2017/2018 Management Discussion | NEW MOD WARNING IN OP AS OF 5/20/18

[mathonwy]

But, that started with Gillis at the helm. It wasn't like Benning inherited the two president cup trophy team and then went bad.

Please stop talking about Gillis.

Gillis left at the end of 13-14. That's 4 years ago.

Can we live in the present please?

 

[rune74]

Please stop talking about Gillis.

Gillis left at the end of 13-14. That's 4 years ago.

Can we live in the present please?

Figures.

 

[mathonwy]

Figures.

You're being emotional again.

If you hadn't noticed, this team has bottomed out and it's not getting any better.

Goaltending, defense and forwards. They all lick balls.

Gillis left this team 4 years ago but you STILL want to put blame on him.

I really don't understand.

Please help me understand why a GM that left this team 4 years ago has ANY relevance to what's happening now.

 

[opendoor]

I don't know how anyone can watch what Vegas is doing with the rest of the league's table scraps and still argue that the Canucks ending up as a bottom 3 team for years straight was some sort of inevitability. After 4 years on the job, this in Benning's team.

 

[PG Canuck]

But, that started with Gillis at the helm. It wasn't like Benning inherited the two president cup trophy team and then went bad.

It’s been four years and it’s still Gillis’ fault? Gillis didn’t sign Eriksson, Gagner, MDZ, Nilsson. He didn’t hire Willie and then have him play Vey/Chaput/Megna/Sutter big minutes. He didn’t blow the Virtanen pick, and what’s looking like, the Juolevi pick.

We could go on all day, but you just turn away when any criticism of Benning comes forth.

Everyone here will agree Gillis’ drafting was bad - like, we f***ing get it already. We are all aware of it. We all agree with it, so quit dying on that hill.

Benning has not even been close to making as shrewd of a deal as Gillis did for Ehrhoff. He Baertschi and Granlund deals don’t even challenge that deal, even if they are “wins”. Gillis is a better GM with one move alone.

But anyways I digress because we all know it’s going to fall back on “But but but but but Gillis but but”.

 

[Hit the post]

It’s been four years and it’s still Gillis’ fault?

lol - Burkie didn't need 4 years to turn around the mess left behind from Keenan/Quinn/Messier. And that was a team that couldn't afford to spend money like this one.

 

[me2]

I don't know how anyone can watch what Vegas is doing with the rest of the league's table scraps and still argue that the Canucks ending up as a bottom 3 team for years straight was some sort of inevitability. After 4 years on the job, this in Benning's team.

4 years......and the only half decent piece his GM'd up is Baertschi. That is absurdly bad for retooling/rebuilding GM.

 

[y2kcanucks]

Figures.

I don't get this. How is Gillis relevant at all?

 

[ccjon]

I don't get this. How is Gillis relevant at all?

Apparently a GM can't do their job unless the previous manager gifts them multiple blue chip prospects and young players ...

 

[mathonwy]

Apparently a GM can't do their job unless the previous manager gifts them multiple blue chip prospects and young players ...

Well...

What did Jimbo inherit from Gilly?

• He inherited a top line: Sedin-Sedin-Hansen
• He inherited a Olympic level 2nd line checking center. Sure he was disgruntled. A disgruntled 2nd line checking center that led the team in scoring with 25 goals in 13/14. Kesler's fees fees have ZERO bearing on his objective market value which we see is worth
  
• He inherited three quality bottom 6 players: Richardson, Matthias, Kassian
• He inherited two quality middle 6 players: Burr, Higgins
• He inherited three legit top 4 d-men: Hammer, Edler, Tanev
• He inherited two legit top 5 d-men: Garrison, Bieksa
• He inherited a likable young backup goaltender that was good enough to backstop the team to a first round berth when his 3Y/18M 36 year old goalie went down with a groin pull.
• He inherited Hutton, Horvat and Markstrom.
  
• He inherited two competent executives in Gilman and Henning
• And as per Y2K's usual stellar posts, he inherited a complete scouting staff to which he has added ONE person to that being his son, he of ZERO years of scouting experience.

