2017 NHL Draft - Part II

[Icebreakers]

Top 2 or bust. Don't want to follow another prospect for 2 plus years in junior plus ahl considering we need help now and are a bottom 3 team in the league.

 

[y2kcanucks]

Top 2 or bust. Don't want to follow another prospect for 2 plus years in junior plus ahl considering we need help now and are a bottom 3 team in the league.

Cale Makar is someone who I think is probably 3 seasons away. He'll probably be in the NCAA for about 2 seasons, then probably 1 more in the AHL with possibly a call-up mid-season. He also needs to work on his strength, which ultimately could determine how far away he is from the NHL after his college years. I think he's the 3rd best prospect in the draft, but definitely not someone I expect will be with the team anytime soon.

Vilardi will likely be back in junior, but I could see him making the team the following year. It'll depend on how much he can improve his skating, and if he can transition his game well enough like Draisaitl did.

Mittelstadt is likely a few years away too, given he's going the NCAA route. More likely to need less time than Makar to jump to the NHL, but I wouldn't be surprised if he spent 2 years in NCAA unless he absolutely dominates his freshman year. But even at that, given he still needs work on the defensive side of the game he may need some time in the AHL too. Will be interesting to see how he develops.

Necas and Pettersson are interesting because if they come over they are eligible to play in the AHL. Both need to work on their strength, and also at least 2-3 years away most likely.

Owen Tippett is someone I can see possibly making the jump as early as next season, though more likely the following year. He has the size and strength, and as a winger his defensive deficiencies aren't as big of a red flag as it would be for Mittelstadt. It'll be interesting to see how he performs in his first pro camp.

 

[JA]

y2k doesn't deal in opinions or perspectives, he only deals in his opinion being absolute authority on truth.

It's like trying to rationally explain a logical fallacy to an extremist.

Y2k seems right about this tho imo

I offered an in-depth analysis of Nolan Patrick's game in Post #868 of this thread. The other poster dismissed my analysis in Post #872, so I asked him to provide an alternative analysis, or at the very least to offer his own personal observations so that we could compare our opinions.

He failed to offer any of his own insight, stating that he had already done so in the past; however, when he was asked to cite that information, he refused to do so. One questions whether he has ever published an analysis of Patrick's game.

Following that, his only approach to this discussion was to attack my credibility rather than offer counterarguments to the points that I made about Patrick's game. When y2kcanucks went on to state that he would trust his own opinion while refusing to discuss the points that I had made about the player, I offered an answer as to why he refused to offer his own personal analysis of the player -- he does not watch these players and has previously admitted that he is incapable of identifying hockey IQ. I highlighted the hypocrisy of his words, but also heeded that he not rely solely on a handful of publications to form the entire scope of his understanding of a player and instead watch the games for himself, as at the very least he would have observations to share.

Having been accused of "making things up about a prospect," I cited the quotations of many other informed individuals who have spoken about this topic (see: [1] [2]) to verify that, no, I have not been making baseless claims about any player -- the basis of my observations is rooted in my personal viewings of the player, which are extensive.

In fact, I concluded by simply asking all of you to watch three games' worth of footage for yourselves. You should all formulate your own personal opinions whenever you can. This debate becomes far more fruitful when multiple individuals can discuss the qualitative details of a player's game and contrast their personal observations.

Here is my analysis of Patrick, post #868:

I prefer Hischier to Patrick.

My greatest issue with Patrick is that he does not drive his line's offense and doesn't make a lot happen on his own; I've also recently noticed a tendency for him to play tentatively without the puck. His actual tools are his best attributes -- he makes crisp, quick, clean passes and doesn't telegraph where he will move the puck. He also has a good, quick release on his shot and handles the puck well. He can lift the puck very swiftly and handles it with a soft touch.

He plays what one would consider to be a "touch and go" type of game where he'll delegate the puck to others who can drive its movement down the ice and forecheck while he moves into position to receive it again. Once he regains possession, he'll look to distribute the puck or take a shot. There is lots of puck movement involved in his game, and he tends not to carry it through traffic; give-and-go plays are quite a routine component of his game. I use "touch and go" as a term to describe his game, as the puck rarely stays on his stick for very long -- he gets the puck, and it is off his stick again quite quickly. That said, he isn't immune to giving the puck away either and sometimes just coughs the puck up with an ill-advised pass.

