So I'd expect the draft to start at 6pm local time in Chicago.
Day 2 will start at 10am local time.
Did some spring cleaning and found my ticket for the 2011 1st round.
542365
2018-19 Cup Champs!
- Mar 22, 2012
- 22,327
- 8,702
Not that it's a ratings bonanza, but the NHL will have it start at 7pm EST. I went to the 2010 Draft in LA and that started at 4pm local time. I went to 2011 in Minnesota and that started at 6pm local time. So I'd expect the draft to start at 6pm local time in Chicago.
Day 2 will start at 10am local time.
Did some spring cleaning and found my ticket for the 2011 1st round.
OT I guess, but how was attending the drafts? Was it a cool experience or just meh? I'm considering it attending one in a few years.
I've attended three (2010/11/15) and I've enjoyed the experience each time. It certainly isn't for everybody, but if you're a draft/prospect junky it's a good time. The usual complaint is that it's akin to attending a graduation in that you might only care about a handful of people, but it is a fun atmosphere.
If you can, sit in the lower bowl. In 2011, my friend and I managed to sit adjacent to the players' section. It adds to the dynamic when you're sitting there thinking "Man, I can't believe Brandon Saad is still available" and then you can look ten feet to your right and see Brandon Saad sweating out the picks.
On Day 2, not a ton of people attend and you can have a front row seats for the proceedings. If you're lucky, you can listen in on some trade talks. In 2010, I saw Brian Burke walk from table to table shopping Toronto's 4th round pick. Eventually he worked out a trade with George McPhee and this is when the Capitals took Philip Grubauer.
It's fun to track GMs on the draft floor and see what might be brewing. Leading up to the 2015 Draft, I spent countless hours trying to figure out different scenarios. One I liked was trading spots with Columbus. As the Devils were on the clock, Ray Shero and Columbus GM Jarmo Kekalainen were chatting. Oddly gratifying to think that your armchair GM scenario might actually come to fruition.
There are so many Hall of Famers and notable hockey people at the event. I got to have a quick conversation with Bob McKenzie in 2010. Met Steve Thomas outside the arena while his son was busy taking photos.
Saw Kirill Kabanov get separated from his parents (who didn't have cell phones) and had to convince security to let him back into the arena.
Went to a nearby steakhouse with a buddy and Shea Weber was the next person in line behind us. Charlie Coyle and his family came in soon after.
All the prospects are roaming the area after they've been picked. Fun dynamic to congratulate them and wish them luck. Most of them are happy enough to take a quick photo (this one was with Mackenzie Blackwood).
I might actually prefer Day 2 if only because there are far fewer people attending.
The Stanley Cup will usually be on display and that's a photo opp that never gets old.
And I'm misguided enough to have used the Draft as part of a longer vacation. In 2015, I went to Pittsburgh after the Draft to visit a friend and to catch a Pirates game. To my surprise, the entire Penguins staff was on my flight.
I had brought two jerseys (Guerin and Brodeur) with the hopes of getting them autographed at the Draft. Guerin was totally awesome.
If I were to attend a draft again, I'd probably keep my head on a swivel at the airport that Sunday morning.
CanuckistanFlyerfan
Registered User
- May 10, 2005
- 2,758
- 1,319
I've attended three (2010/11/15) and I've enjoyed the experience each time. It certainly isn't for everybody, but if you're a draft/prospect junky it's a good time. The usual complaint is that it's akin to attending a graduation in that you might only care about a handful of people, but it is a fun atmosphere.
If you can, sit in the lower bowl. In 2011, my friend and I managed to sit adjacent to the players' section. It adds to the dynamic when you're sitting there thinking "Man, I can't believe Brandon Saad is still available" and then you can look ten feet to your right and see Brandon Saad sweating out the picks.
On Day 2, not a ton of people attend and you can have a front row seats for the proceedings. If you're lucky, you can listen in on some trade talks. In 2010, I saw Brian Burke walk from table to table shopping Toronto's 4th round pick. Eventually he worked out a trade with George McPhee and this is when the Capitals took Philip Grubauer.
It's fun to track GMs on the draft floor and see what might be brewing. Leading up to the 2015 Draft, I spent countless hours trying to figure out different scenarios. One I liked was trading spots with Columbus. As the Devils were on the clock, Ray Shero and Columbus GM Jarmo Kekalainen were chatting. Oddly gratifying to think that your armchair GM scenario might actually come to fruition.
There are so many Hall of Famers and notable hockey people at the event. I got to have a quick conversation with Bob McKenzie in 2010. Met Steve Thomas outside the arena while his son was busy taking photos.
Saw Kirill Kabanov get separated from his parents (who didn't have cell phones) and had to convince security to let him back into the arena.
Went to a nearby steakhouse with a buddy and Shea Weber was the next person in line behind us. Charlie Coyle and his family came in soon after.
All the prospects are roaming the area after they've been picked. Fun dynamic to congratulate them and wish them luck. Most of them are happy enough to take a quick photo (this one was with Mackenzie Blackwood).
I might actually prefer Day 2 if only because there are far fewer people attending.
