OT: 2017 Football Thread II: Rofl.

[Hunter Gathers]

How will Payton fare without an HoF caliber QB? If he joined the Jets with this roster nothing would change.

Well, ideally Payton would have full control of the team and the ability to rebuild it.

 

[silverfish]

I don't understand football trades at all, so what would trading for a RG/RT look like for the g-men?

Also: Does anyone have any recommended people to follow on Twitter for NFL advanced stats? I promise I won't drown this thread with them...

 

[Hunter Gathers]

I don't understand football trades at all, so what would trading for a RG/RT look like for the g-men?

Also: Does anyone have any recommended people to follow on Twitter for NFL advanced stats? I promise I won't drown this thread with them...

We will have to wait to deadline day for any potential moves. Teams won't mover starters until then. And even then only normally pending free agents. For an elite RT, you're looking at a 1st or 2nd round pick depending on the team and player. For a serviceable starter, a mid-round pick.

 

[silverfish]

We will have to wait to deadline day for any potential moves. Teams won't mover starters until then. And even then only normally pending free agents. For an elite RT, you're looking at a 1st or 2nd round pick depending on the team and player. For a serviceable starter, a mid-round pick.

What about a football version of a 'hockey' trade? Do teams ever trade from a position of strength to solidify a position of weakness? We've seen a couple of DB/WR swaps recently.

Is Cockrell good enough to step in? Did he play at all against the Cowboys?

Now, I'm not saying I want to trade Apple, because I don't, but what would something like that look like? Apple for a market-equivalent RT? Or, is it 'smarter' to trade a 1st/2nd than an established player? Probably the draft pick.

 

[mas0764]

Not according to the CBA. That's really the issue, here, with how these are run.

Well, getting away from the issue of the victim's credibility, the ironic thing is that if Goodell was straightforward with Elliott about Roberts from the beginning, and if they let Elliott see, examine, and question the notes from the victim's interviews with Roberts, Elliott probably has no case. Goodell could have easily broadcast Roberts' opinion high and low and then still said he disagreed with it anyway, because there is no preponderance of the evidence standard in the CBA, that is correct. Goodell is within his authority to find against Elliott even if the evidence is wildly in favor of his innocence. Instead, they actively concealed Roberts' opinion until Henderson ruled at the last minute he'd allow her to testify. Friel said to Elliott's camp that Roberts' opinion was "cumulative" of her own and what she (Friel) recommended to the four person panel. The Judge said this was "obviously false," or something along those lines.

So what the Judge decided so far, though, and what was called in advance by a couple of legal experts, was that Elliott demonstrated a likelihood of success enough to grant an injunction based on what the Judge saw as a lack of fundamental fairness in the process, notwithstanding the text of the CBA contract itself. Doesn't mean that this Judge will side with Elliott when all is said and done but it certainly looks like he may be leaning that way, pending the discovery that is going to occur. Unfortunately for the league, the CBA's arbitration provisions can be nullified on fairness grounds even if the league maintains they adhered to the letter of the agreement.

 

[TheTakedown]

Vikings D was great but somehow only netted me one point. Lol. JFC.

Sometimes I hate fantasy football and its scoring. Lost by four points this first week with OBJ out and Allen Robinson going down for the year. So not a bad outing.

I agree, Fantasy Hockey is way more my thing than Fantasy Football... One of my leagues I drafted Edelman and Meredith.

Both were injured for the year within 2 days of the draft. Had to go to waivers and did ok getting Amendola to replace Edelman.

Amendola then gets a concussion. Hogan was already taken so, yeah **** me...

I have Gronk on that same team so it works out OK for that team, but my other Fantasy team I don't have Gronk, and Hogan's gone, so, that one is ****ed.

 

[nyr2k2]

I took Elliott, Willie Snead and Andrew Luck. Elliott I knew would payoff eventually, just not for potentially an entire season. Snead I'm stashing to help with my WR depth, though I snagged Thielen relatively late, Hopkins later than he should have gone, and Crabtree. Then at the tail end I took Corey Coleman from Cleveland who could be a huge steal. Luck I wasn't sure about, but I took Derek Carr right before him.

If my guys are healthy and all come back from suspension playing well I have a killer team. The worst player I have on my team is Frank Gore.

