2017/2018 Management Discussion | NEW MOD WARNING IN OP AS OF 5/20/18

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infinitemile

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Oct 8, 2017
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I'd like to point out that despite how a big portion of this fanbase is still apparently braindead with regards to Jim's competency, it is now more socially acceptable to outwardly hate Benning's work. Baby steps people.
 

passive voice

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Jun 16, 2009
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Worked for Tampa. Just sayin. Not defending Benning.

Look I'd give a toe to swap Benning for Yzerman but it's worth remembering that Stevie showed up to a team with 20-yo Stamkos and 19-yo Hedman and has won seven playoff rounds in seven years (including missing the dance altogether 3 times). He's not a magician.

...Comparing football management to hockey is also ridiculous considering there are players who exclusively play defense and offense and teams can be built with defense only and win championships.

Could also look at baseball, where at this point 29 teams are run by a collegeboys and then there's Derek Jeter, who's spent his first winter in charge getting dunked all over.
 
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infinitemile

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. He's not a magician.

I don't know. Getting Sergachev for Drouin, a player that notoriously wanted to leave and thus had the leverage on Yzerman, was pretty magnificent. Also getting picks for Brett Connolly, or letting Bishop go when he knew that Vasilevskiy was ready, or acquiring Point and Johnson. The list goes on. Seems like a magician based on what we have here
 

CanaFan

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Funny stuff, Brackett pushed hard to draft him. Really, really hard.

Ya I get that, I’m just thinking it’s time to implement the mercy rule for the poor deluded souls who for some reason still want to defend Benning. Seeing every one of their “great hopes” (Sutter, Granlund, Gudbranson, Pouliot) come crashing down into a steaming pile of poo is fun but after a while it just gets kinda sad.
 

passive voice

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I don't know. Getting Sergachev for Drouin, a player that notoriously wanted to leave and thus had the leverage on Yzerman, was pretty magnificent. Also getting picks for Brett Connolly, or letting Bishop go when he knew that Vasilevskiy was ready, or acquiring Point and Johnson. The list goes on. Seems like a magician based on what we have here

The thing that Yzerman has done that I love is an apparent emphasis on skill in the draft. They've added Kucherov, Johnson, Palat and Point in the second round or later in his tenure, plus they currently have like 57 guys at the WJHCs.

At the NHL level it's sketchier. The St Louis/Callahan/Extension saga is brutal and then he has his share of Filppula/Garrison-level missteps.
 

MS

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The thing that Yzerman has done that I love is an apparent emphasis on skill in the draft. They've added Kucherov, Johnson, Palat and Point in the second round or later in his tenure, plus they currently have like 57 guys at the WJHCs.

At the NHL level it's sketchier. The St Louis/Callahan/Extension saga is brutal and then he has his share of Filppula/Garrison-level missteps.

On what planet were Garrison and Filppula mis-steps?
 

hookshott

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Dec 13, 2016
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Does it ever make you mad to think about the fact that Jim Benning is getting paid a six figure salary to systematically dismantle your hometown organization?

He’s not just botching picks, trades and contracts, he’s also removing competent staff and filling the organization with unqualified and incompetent “yes men.”

I’ll never understand how a multi-millionaire owner would allow two men with high school diplomas to run their organization.
Totally agree, I really do not understand this either? Now, does Aquilini actually have more than a high school diploma??
 

infinitemile

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Oct 8, 2017
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The thing that Yzerman has done that I love is an apparent emphasis on skill in the draft. They've added Kucherov, Johnson, Palat and Point in the second round or later in his tenure, plus they currently have like 57 guys at the WJHCs.

At the NHL level it's sketchier. The St Louis/Callahan/Extension saga is brutal and then he has his share of Filppula/Garrison-level missteps.

I don't think the St Louis/Callahan was that bad. Obviously you don't want to re-sign Callahan as he is now, and his contract is bad, but he is on LTIR so that contract isn't even on the books. But Yzerman's incredible moves when St. Louis demanded a trade shows exactly why Benning's haul for Kesler was so terrible. Both demanded a move, and listed only one or two teams. Yet Yzerman got Callahan, who was the Rangers captain for a period, and 2 firsts for a player that was going to leave anyways. Pretty impressive.

He also moved around Garrison's contract pretty well I thought. It was a mistake to give him that money, but Yzerman did what he had to do to get rid of it. And Filppula was the same thing, he got rid of that contract for nothing. It's honestly shocking to see the difference between Yzerman's skill in getting rid of contracts that are bad, versus Benning's "give them a ton of money and hope they're good".
 