The Stanley Cup will usually be on display and that's a photo opp that never gets old.
And I'm misguided enough to have used the Draft as part of a longer vacation. In 2015, I went to Pittsburgh after the Draft to visit a friend and to catch a Pirates game. To my surprise, the entire Penguins staff was on my flight.
I had brought two jerseys (Guerin and Brodeur) with the hopes of getting them autographed at the Draft. Guerin was totally awesome.
If I were to attend a draft again, I'd probably keep my head on a swivel at the airport that Sunday morning.
That's an awesome post...thanks for sharing. Sounds like you had a great time!
I've only been to OHL drafts. One part I hate is watching the disappointment in players when they drop, or don't get drafted at all. Watching someones dreams slip away is totally uncomfortable.
I remember seeing some disappointed faces from the 2011 Draft. Not sure if the draft being in Minnesota led to more of the local high school kids attending (as opposed to the drafts I went to in LA/Florida). Definitely a sad sight to see a teenager in a suit walking out of the draft without a jersey.
Although I also remember when that draft concluded, there seemed to be a couple scouts who did a mad dash into the stands to talk to undrafted prospects (presumably for a camp invite).
Andreas Ferrari
Dale is the GOAT!!!
The Winnipeg Jets as well.I wonder how many teams(BPA aside) are hoping for a future top 1-3 defenseman?
As a Jet fan I wouldn't mind Chevy flipping the 1st for a young LD.Perhaps to a team in need of a top young center.
tony d
Registered User
Hard to say what position I want Ottawa to address this yr. in Round 1. Maybe a wing giving we traded Dahlen or the always wise BPA.
Jabba The Hutton
Nucks STH
kk87
Registered User
Well Patrick is looking like he gets I jure way too much over his career in recent years..that is both encouraging IF you believe this is an anomaly that will not repeat much in future ..without injuries he might actually have progressed to a higher level than he is when we saw him healthy the last several seasons. ...But it is also discouraging IF you believe the injury history suggests a pattern that will re'occurr a lot in future..Thus he is sort of a big RISK ...If you are lucky ..he will stay mostly healthy and you get the biggest prize..but if you are not lucky ,you may be sorry ..some guys just are injury-prone..There is no certain answer ..so you weigh the risks.
But while he projects to a 1C if he stays healthy ,he is not a valuable as a player who is better defensively and not only also plays PP like Patrick..but can also kill penalties and be a dangerous threat to score doing it..
Hischier does not have the injury problems of a Patrick...is a go to guy for his team..but nevertheless is also not the 200 ft player who also scores and kill pk...you think of him as a top line offensive star...
But now we consider the 3 first liners and draft eligibles for Owen Sound who did not just maintain in the 2nd half..but ELEVATED in both production and impression and all 3 are very versatile..top liners ..PK. .and pp ..200 ft game guys..
I see where Craig Button now has (March 21st list) Suzuki at #10 ..I think he may be tge best of alk the prospects given everything he does.but Button keeps listing him at C ...he plays RW on the line ..The C is Kevin Hancock ..who had more points than Hischier (albeit Hischier missed time for WJHC) and better +/- .in the regular season ..and is also having a terrific playoffs in the Owen Sound sweep of their first series... Yet while Button has moved him up to 80th o his list ,this is still insanely way way too low given his numbers like Hischier and alk the stuff he does including OHL coaches calling him 3rd best defensive forward in the league..again not just maintaining ..but getying better..elevating I the 2nd half.. Everyone knew what Patrick and Hischier were capable of..Nobody knew Hancock would be this good..Ditto for the LW on the Hancock-Suzuki line ...Jonah Gadjovich..again nobody for saw he would produce equal or better than any first line first time draft eligible
.
. Plus his feisty physical style ..Button at least has in top 3rd other round 2 (at #37 on his list)..but again why not a high first given his total proposition ? To me he is along with Hancock worthy of just being only about 5 spots below a Suzuki ..So if Suzuki is a Button #10 ..then to.me Gadjovich and Hancock are at least #15 and#16 worthy..But since I think Suzuki is really #1 best and most certain can't miss of tjis draft ,I guess the other 2 on his line should be #6 and #7 ...You might argue that Petrus Palmu who has also posted big numbers for Owen Sound ..he has the talent to be top ten too..but his smurfy size puts up the big risk question
.so if you want to go RISK you put Patrick and Palmu in the same boat although far different risks..but both have the TALENT ..one also has big size (no concern there) but is injury-prone (RISK)...the other has elite speed and elite skill but is a smurf at 5'7 (thus a RISK) ...but tge "consensus" probably keeps Palmu to late first or into tge 2nd due to his size risk..while Patrick being big is given the benefit of tge doubtnonnhis injury Risk profile and probably goes #1 ..
But if you want certainty and versatile value..you take Suzuki #1 and move up the other 3 on his line because alk 3 have elevated and gotten better as the season progressed and who knows how big the upside now for each of them?The thing us..you can project Suzuki to top line birthplace 2 line as well as Gadjovich as a pro
.Hancock probably as a 2C or 3C depending on situation of the NHL club ..but because he is do versatile as a C ,some coaches may only see him or want to use him as a shutdown C with pk duties..But we see he has offensive ability too..A 200 foot who can slide to any lineup or down and do the job of what is asked.