He has never possessed a true power game, but uses his body well to protect the puck and stand his ground on open ice. His game tends to be somewhat passive, and he doesn't assert enough of a physical presence in spite of his size -- in that sense, his lack of power is reminiscent of Joe Thornton. Thornton is larger and much stronger, but neither uses their size in a particularly aggressive manner on the ice.

In recent viewings, he has played a soft, tentative game. One has to wonder if he is playing not to be injured. This year, he hasn't engaged physically very much and has shied away from contact. What I see this season is what I saw at the Memorial Cup last season. He was never one to hound the puck along the boards or crash and bang to retrieve it, although he could always shield the puck from the opponent with his back turned towards the opposition. This season, he has looked afraid to engage. He prefers to play up high in the offensive zone, with the left half-wall being his favorite location; often, he'll hang up high waiting for his two wingers to forecheck and battle for the puck. This year, it has led to a few games where he has done very little offensively.

He tends not to make things happen on his own, and his lack of increased production this year from last year -- an outcome I predicted -- bodes to the fact that his production is based on the play of his linemates. I see him as a complementary player and not someone who dictates how well his line plays; he could have some good years with talented linemates, but won't shoulder all of the responsibilities of his line's offensive production. His lack of shiftiness also keeps him from being a regular one-on-one threat. His straight-line speed is fair and he has a good burst with his first two steps; he will, on occasion, catch the opponent by surprise and potentially strip the puck away if they aren't careful around him.

Patrick would not be my ideal selection with the first-overall pick.

 

[jeromemorrow]

I offered an in-depth analysis of Nolan Patrick's game in Post #868 of this thread. The other poster dismissed my analysis in Post #872, so I asked him to provide an alternative analysis, or at the very least to offer his own personal observations so that we could compare our opinions.

He failed to offer any of his own insight, stating that he had already done so in the past; however, when he was asked to cite that information, he refused to do so. One questions whether he has ever published an analysis of Patrick's game.

Following that, his only approach to this discussion was to attack my credibility rather than offer counterarguments to the points that I made about Patrick's game. When y2kcanucks went on to state that he would trust his own opinion while refusing to discuss the points that I had made about the player, I offered an answer as to why he refused to offer his own personal analysis of the player -- he does not watch these players and has previously admitted that he is incapable of identifying hockey IQ. I highlighted the hypocrisy of his words, but also heeded that he not rely solely on a handful of publications to form the entire scope of his understanding of a player and instead watch the games for himself, as at the very least he would have observations to share.

Having been accused of "making things up about a prospect," I cited the quotations of many other informed individuals who have spoken about this topic to verify that, no, I have not been making baseless claims about any player -- the basis of my observations is rooted in my personal viewings of the player, which are extensive.

In fact, I concluded by simply asking all of you to watch three games' worth of footage for yourselves. You should all formulate your own personal opinions whenever you can. This debate becomes far more fruitful when multiple correspondents can discuss the qualitative details of a player's game and contrast their personal observations.

Here is my analysis of Patrick, post #868:

Hey.. you and Y2K offer great and in-depth analysis of prospects. I appreciate both of y'all for reals. I learn a lot about the upcoming prospects from this thread. It's fine to have a different set of opinion.

But reading your post #868, Patrick sounds more of what the Canucks need than a Hischier if we're keeping to the same structure of a PMC in the mold of Henrik... He seems like an ideal playmaking C that basically replaces Henrik in 3 years' time and setting up passes to Boeser.

Hischier seems more of an explosive C that creates play on his own.. which I like more of on our personal level. Just not sure how he'll fit into our lineup? Putting him with Goldobin may drown both explosive players?.. Do you think Hischier would fit well with Boeser?... i'm not too familiar with the history of how the chemistry make up of players' skill set should be a part of the discussion. Just thinking out loud... i come in peace!

 

[jeromemorrow]

So how about that Klim Kostin fella?

Ditto this question...

Klim Kostin 6'3 196 lbs... looks intriguing on paper.

And judging by his weight, he seems to fit the "NHL ready" sooner than later mold....

Guys? Your thoughts?

 

[ihaveyuidonttouchme]

So how about that Klim Kostin fella?

only judging from this clip from last yr (i guess 2 seasons ago now?)
seems to have wicked release and heads up play and not just blindly shoots and pray or something in that nature
not sure how his rest of his game looks

now sure how this yr went. this season seemed plagued with injuries?

i'll just compare him to the next Nichuskin and Virtanen and call it a day

 

[Bad News Benning]

Ditto this question...