 

[sbjnyc]

I don't understand football trades at all, so what would trading for a RG/RT look like for the g-men?

Also: Does anyone have any recommended people to follow on Twitter for NFL advanced stats? I promise I won't drown this thread with them...

Warren Sharp.

Football trades are pretty rare. The cap clouds everything. Like HG said, you won't see any moves until the deadline and there really aren't many deadline deals since it's relatively early in the season (was week 6 now week 8 I think). Trades would just be for picks or maybe cap dumps.

What about a football version of a 'hockey' trade? Do teams ever trade from a position of strength to solidify a position of weakness? We've seen a couple of DB/WR swaps recently.

Is Cockrell good enough to step in? Did he play at all against the Cowboys?

Now, I'm not saying I want to trade Apple, because I don't, but what would something like that look like? Apple for a market-equivalent RT? Or, is it 'smarter' to trade a 1st/2nd than an established player? Probably the draft pick.

There's no draft lottery in the NFL and there are a lot of spots to fill in the roster. Giants are not trading a starting CB if they're in the playoff hunt, no team out of the race is trading picks and trading a young starter for the 1st round pick of a team in the hunt probably isn't worth it, IMO.

 

[sbjnyc]

Not according to the CBA. That's really the issue, here, with how these are run.

The only question that matters now is whether the NFL followed their own process. Whatever the result, both parties come out of this looking bad.

 

[JimmyG89]

Football trades rarely happen because of dead cap, similar to buyouts. The amount of dead cap acquired is because of signing bonus.

If a player has none, there is no dead cap. If a player still has signing bonuses to be paid, that is counted against the team's cap number. It really hampers a team from trading a player if they have bonuses. Players without them are easier to move, but very rare to find, because of non-guaranteed contracts.

Even then, unless you're getting something valuable, which to me any draft choice is, you hold onto the player and cut them in the offseason.

 

[nyr2k2]

The only question that matters now is whether the NFL followed their own process. Whatever the result, both parties come out of this looking bad.

The NFL really ought to just cave to the demands of the PA and reform the disciplinary process. The NFL's is more one-sided than the other leagues, it seems (I'm not an expert). It just feels like there's so much more prolonged acrimony and judicial involvement with the NFL's process as compared to other leagues. Feels like even when the NFL is in the right, they somehow come out of things looking foolish because of the processes in place--and the dunce running the show.

 

[Hunter Gathers]

The NFL really ought to just cave to the demands of the PA and reform the disciplinary process. The NFL's is more one-sided than the other leagues, it seems (I'm not an expert). It just feels like there's so much more prolonged acrimony and judicial involvement with the NFL's process as compared to other leagues. Feels like even when the NFL is in the right, they somehow come out of things looking foolish because of the processes in place--and the dunce running the show.

I think the NFL uses it as a bargaining chip. The PA was moronic to agree to the current method in the first place.

 

[nyr2k2]

How will Payton fare without an HoF caliber QB? If he joined the Jets with this roster nothing would change.

Right, with this Jets roster he wouldn't change anything. That's why I made the comment about letting him take control of roster decisions from Maccagnan. You bring him in and give him the power to build the team as he sees fit. Starting with using a top-three pick on a QB. Certainly there's no quick fix for the Jets. It's a process. I'd absolutely be down with Payton spearheading that process.

I think the NFL uses it as a bargaining chip. The PA was moronic to agree to the current method in the first place.

Oh yeah, they absolutely use it as a chip. I'm just saying, at some point they should consider saying **** it, our disciplinary process causes a ton of image problems for us, let's take the high road, look like the good guy for a change and propose sitting down with the PA and working on something more reasonable. Or, sure, they can wait until the CBA expires and keep using it as a chip. Either way, though, they gotta change something.

And just to be clear, I'm not talking about this in the context of the Elliott situation. Though they've made a mess of this one as well.

 

[NYGBleedBlueNYR]

Duane Brown is holding out in Houston. They have no 1st or 2nd Rd pick.

I think he's the best option but you have to be willing to pay him too.

After him I can really only see getting a OT from teams with really bad starts that would prefer a top draft pick. I'd say that likely not a great OT but probably still an upgrade. Maybe Joe Staley

A football trade is really hard to gauge. Honestly I think the piece that Id part with(that has any value) would be Sheppard.

