OT: 2017 American Football Thread

[blood gin]

I understand the Patriots are outstanding, but the incalculable amount of luck they get, usually some combination of referees, a miracle, and sudden poor decision making by the opposition that has never happened before or will happen since where a Patriot has the ball miraculously come to him at that moment, I don't know but this shouldn't be possible by mathematics. But it keeps happening?

I can't think of any other team in any sport ever that has had this kind of luck except 1 game against the Giants (won't count the 2nd SB, that catch was skill)

 

[blood gin]

I just have never seen any entity in any walk of life get this kind of luck. It's not even sports it's just all of everything in the world.

 

[Devilsgrl35]

The Pats luck is unreal. You'd think eventually the law of averages would kick in but it never does

 

[Edmonton East]

The Pats luck is unreal. You'd think eventually the law of averages would kick in but it never does

I can't tell if these types of posts are serious.

2 Giants' Super Bowls say "Hi".

Most dominant sports franchise (Pats) for well over a decade....must be luck!

 

[Just Win]

That final play sums up the Raiders season perfectly...

I can't tell if these types of posts are serious.

2 Giants' Super Bowls say "Hi".

Most dominant sports franchise (Pats) for well over a decade....must be luck!

Nobody is saying they aren't a great team but they also certainly had an insane amount of luck at just the right time. But i am just a Raiders fan who is still bitter about the tuck rule....

 

[Better Call Sal]

See, I just cannot for the life of me understand why they choose to complicate something that should be so simple.

James makes the catch, gets his knee and other foot down and lunges over the goal line. If a RB does it, then it's ruled a TD for that reason. Why does this need to be overcomplicated further?

The NFL really is just a joke.

 

[tr83]

See, I just cannot for the life of me understand why they choose to complicate something that should be so simple.

James makes the catch, gets his knee and other foot down and lunges over the goal line. If a RB does it, then it's ruled a TD for that reason. Why does this need to be overcomplicated further?

The NFL really is just a joke.

It's simple. Control and two feet down (one knee, buttcheek, elbow) is a catch. The ground can't force a fumble.

I'm old enough to remember the scenarios that caused these convoluted rules to be implemented. But because there were so many of them, the criteria for ruling something a catch has become archaic


The other thing that drives me crazy is that play with Sefarian-Jenkins. If the ball is moving but the ball doesn't come out, it should still be considered possession.

 

[Edmonton East]

See, I just cannot for the life of me understand why they choose to complicate something that should be so simple.

James makes the catch, gets his knee and other foot down and lunges over the goal line. If a RB does it, then it's ruled a TD for that reason. Why does this need to be overcomplicated further?

The NFL really is just a joke.

I really don't get what all the fuss is about. The first replay I saw I said that isn't a catch. I thought it was pretty straightforward based on the rules. You always have to maintain possession going to the ground. He didn't. Case closed.

It's not like he caught it at the 5 and lost control entering the endzone. The outrage about this is ridiculous. And I'm a Giants fan, so I'm not being a homer here.

 

[Better Call Sal]

I really don't get what all the fuss is about. The first replay I saw I said that isn't a catch. I thought it was pretty straightforward based on the rules. You always have to maintain possession going to the ground. He didn't. Case closed.

It's not like he caught it at the 5 and lost control entering the endzone. The outrage about this is ridiculous. And I'm a Giants fan, so I'm not being a homer here.

I'm a Jets fan, so I hate both teams. To me, it's just the rule being convoluted for the sake of it. I don't think the outrage is ridiculous at all. How long do you need possession to cross the goal line with the ball? If he was touched by someone while lunging to the endzone and the ball crossed the goal line before he hit the ground with it, wouldn't that be considered a TD?

It shouldn't be this complicated. It's catching a ball for god's sake.

 

[tr83]

I can't tell if these types of posts are serious.

2 Giants' Super Bowls say "Hi".

Most dominant sports franchise (Pats) for well over a decade....must be luck!

Let's be real, the NFL has shown that it does favor some franchises over others. The drama behind Goodell's contract has shown that the two most powerful owners in the NFL are Jones and Kraft.

Do you think Tom Brady and Cam Newton get the same treatment. As a Jet fan, I've seen at least 50 games involving Brady and you can't sneeze on him. I've seen Brady bitch enough at the refs get calls. Deflategate. How much offensive pass interference does Gronk get away with? The Sefarian Jenkins mess of a call earlier in the season. I could go on and on and on and on

 

[Edmonton East]

I'm a Jets fan, so I hate both teams. To me, it's just the rule being convoluted for the sake of it. I don't think the outrage is ridiculous at all. How long do you need possession to cross the goal line with the ball? If he was touched by someone while lunging to the endzone and the ball crossed the goal line before he hit the ground with it, wouldn't that be considered a TD?

It shouldn't be this complicated. It's catching a ball for god's sake.

He was still in the process of making the catch. Think of it this way: If a defender hit him right there in the open field (instead of the ground), it would have been an incomplete pass. Not a fumble. Because he was still in the process of making the catch.

 

[Edmonton East]

Let's be real, the NFL has shown that it does favor some franchises over others. The drama behind Goodell's contract has shown that the two most powerful owners in the NFL are Jones and Kraft.

Do you think Tom Brady and Cam Newton get the same treatment. As a Jet fan, I've seen at least 50 games involving Brady and you can't sneeze on him. I've seen Brady ***** enough at the refs get calls. Deflategate. How much offensive pass interference does Gronk get away with? The Sefarian Jenkins mess of a call earlier in the season. I could go on and on and on and on

....Yes, the two owners that have arguably been the most dicked over by the NFL in recent years, are actually getting all the calls and the league is playing favorites. Right....