Klim Kostin 6'3 196 lbs... looks intriguing on paper.

And judging by his weight, he seems to fit the "NHL ready" sooner than later mold....

Guys? Your thoughts?

Too many red flags between injuries and production.

Strikes me as Gurianov 2.0.

I like to see Russia based prospects have some success in the khl if I'm going to take them with a high 1st. Guys like gurianov and kostin are the type of projects I'd like to avoid because a lot of the intrigue is based off their size. The best talent in Russia are the guys who get overlooked because they aren't 6'3 200 lbs. So many good Russian prospects fall through the cracks due to not being physical specimens at the of 17/18.

 

[Canucks LB]

only judging from this clip from last yr (i guess 2 seasons ago now?)
seems to have wicked release and heads up play and not just blindly shoots and pray or something in that nature
not sure how his rest of his game looks

now sure how this yr went. this season seemed plagued with injuries?

i'll just compare him to the next Nichuskin and Virtanen and call it a day

He made my top 10 list. Could be a steal if we get another 15-30 pick

 

[ChicagoBullsFan]

This is a pretty crappy year to have a top 3 draft pick (or 6/7 due to draft lottery and Vegas).

Literally every player in the top 10 - 15 has a question mark.

• Patrick - injuries.
• Hischier - ?? lacks physicality.
• Mittelstadt - big numbers against low quality competition.
• Tippett - can a sniper / winger be a franchise or dominant player?
• Vilardi - a good skater, but lacks speed
• Pettersson - size. He's 6'2" but only 161lb. Can his frame build to a more NHL weight of 180 - 190lb?
• Liljegren - high risk playing style and decision making.
• Tolvanen - see Tippett
• Yamamoto - he's 5'8" tall.
• Makar - explosive defenseman, but poor defensively.
• Glass - has steadily risen up the rankings, but what is his ceiling?
• Necas - he's a bit below the radar in terms of scouting, but in a deep draft would be top 20.
• Kostin - shoulder surgery.
• Andersson - lacks elite offensive skills.
• Hague / Heiskanen - lack eye popping numbers and skating for a player considered in the top 10
• Rasmussen - could be over hyped due to 6'5" frame.

I don't know what expectations you had for Heiskanen when this season ( 2016-2017) started.
But it's really absurd to expect that 17 yrs old A and B junior eligible rookie defenceman dominates and scores ''eye popping numbers'' in Finnish SM liiga.

Where most players are adult grown men's and pro level (NHL / KHL / SHL and NLA) athletes.
Finnish SM liiga isn't highly scoring oriented league like CHL it's very physical and highly defence oriented low scoring men's league.

And that Heiskanen lacks for skating is thickest ******** what i've ever read in this forum.
He doesn't lack for skating. Skating is Heiskanen's best asset and he's smooth skater.

Only lacks what Heiskanen has are defensive awareness and Physicality.

 

[jeromemorrow]

He made my top 10 list. Could be a steal if we get another 15-30 pick

COME ON SAN JOSE SHARKS!! Win the Cup babyyyy!

 

[Hansen]

COME ON SAN JOSE SHARKS!! Win the Cup babyyyy!

Having 4 picks in the top 55 (assuming we get CBJ 2nd and they go deep) would be so huge. Even if this is a weak draft its a chance to stock the cupboards more. 2 1sts in 3 of the last 5 drafts, 2013, 2014, 2017 would be massive.

 

[jeromemorrow]

I don't know what expectations you had for Heiskanen when this season ( 2016-2017) started.
But it's really absurd to expect that 17 yrs old B junior eligible Finnish defenceman dominating and scoring ''eye popping numbers'' in highly defensive oriented Finnish SM liiga where most players are pro levels (NHL / KHL / SHL and NLA) athletes.

And that Heiskanen lacks for skating is thickest ******** what i've ever read in this forum.
Heiskanen doesn't lack for skating. Skating is Heiskanen's best asset and he's smooth skater.

Only lacks what Heiskanen has are defensive awareness and Physicality.

Not sure if the Canucks need another LHS dman.. albeit even if Heiskanen appears to play as a RD. However, a 16-17 yr old playing in a men's league is quite an accomplishment though. Any Finnish prospects as C or RHS dmen to recommend for 1st or even later rounds?

 

[JA]

Hey.. you and Y2K offer great and in-depth analysis of prospects. I appreciate both of y'all for reals. I learn a lot about the upcoming prospects from this thread. It's fine to have a different set of opinion.