Zomg... Gilly left Jimbo with nothing. Gilly handcuffed Jimbo. Jimbo started with nothing and still has nothing.

edit.

Oh crap.

I can't believe I forgot the most important thing.

Jimbo inherited a SOUND salary cap structure.

Jimbo inherited a whole bunch of GOOD players that fit under the salary cap structure which he subsequently destroyed by firing said competent executives and giving raises to trash players.

 

[Melvin]

I still can't get over "jim turned them around for a season, he never said how long he would turn them around for." incredible.

Are there awards given out for corporate spin?

 

[rune74]

You're being emotional again.

If you hadn't noticed, this team has bottomed out and it's not getting any better.

Goaltending, defense and forwards. They all lick balls.

Gillis left this team 4 years ago but you STILL want to put blame on him.

I really don't understand.

Please help me understand why a GM that left this team 4 years ago has ANY relevance to what's happening now.

I think you may be being emotional. I was commenting on your post on how you go from two straight president trophies to bottom finishes, nothing more. Which started under Gillis. Of course the brigade in here jumped on more.

 

[rune74]

It’s been four years and it’s still Gillis’ fault? Gillis didn’t sign Eriksson, Gagner, MDZ, Nilsson. He didn’t hire Willie and then have him play Vey/Chaput/Megna/Sutter big minutes. He didn’t blow the Virtanen pick, and what’s looking like, the Juolevi pick.

We could go on all day, but you just turn away when any criticism of Benning comes forth.

Everyone here will agree Gillis’ drafting was bad - like, we ****ing get it already. We are all aware of it. We all agree with it, so quit dying on that hill.

Benning has not even been close to making as shrewd of a deal as Gillis did for Ehrhoff. He Baertschi and Granlund deals don’t even challenge that deal, even if they are “wins”. Gillis is a better GM with one move alone.

But anyways I digress because we all know it’s going to fall back on “But but but but but Gillis but but”.

I'm getting really tired of this...look at the post I was referring to and see my last post. I wasn't even debating the rest, just that the team was on a downward spiral.

But do please tell me what I meant.

I turn away with critics of Benning? Stop posting stupid crap like that please, not deserved and trolling to be honest.

And the who the hell is this we again? Are you a mod?

 

[CanaFan]

Well...

What did Jimbo inherit from Gilly?

• He inherited a top line: Sedin-Sedin-Hansen
• He inherited a Olympic level 2nd line checking center. Sure he was disgruntled. A disgruntled 2nd line checking center that led the team in scoring with 25 goals in 13/14. Kesler's fees fees have ZERO bearing on his objective market value which we see is worth
  
• He inherited three quality bottom 6 players: Richardson, Matthias, Kassian
• He inherited two quality middle 6 players: Burr, Higgins
• He inherited three legit top 4 d-men: Hammer, Edler, Tanev
• He inherited two legit top 5 d-men: Garrison, Bieksa
• He inherited a likable young backup goaltender that was good enough to backstop the team to a first round berth when his 3Y/18M 36 year old goalie went down with a groin pull.
• He inherited Hutton, Horvat and Markstrom.
  
• He inherited two competent executives in Gilman and Henning
• And as per Y2K's usual stellar posts, he inherited a complete scouting staff to which he has added ONE person to that being his son, he of ZERO years of scouting experience.

Zomg... Gilly left Jimbo with nothing. Gilly handcuffed Jimbo. Jimbo started with nothing and still has nothing.

edit.

Oh crap.

I can't believe I forgot the most important thing.

Jimbo inherited a SOUND salary cap structure.

Jimbo inherited a whole bunch of GOOD players that fit under the salary cap structure which he subsequently destroyed by firing said competent executives and giving raises to trash players.

Unless I missed it above, Benning also inherited the 6th overall pick in a draft that had 2 outstanding players rated right in the 6-9 portion of the draft.

 

[Bleach Clean]

They did turn the team around for one year. He did not mention how ling the team would be turn around for.

What the...?? So it was a controlled burst, Benning only wanted to give people 1 year of winning?