MS

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When you look at the value they gave up for the asset, the value they got from the contract during their time there, and what they had to move to get out of the contract as it was getting bad, both Garrison and Filppula were home runs for TB.
 

passive voice

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Jun 16, 2009
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On what planet were Garrison and Filppula mis-steps?

They gave a 29-yo Filppula $30m to be a middle-six centre. He had one extremely good year (goosed by shooting 19%) and then started a predictable march into the toilet.

They gave up a 2nd for the privilege of paying a 30-yo Garrison $4.6m to be their 5th best defenseman.
 

Ryp37

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Nov 6, 2011
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This forum would be boring if Stevie Y was our GM, everyone just agreeing for the most part

Locking Stamkos in at 8.5 while other teams pay their stars 10+ is real nice, bet he gets Kucherov on a nice deal as well
 

MS

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Mar 18, 2002
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They gave a 29-yo Filppula $30m to be a middle-six centre. He had one extremely good year (goosed by shooting 19%) and then started a predictable march into the toilet.

They gave up a 2nd for the privilege of paying a 30-yo Garrison $4.6m to be their 5th best defenseman.

They gave up a combined late 2nd rounder for both players, got multiple years of quality top-6/top-4 service on solid contracts from both and went on two long playoff runs with both playing major minutes, and then unloaded both for essentially nothing.

Garrison was only their 5th-best defender in his 3rd season there. He was playing top-4 minutes his first two seasons and was huge in the playoffs both years.
 

valkynax

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I don't know. Getting Sergachev for Drouin, a player that notoriously wanted to leave and thus had the leverage on Yzerman, was pretty magnificent. Also getting picks for Brett Connolly, or letting Bishop go when he knew that Vasilevskiy was ready, or acquiring Point and Johnson. The list goes on. Seems like a magician based on what we have here

No Yzerman isn't a magician. I've said this already: he's pretty much like the Sith Lord of all GM's right now. His title should have "Darth" before it. The only one who MIGHT be a contest is Poile.

And yeah like you said, he somehow turned a whiny little turd into a young D who's looking to be a Norris level superstar in the near future. And that's merely one of the many moves he made. The current product on ice reflects Yzerman's actions almost perfectly.

Conversely, our team is also a perfect reflection of Benning's incalculable lunacies.
 

infinitemile

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Oct 8, 2017
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No Yzerman isn't a magician. I've said this already: he's pretty much like the Sith Lord of all GM's right now. His title should have "Darth" before it. The only one who MIGHT be a contest is Poile.

And yeah like you said, he somehow turned a whiny little turd into a young D who's looking to be a Norris level superstar in the near future. And that's merely one of the many moves he made. The current product on ice reflects Yzerman's actions almost perfectly.

Conversely, our team is also a perfect reflection of Benning's incalculable lunacies.

yup and what I think it boils down to the simple act of having a plan. Yzerman has had and currently has a plan. What is that plan? Well, it's to grow a core of Kucherov, Stamkos, Hedman, and the new goalie Vaselevskiy together and add the pieces around them. They found a great defensive player in Point. They found supporting D and forwards like Sergachev, Johnson, Paquette and JT Miller. That's always been the plan. When Stamkos went down last year it made it hard to make the playoffs but the key is he didn't waver from that plan. He didn't make rash moves, like dealing Drouin for a rental at the TDL. He was patient, and stuck to the plan. And it's benefiting him hugely right now. They are the best team in the league, a complete powerhouse, because he stuck to the plan and was patient.

Benning, meanwhile, has no plan. He's never had a plan. He is impatient. He makes moves off of impulse. Benning will say one thing, and then waver from it. The biggest example of this is the Gudbranson trade. Benning acted like Gudbranson would be a formative piece to our group, and then after only 18 months Gudbranson is well on his way to being out the door because it seems like he's nowhere near as good as Benning had thought. All he has is a general type of team he wants the Canucks to be: big bodies, fast, hard to play. That's all well and good, but what does that actually look like?What is our core, Jim? It changes every 5 minutes. First it's Sutter, now it's Dowd.

The truth of the matter is we don't have a core. Horvat, Boeser, Tanev is all the core we have, and Tanev doesn't really fit into our timeline. Horvat isn't a #1 C either, more of a good #2. We need a GM who has a plan. I want a GM who will be able to tell us right now, what our team will look like a year from now, two years from now, 5 years from now. And even more than that, we need a GM who will stick to the f***ing plan even when we're injured, even when there's setbacks.
 