But reading your post #868, Patrick sounds more of what the Canucks need than a Hischier if we're keeping to the same structure of a PMC in the mold of Henrik... He seems like an ideal playmaking C that basically replaces Henrik in 3 years' time and setting up passes to Boeser.

Hischier seems more of an explosive C that creates play on his own.. which I like more of on our personal level. Just not sure how he'll fit into our lineup? Putting him with Goldobin may drown both explosive players?.. Do you think Hischier would fit well with Boeser?... i'm not too familiar with the history of how the chemistry make up of players' skill set should be a part of the discussion. Just thinking out loud... i come in peace!

Hi Jerome,

Patrick is the type of player who benefits from having quick linemates who can forecheck and keep possession of the puck with speed and grit; last season, it was Hawryluk and Coulter, while this year Lewis replaced the speed and motor of Hawryluk on that line. Patrick distributes the puck well, so smart linemates will be able to avail themselves to receive his passes and continue the movement of the puck in the offensive zone. If his linemates can put pressure on the opponent deep in the zone and keep possession, then he can position himself to receive the puck again and make a play. Craig Button describes him as having an "economy of effort" to get into a smart position so that he may receive the puck and either distribute a crisp, quick pass across or fire it on net. His game is all about positioning and using his passing ability -- touch and go.

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showpost.php?p=127047407&postcount=928

Button: "Nolan Patrick has a real economy of effort when he plays the game. He is exceptionally smart, understands what's unfolding, and there's not a lot of wasted energy. But when the opportunity arises, he takes full advantage of it and has that quick strike ability. Nico Hischier has a real quiet fire to him. He's got a determination that will not allow himself to be denied. They both have very good skill, they're both very good centers, but those are the two elements that I think stand out for each of the two players."

As far as potential chemistry with current Canucks players, there needs to be someone on that line who can hustle to the puck and forecheck hard, ideally with speed. If Boeser and Patrick are paired together, then their other winger should probably be someone who can skate quite well, get into position to receive outlet passes as well as lead the rush, and work hard down low.

Hischier's speed and tenacity to push the puck through high-traffic areas makes him a player on his line who can forecheck on his own and pull the opposition towards him to open up his linemates; his agility is high-end, and he requires very little space to operate. He is excellent along the boards, and can change direction with ease; this makes it easy for him to fake-out and elude defenders. He hounds the puck and goes into the dirty areas of the ice to create opportunities. Some examples can be seen below:

He is able to create plays at high speed and move along the ice at high speed. That said, he is a sneaky player who also plays a patient, east-west game and can lurk. With the Halifax Mooseheads, he plays with Max Fortier, who is a quick skater that likes to lead the rush; Hischier, thus, slows his pace down to become an open option for Fortier. At the appropriate time, however, he can burst forth to cut off the opposition and create sustained pressure through puck support. Intelligent change of speed is one of his greatest tools. If his line features a speedy puck carrier, he adjusts his own pace and can position himself smartly to be the recipient of a pass or to anticipate where the puck will be next so that he may pressure the opposition.

He is an excellent puck mover, and transitions the puck from zone to zone with ease. He can sneak through holes in the team's defense, and he excels at zone entries.

If paired with Boeser, he can create room by pulling the opposition towards him; they must respect not only his passing and shooting ability, but also his ability to make a move of his own if given enough room. He hounds the puck, forechecks hard, and distributes the puck well. He isn't one who necessarily needs to carry the puck up and can play a conservative game where he trails from behind during the neutral zone transition and sneaks around in anticipation of where he can support the play or catch the opposition off-guard. His use of speed is selective and intelligent, although he can also cover lots of ground very quickly. In defensive situations, Hischier will frequently be the last forward to move up the ice; he may remain deep in his own zone sometimes to help his defencemen until the puck is clearly out. Explosive bursts are used to disrupt and impede the opposition.

 

[PM]

Having 4 picks in the top 55 (assuming we get CBJ 2nd and they go deep) would be so huge. Even if this is a weak draft its a chance to stock the cupboards more. 2 1sts in 3 of the last 5 drafts, 2013, 2014, 2017 would be massive.

If we have that many picks you just know one or two are getting traded for some "now" help. Need to replace Dorsett's gritty veteran leadership from the fourth line and find that highly sought after but impossible to find 20-goal scorer.