I'd say it's damn near impossible due to the league rules.

 

[NYGBleedBlueNYR]

Nflpa has to be the worst run union in sports.

 

[sabremike]

The NFL really ought to just cave to the demands of the PA and reform the disciplinary process. The NFL's is more one-sided than the other leagues, it seems (I'm not an expert). It just feels like there's so much more prolonged acrimony and judicial involvement with the NFL's process as compared to other leagues. Feels like even when the NFL is in the right, they somehow come out of things looking foolish because of the processes in place--and the dunce running the show.

They view the players as tampons who are used and disgarded. They have less than zero respect for the players.

 

[Hunter Gathers]

I think I still somehow lose this week when my starting lineup is:

QB: Cam Newton
RB1: Todd Gurley
RB2: Melvin Gordon
WR1: Odell Beckham Jr.
WR2: Mike Evans
TE: Rob Gronkowski
FLEX: Kareem Hunt
D/ST: Vikings
K: Aldrick Rosas

I have a ****ing beastly team but just have the worst luck around.

My damn bench is:

Jordan Howard
DeAndre Hopkins
Kyle Rudolph
Tyreek Hill

 

[Fugazy]

I think I still somehow lose this week when my starting lineup is:

QB: Cam Newton
RB1: Todd Gurley
RB2: Melvin Gordon
WR1: Odell Beckham Jr.
WR2: Mike Evans
TE: Rob Gronkowski
FLEX: Kareem Hunt
D/ST: Vikings
K: Aldrick Rosas

I have a ****ing beastly team but just have the worst luck around.

My damn bench is:

Jordan Howard
DeAndre Hopkins
Kyle Rudolph
Tyreek Hill

How many teams are in your league? 4?

 

[Hunter Gathers]

How many teams are in your league? 4?

8. A lot of people tried to be cute in our draft (it's filled with a lot of hardcore fans who think they can outsmart the system).

 

[nyr2k2]

I'm always in a 12-team. Anything less and everyone is a powerhouse. I feel like with 12 teams you really need to know what you're doing to assemble a team that's good weeks 1-16. You gotta work the waiver wire when guys go down and make shrewd match up-based plays.

When I did an 8-team league it was like, oh, my RB 2 got injured? Let me just go grab another starting RB from the free agent pool. I even streamed QBs one year and was very successful with that.

An 8-team format could be fun, I just prefer 12 or even deeper.

 

[Fugazy]

8. A lot of people tried to be cute in our draft (it's filled with a lot of hardcore fans who think they can outsmart the system).

That's still an insanely impressive squad for an 8 team league.

 

[Mac n Gs]

LOL Jon pls that team is just stupid good. In my 12-team league I got:

Carr, Mike Evans, DHopkins, Diggs, Fournette, JStewart, Olsen, Seattle, and Matt Bryant. My flex is a revolving door of Mixon, Rawls, John Brown, and Agholor. I have Prosise and Kamara stashed in case. I put too much stock in rookies, but I really like my WR corps

 

[nyr2k2]

Carr, D. Freeman, Elliott, Hopkins, Crabtree, Eifert, Bailey, and I stream my defense (Oakland this week). Flex is Thielen. Bench I have an injured Luck, Buck Allen, Gore and Corey Coleman.

 

[Bob Richards]

I'm a fan of 10 team leagues. Nice blend of top heavy while still requiring some depth knowledge.

Not gonna lie, I'm not crazy about super deep leagues where you have to hope some 3rd string, passing option running back puts up 3 points to cover his projections.

 

[Synergy27]

I'm a fan of 10 team leagues. Nice blend of top heavy while still requiring some depth knowledge.

Not gonna lie, I'm not crazy about super deep leagues where you have to hope some 3rd string, passing option running back puts up 3 points to cover his projections.

The more teams in the league, the more skill that's involved. The winner is still decided mostly on luck though.

8 teams or less and every team is stacked so it's like 90/10 luck/skill.

12 teams, probably still 70/30?

I dunno. I've been playing for a long time and I enjoy it but the game will drive you nuts if you put too much stock in your own ability.