NFL caters to Jones and Kraft, yet it went after them for Zeke and Brady...doesn't add up.

 

[Better Call Sal]

He was still in the process of making the catch. Think of it this way: If a defender hit him right there in the open field (instead of the ground), it would have been an incomplete pass. Not a fumble. Because he was still in the process of making the catch.

But what is the completion of the process? He gets a knee and his other foot down after he catches the ball. I realize no one touched him to consider him down, but if he was simply touched on his back by someone while he lunged and the ball was over the plane, that would be a touchdown, correct?

This entire analysis to me just demonstrates that the rule itself is too convoluted. I understand your point and where you're coming from completely, I just think that the entire concept of analyzing a catch to this degree is bad. We'll just have to agree to disagree at the end of the day.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

I can't tell if these types of posts are serious.

2 Giants' Super Bowls say "Hi".

Most dominant sports franchise (Pats) for well over a decade....must be luck!

you absolutely 100% need a lot of luck to be as consistently good as the Pats have been

That doesn't take away anything from them having the greatest coach and greatest QB of all time

 

[tr83]

....Yes, the two owners that have arguably been the most dicked over by the NFL in recent years, are actually getting all the calls and the league is playing favorites. Right....

NFL caters to Jones and Kraft, yet it went after them for Zeke and Brady...doesn't add up.

Jesus Christ, this is a f***ing dumb comment.

The reason Zeke was suspended by the NFL was because Jerry Jones demanded that players arrested for domestic violence be given an extended suspension after Ray Rice was only given two games. It was a PR stunt to save face when the tape of Rice punching out his SO in the elevator surfaced. Guess what, it happened to his superstar player, who already had a history of violence while in college. Jerry wanted to run Goodell out of his job for that.

 

[NJDevs26]

But what is the completion of the process? He gets a knee and his other foot down after he catches the ball. I realize no one touched him to consider him down, but if he was simply touched on his back by someone while he lunged and the ball was over the plane, that would be a touchdown, correct?

This entire analysis to me just demonstrates that the rule itself is too convoluted. I understand your point and where you're coming from completely, I just think that the entire concept of analyzing a catch to this degree is bad. We'll just have to agree to disagree at the end of the day.

And if he ran three or four steps without anyone touching him would the catch have been ‘completed’ then? A catch should be possession with two feet down inbounds, any other codicils are just garbage.

 

[Edmonton East]

Jesus Christ, this is a ****ing dumb comment.

The reason Zeke was suspended by the NFL was because Jerry Jones demanded that players arrested for domestic violence be given an extended suspension after Ray Rice was only given two games. It was a PR stunt to save face when the tape of Rice punching out his SO in the elevator surfaced. Guess what, it happened to his superstar player, who already had a history of violence while in college. Jerry wanted to run Goodell out of his job for that.

Your "argument" makes 0 sense.

I applaud your efforts, though. Keep living in fantasy land where the NFL is actively trying to ensure the Pats and Cowboys win. Despite suspending each of their best players in the past 2 years. But, yea, totally you're right man.

Pats are a bit of a touchy subject for you Jets fans, eh?

 

[Patrik26]

See, I just cannot for the life of me understand why they choose to complicate something that should be so simple.

James makes the catch, gets his knee and other foot down and lunges over the goal line. If a RB does it, then it's ruled a TD for that reason. Why does this need to be overcomplicated further?

The NFL really is just a joke.

The NFL sucks ass. Haven't watched a down this season and I don't miss it.

 

[Edmonton East]

And if he ran three or four steps without anyone touching him would the catch have been ‘completed’ then? A catch should be possession with two feet down inbounds, any other codicils are just garbage.

It is dude. The issue is determining what is considered "possession".

I run a slant, I get popped right as the ball hits my hands and drop it, but I had two feet down. That a fumble? No.

 

[BenedictGomez]

I can't think of any other team in any sport ever that has had this kind of luck except 1 game against the Giants (won't count the 2nd SB, that catch was skill)

The New York Giants. The Patriots of the NFC.

 

[Edmonton East]

This reddit post is so spot on, as are many of the top comments.

 

[BenedictGomez]

This reddit post is so spot on, as are many of the top comments.

<---- Team NFL Commentators.


I've watched football my entire life, and I used to know what a catch is/was, and I don't have that confidence anymore. My guesses are usually correct, but previous to this "going to the ground, blah, blah, blah, wiggle, blah, blah, blah, maintain possession throughout, blah, blah, blah", I didnt have to guess.

 

[NJDevs26]

No the issue with the catch rule is replay, not the commentators (many former players included). The reason nobody knows what a catch is because we’re now constantly told by HD and the ‘rules’ that we can no longer believe our eyes or common sense. Five years ago before replay automatically reviewed scores that play doesn’t even get challenged let alone overturned. Before replay nobody would have blinked at that being called a TD

 

[Saugus]

I think there's something to that argument. The fact that you can parse a split second play frame by frame, zooming in on individual blades of grass or chalk dust or whatever is what causes this sort of ambiguity. Ironic, for something that was supposed to make it easier to tell exactly what happened.

 

[NJDevs26]

I think there's something to that argument. The fact that you can parse a split second play frame by frame, zooming in on individual blades of grass or chalk dust or whatever is what causes this sort of ambiguity. Ironic, for something that was supposed to make it easier to tell exactly what happened.

Replay was designed to fix the obvious mistake but too often these days it winds up just creating more ambiguity and aggravation. Like the offsides challenge in hockey, in theory it’s great cause nobody wants to miss a call but too often it only fixes the millimeter offsides (or skate above the ice which creates more ambiguity) that nobody would care about cause they can’t see it with the naked eye call. Simplify replay and simplify the rules.