 

[Oliewud]

is patrick similar to draistal?

 

[jeromemorrow]

If paired with Boeser, he can create room by pulling the opposition towards him; they must respect not only his passing and shooting ability, but also his ability to make a move of his own if given enough room. He hounds the puck and forechecks hard, so

Man.... i'm salivating over Hischier... but don't want to have such a man crush without the Nucks securing #1 pick first.

 

[y2kcanucks]

is patrick similar to draistal?

No, he's a better skater than Draisaitl. He's more similar to Sam Reinhart (if you're looking for a recent year comparison), though has often been compared to Jonathan Toews and Eric Staal.

 

[polarbearcub]

No, he's a better skater than Draisaitl. He's more similar to Sam Reinhart (if you're looking for a recent year comparison), though has often been compared to Jonathan Toews and Eric Staal.

I compare vilardi to draisaitl

 

[y2kcanucks]

I compare vilardi to draisaitl

Yup, that's a good comparison, though Vilardi isn't as heavy as Draisaitl, both have/had questions around their skating and both are skilled players.

 

[VanJack]

Wow!....Button's mock draft is out....some real shockers....Tippett drops out of the top-10 all the way back to 20th...and Klim Kostin barely hanging on as a first-round selection...Necas is at no. 3 and Makar at no. 5....and Rasmusson now back in the mid-teens....Suzuki cracks the top-10.

Middelstadt holding steady at no. 6....he might be Canucks' guy.

 

[y2kcanucks]

A couple of exciting names to remember for the 2019 draft:

Massimo Rizzo and Jack Hughes

 

[y2kcanucks]

Patrick has done nothing but solidify his spot at the top of our rankings for the 2017 NHL Entry Draft. After missing much of the first half of the season due to injury, Patrick’s game is rounding into form (20 goals and 26 assists in 33 games). He’s showed he has all the attributes and potential to become a top centre at the next level.
Patrick combines high-end sense and feel for the game with considerable skill and size, leaving no doubt that he belongs on the top of the list.

Hischier (38 goals and 48 assists in 57 games) remains firmly in second. While the Swiss centre has been pushing Patrick for first overall, he hasn’t done enough to surpass him.

http://www.tsn.ca/craig-s-list-lots-of-talent-after-patrick-hischier-1.702428

Craig Button seems to agree with my assessment. Both are certainly exciting prospects.

I'm very surprised by how far Tippett has fallen, and how high he has Necas. Not at all surprised to see Makar moved up, as I have him even higher on my list.

Another big surprise for me is how low he has ranked Robert Thomas. I would be thrilled if he fell to us in round 2 and we took him.

 

[ginner classic]

http://www.tsn.ca/craig-s-list-lots-of-talent-after-patrick-hischier-1.702428

Craig Button seems to agree with my assessment. Both are certainly exciting prospects.

I'm very surprised by how far Tippett has fallen, and how high he has Necas. Not at all surprised to see Makar moved up, as I have him even higher on my list.

Another big surprise for me is how low he has ranked Robert Thomas. I would be thrilled if he fell to us in round 2 and we took him.

His list is the closest to my own. A few I take issue with. Overall I thought it was really good.

 

[Orca Smash]

http://www.tsn.ca/craig-s-list-lots-of-talent-after-patrick-hischier-1.702428

Craig Button seems to agree with my assessment. Both are certainly exciting prospects.

I'm very surprised by how far Tippett has fallen, and how high he has Necas. Not at all surprised to see Makar moved up, as I have him even higher on my list.

Another big surprise for me is how low he has ranked Robert Thomas. I would be thrilled if he fell to us in round 2 and we took him.

I dont think Tippett is even a consideration for benning since he plays wing.

 

[sting101]

Wow!....Button's mock draft is out....some real shockers....Tippett drops out of the top-10 all the way back to 20th...and Klim Kostin barely hanging on as a first-round selection...Necas is at no. 3 and Makar at no. 5....and Rasmusson now back in the mid-teens....Suzuki cracks the top-10.

Middelstadt holding steady at no. 6....he might be Canucks' guy.

Wow!!!

Buttons more volatile than a y2k-JetsAlternate pissing match.

Tippett drops 15 spots in 11 days...crazy.

Gotta say CB has me even more hyped by Martin Necas than i already was.

i think were starting to look pretty good......Patrick Hishier Vilardi Necas and Mittelstadt someone with some excellent top6 C capabilities should be there to join Horvat down the middle