This team was going down no matter what the new gm did. Had one prospect, no good young players, a regressing core and two players in their primes Tanev and Edler. No matter who Benning drafted traded or signed realistically it would be a bad team now. He has done a mediocre job of improving this trend. So I do not mind him being replaced, but it seems there is no factoring in the inevitable decline that this team was going to be on 2015 to now. The Sedins were always going to regress. There was no way to stop this downfall.

If Benning knew this to be true, why did he attempt to continually retool? This is the fascinating part of the Benning argument. If the team was going to inevitably decline, why attempt to prop it up? Why not instead liquidate assets before hand? Create a larger pool of future assets and push the prospects angle?

You're being very complimentary with the term "mediocre" when describing Benning's work here. Very kind.

 

[me2]

Unless I missed it above, Benning also inherited the 6th overall pick in a draft that had 2 outstanding players rated right in the 6-9 portion of the draft.

And a bunch of cap.
And an overhauled scouting service (ie that were the ones directly responsible for Boeser).


All Benning had to do was makes some GM101 level trades, take the picks his scouts asked him to, and sit on his hands the rest of the time.

 

[CanaFan]

Maybe there was no way to stop the eventual decline of the team but rather than help soften the descent Benning doused it in gasoline and lit a match while thinking he was keeping it aloft.

 

[WTG]

What we now have to worry about is Benning going for a hail mary to save his career in Vancouver.

 

[valkynax]

What we now have to worry about is Benning going for a hail mary to save his career in Vancouver.

That's been my worry for a little while now.

The biological part of us that's willing to sacrifice anything, anyone and go any lengths for self-preservation is extremely difficult to resist. When a man's head is under the guillotine, his madness will only be amplified, and amplified exponentially.

I hope I am wrong.

 

[me2]

That's been my worry for a little while now.

The biological part of us that's willing to sacrifice anything, anyone and go any lengths for self-preservation is extremely difficult to resist. When a man's head is under the guillotine, his madness will only be amplified, and amplified exponentially.

I hope I am wrong.

You know Evander Kane's agent is thinking $7m+ x 7 years. Jim needs something and I don't see anything else out there he can sell to fans.

 

[rypper]

Hopefully Jim truly is a lame duck GM and any moves he might want to make have to go through the approval of linden/ownership.

 

[CanaFan]

What we now have to worry about is Benning going for a hail mary to save his career in Vancouver.

I don’t think he’s allowed to trade anything that the public would view negatively. Horvat, Boeser, the 2018 1st would cause a public riot esp after “officially” using the R word last year. So I think the truly damaging potential is off the table.

So perhaps he moves a 2nd, or Baertschi, or Tanev, or something of less immense PR value for a “save my job” type of return. And if he does it will likely do what all other Benning moves have done which is blow up in his face and hasten his demise.

So in a way I’m hoping for it. It may cost us a limb but this metaphorical cancer needs to be cut out.

 

[RandV]

Maybe there was no way to stop the eventual decline of the team but rather than help soften the descent Benning doused it in gasoline and lit a match while thinking he was keeping it aloft.

Yes it was always going to be a long shot to keep us as a competitive playoff team as the Sedin's neared retirerment, I don't think anyone would deny that. The real point here is how spectacularly Benning failed at trying to remain competitive and the number of future assets he squandered in the process.

If you want an example of a modest but successful 'competitive retoll' from a team that was in our position I'd say look at Calgary.

 

[RandV]

What we now have to worry about is Benning going for a hail mary to save his career in Vancouver.

For the moment at least I'm not too concerned here. You're talking about us making the playoffs here, but we're already down more than a touch down for a hail mary play to work. Benning's best bet now is to go the opposite direction towards the rebuild and plead his case from there.

If we were still only a few points out of the playoffs on the other hand... yeah I'd be pretty damn worried, specifically looking Chicago's way with Brent Seabrook.

 

[mathonwy]

I think you may be being emotional. I was commenting on your post on how you go from two straight president trophies to bottom finishes, nothing more. Which started under Gillis. Of course the brigade in here jumped on more.

Figures.