MS

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Mar 18, 2002
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Vancouver, BC
yup and what I think it boils down to the simple act of having a plan. Yzerman has had and currently has a plan. What is that plan? Well, it's to grow a core of Kucherov, Stamkos, Hedman, and the new goalie Vaselevskiy together and add the pieces around them. They found a great defensive player in Point. They found supporting D and forwards like Sergachev, Johnson, Paquette and JT Miller. That's always been the plan. When Stamkos went down last year it made it hard to make the playoffs but the key is he didn't waver from that plan. He didn't make rash moves, like dealing Drouin for a rental at the TDL. He was patient, and stuck to the plan. And it's benefiting him hugely right now. They are the best team in the league, a complete powerhouse, because he stuck to the plan and was patient.

Benning, meanwhile, has no plan. He's never had a plan. He is impatient. He makes moves off of impulse. Benning will say one thing, and then waver from it. The biggest example of this is the Gudbranson trade. Benning acted like Gudbranson would be a formative piece to our group, and then after only 18 months Gudbranson is well on his way to being out the door because it seems like he's nowhere near as good as Benning had thought. All he has is a general type of team he wants the Canucks to be: big bodies, fast, hard to play. That's all well and good, but what does that actually look like?What is our core, Jim? It changes every 5 minutes. First it's Sutter, now it's Dowd.

The truth of the matter is we don't have a core. Horvat, Boeser, Tanev is all the core we have, and Tanev doesn't really fit into our timeline. Horvat isn't a #1 C either, more of a good #2. We need a GM who has a plan. I want a GM who will be able to tell us right now, what our team will look like a year from now, two years from now, 5 years from now. And even more than that, we need a GM who will stick to the ****ing plan even when we're injured, even when there's setbacks.

Absolutely. Great post.

When you get past arguing about the individual moves or draft picks or whatever, this is the bottom line.

There is no plan. There is no leadership. There is no patience. There is no consistency.

All this management group has done is jumble a team together based on their latest ever-changing whims with a vague goal of 'competing'.
 

valkynax

The LEEDAR
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May 19, 2011
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Burnaby
yup and what I think it boils down to the simple act of having a plan. Yzerman has had and currently has a plan. What is that plan? Well, it's to grow a core of Kucherov, Stamkos, Hedman, and the new goalie Vaselevskiy together and add the pieces around them. They found a great defensive player in Point. They found supporting D and forwards like Sergachev, Johnson, Paquette and JT Miller. That's always been the plan. When Stamkos went down last year it made it hard to make the playoffs but the key is he didn't waver from that plan. He didn't make rash moves, like dealing Drouin for a rental at the TDL. He was patient, and stuck to the plan. And it's benefiting him hugely right now. They are the best team in the league, a complete powerhouse, because he stuck to the plan and was patient.

Benning, meanwhile, has no plan. He's never had a plan. He is impatient. He makes moves off of impulse. Benning will say one thing, and then waver from it. The biggest example of this is the Gudbranson trade. Benning acted like Gudbranson would be a formative piece to our group, and then after only 18 months Gudbranson is well on his way to being out the door because it seems like he's nowhere near as good as Benning had thought. All he has is a general type of team he wants the Canucks to be: big bodies, fast, hard to play. That's all well and good, but what does that actually look like?What is our core, Jim? It changes every 5 minutes. First it's Sutter, now it's Dowd.

The truth of the matter is we don't have a core. Horvat, Boeser, Tanev is all the core we have, and Tanev doesn't really fit into our timeline. Horvat isn't a #1 C either, more of a good #2. We need a GM who has a plan. I want a GM who will be able to tell us right now, what our team will look like a year from now, two years from now, 5 years from now. And even more than that, we need a GM who will stick to the ****ing plan even when we're injured, even when there's setbacks.

I know right? This management group is so twitchy it makes me wonder how many dozens of cases of 5 hour energy and monster they drink everyday. They don't exhibit any long term vision, they do stupid things on the fly without forethought or plan, and they overreact to every little thing that they THINK is going wrong with big moves that only make the situation much worse.

Yzerman kept his gun hidden during the Drouin fiasco, then fired them when he thinks it's ready. Benning would've immediately traded Drouin for a 2nd round pick and said this is the best he could do. Guess what Jim? It's the losers who always whine about their "best", the winner go home and f*** the prom queen.
 
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