It may be easier to rate the go to star player of a team..a Patrick (when healthy) or a Hischier ...but when you have 3 guys on a line that emerged as the best line in the CHL
...when they alk got better as a line and individually ad the seadon progressed..and when you consider them as threats both on pp and on PK (Both to kill and to get shorty goals) ..well I think you would agree you need to justify why you would not want to any of these 3 in your top ten ranking .PALMU would be there too if he were not a smurf ..
Meanwhile others have not really elevated ..even saw production pace and play fall or simply just maintain I tge 2nd half.. I think Tha calls for demotion in the rankings not raising..So I think Button has his lists still wrong ..I do not think Cody Glass deserved a raising of rank from what looked like a strong progression to the Top Prospects Game mark of the season but not so great since.
I think you need to reward progression and latest impressions and also play in the tougher arena of the playoffs. .And by all aspects of your game ..not just the points.
But while he projects to a 1C if he stays healthy ,he is not a valuable as a player who is better defensively and not only also plays PP like Patrick..but can also kill penalties and be a dangerous threat to score doing it..
Hischier does not have the injury problems of a Patrick...is a go to guy for his team..but nevertheless is also not the 200 ft player who also scores and kill pk...you think of him as a top line offensive star...
But now we consider the 3 first liners and draft eligibles for Owen Sound who did not just maintain in the 2nd half..but ELEVATED in both production and impression and all 3 are very versatile..top liners ..PK. .and pp ..200 ft game guys..
I see where Craig Button now has (March 21st list) Suzuki at #10 ..I think he may be tge best of alk the prospects given everything he does.but Button keeps listing him at C ...he plays RW on the line ..The C is Kevin Hancock ..who had more points than Hischier (albeit Hischier missed time for WJHC) and better +/- .in the regular season ..and is also having a terrific playoffs in the Owen Sound sweep of their first series... Yet while Button has moved him up to 80th o his list ,this is still insanely way way too low given his numbers like Hischier and alk the stuff he does including OHL coaches calling him 3rd best defensive forward in the league..again not just maintaining ..but getying better..elevating I the 2nd half.. Everyone knew what Patrick and Hischier were capable of..Nobody knew Hancock would be this good..Ditto for the LW on the Hancock-Suzuki line ...Jonah Gadjovich..again nobody for saw he would produce equal or better than any first line first time draft eligible
.
. Plus his feisty physical style ..Button at least has in top 3rd other round 2 (at #37 on his list)..but again why not a high first given his total proposition ? To me he is along with Hancock worthy of just being only about 5 spots below a Suzuki ..So if Suzuki is a Button #10 ..then to.me Gadjovich and Hancock are at least #15 and#16 worthy..But since I think Suzuki is really #1 best and most certain can't miss of tjis draft ,I guess the other 2 on his line should be #6 and #7 ...You might argue that Petrus Palmu who has also posted big numbers for Owen Sound ..he has the talent to be top ten too..but his smurfy size puts up the big risk question
.so if you want to go RISK you put Patrick and Palmu in the same boat although far different risks..but both have the TALENT ..one also has big size (no concern there) but is injury-prone (RISK)...the other has elite speed and elite skill but is a smurf at 5'7 (thus a RISK) ...but tge "consensus" probably keeps Palmu to late first or into tge 2nd due to his size risk..while Patrick being big is given the benefit of tge doubtnonnhis injury Risk profile and probably goes #1 ..
But if you want certainty and versatile value..you take Suzuki #1 and move up the other 3 on his line because alk 3 have elevated and gotten better as the season progressed and who knows how big the upside now for each of them?The thing us..you can project Suzuki to top line birthplace 2 line as well as Gadjovich as a pro
.Hancock probably as a 2C or 3C depending on situation of the NHL club ..but because he is do versatile as a C ,some coaches may only see him or want to use him as a shutdown C with pk duties..But we see he has offensive ability too..A 200 foot who can slide to any lineup or down and do the job of what is asked.
It may be easier to rate the go to star player of a team..a Patrick (when healthy) or a Hischier ...but when you have 3 guys on a line that emerged as the best line in the CHL
...when they alk got better as a line and individually ad the seadon progressed..and when you consider them as threats both on pp and on PK (Both to kill and to get shorty goals) ..well I think you would agree you need to justify why you would not want to any of these 3 in your top ten ranking .PALMU would be there too if he were not a smurf ..
Meanwhile others have not really elevated ..even saw production pace and play fall or simply just maintain I tge 2nd half.. I think Tha calls for demotion in the rankings not raising..So I think Button has his lists still wrong ..I do not think Cody Glass deserved a raising of rank from what looked like a strong progression to the Top Prospects Game mark of the season but not so great since.
I think you need to reward progression and latest impressions and also play in the tougher arena of the playoffs. .And by all aspects of your game ..not just the points.
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