2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs Season Discussion - 49-26-7 105 pts

[Daisy Jane]

Meh, watching McDavid/Dahlin vs Matthews/Nylander/Marner in the next 10 cup finals would be good enough haha

but we're drafting Dahlin.

 

[garce]

Chia's in Edmonton. he'll trade one of them.

Chia will do what he did in Boston spend wildly, hope to win a Cup while the window is open, bask in his genius, and leave the cap mess for someone else to clean up.

 

[Timbits]

Coach likes 5 game segments so:

Jets - away
Rangers - home
Hawks - home
Devils - home
Habs - away

I'm seeing 6 points here - GO LEAFS GO

I'll see your six and raise you eight!
signed,
The Future

 

[HamiltonNHL]

well i hope management actually cares about every year. I respect what you are saying (and i agree with some of what you are saying) but this compartment thinking like "This year has to be like this, next year has to be like that." is very restricting and narrow. you should strive to do better every year, and make moves that help you move forward (and imo take advantages of certain aspects. )

I think this thinking is like you want your cake and want to eat it to.
I think teams go through a window where they can win.
Your way is the window can be open all the time.
I want to sacrifice the current to open up a brighter future.

 

[Diamond Joe Quimby]

I think this thinking is like you want your cake and want to eat it to.
I think teams go through a window where they can win.
Your way is the window can be open all the time.
I want to sacrifice the current to open up a brighter future.

I want it that way.

Tell me why....

 

[PromisedLand]

Agree completely. If we really think we can win the cup this year, OK go for it but screw this "own rental" in order to win a round or two stuff. The end goal is the cup and if we can't do it this year, I'd like to see us set the table for the future.

Bingo!

I personally do not see Leafs making much noise in the playoffs because of shoddy defense; bozak and jvr (last playoffs against caps was pretty meh) and freddie's struggles.

Ideal thing IMO is to get rid of bozak and jvr; for 3 to 4 attempts at the cup with competent roster instead of having a ONE GO at the cup this season; and then hoping something good shows up in the future.

Why hope to get lucky when you can work to get lucky?

Sosh is a Leo replacement; has a better shot and can skate; and is also known to play heavy.

Leivo in for jvr
Sosh in for leo
Kappy in for bozak (willy plays C)
GOAT/Alt in for Moore

Hainsey is gone in two years; better start planning for his replacement NOW don't wait for after two years. Whatever we get for bozak/jvr/leo will only help to make our position stronger in trade etc....

I don't see anybody in to replace Hainsey on the first paring (Zaitsev is fine as a 2nd pair not a first pair)

Liljegren would be eased in; Carrick is what he is....Borgman/Rosen have top 4 potential but might be hard pressed against oppositions' top lines.

Lets plan instead of hoping to get lucky

 

[zeke]

Bingo!

I personally do not see Leafs making much noise in the playoffs because of shoddy defense; bozak and jvr (last playoffs against caps was pretty meh) and freddie's struggles.

Ideal thing IMO is to get rid of bozak and jvr; for 3 to 4 attempts at the cup with competent roster instead of having a ONE GO at the cup this season; and then hoping something good shows up in the future.

Why hope to get lucky when you can work to get lucky?

Sosh is a Leo replacement; has a better shot and can skate; and is also known to play heavy.

Leivo in for jvr
Sosh in for leo
Kappy in for bozak (willy plays C)
GOAT/Alt in for Moore

Hainsey is gone in two years; better start planning for his replacement NOW don't wait for after two years. Whatever we get for bozak/jvr/leo will only help to make our position stronger in trade etc....

I don't see anybody in to replace Hainsey on the first paring (Zaitsev is fine as a 2nd pair not a first pair)

Liljegren would be eased in; Carrick is what he is....Borgman/Rosen have top 4 potential but might be hard pressed against oppositions' top lines.

Lets plan instead of hoping to get lucky

what teams are you guys so scared of that you don't think we have a solid chance to beat in a playoff series?

 

[garyturner3]

Bingo!

I personally do not see Leafs making much noise in the playoffs because of shoddy defense; bozak and jvr (last playoffs against caps was pretty meh) and freddie's struggles.

Ideal thing IMO is to get rid of bozak and jvr; for 3 to 4 attempts at the cup with competent roster instead of having a ONE GO at the cup this season; and then hoping something good shows up in the future.

Why hope to get lucky when you can work to get lucky?

Sosh is a Leo replacement; has a better shot and can skate; and is also known to play heavy.

Leivo in for jvr
Sosh in for leo
Kappy in for bozak (willy plays C)
GOAT/Alt in for Moore

Hainsey is gone in two years; better start planning for his replacement NOW don't wait for after two years. Whatever we get for bozak/jvr/leo will only help to make our position stronger in trade etc....

I don't see anybody in to replace Hainsey on the first paring (Zaitsev is fine as a 2nd pair not a first pair)

Liljegren would be eased in; Carrick is what he is....Borgman/Rosen have top 4 potential but might be hard pressed against oppositions' top lines.

Lets plan instead of hoping to get lucky

Completely agree. Too much worrying is happening from Leaf fans about going for the cup while they still can because once the big 3 have their new contracts kick in they'll be in a tough position. Yes there's going to be less money to go around after they all sign, but in reality the team's best shot at winning the cup is when the big 3 (and Rielly) hit their primes. That's not gonna be for at least 2 years. They should be planning for that timeframe for it all to come together IMO, not sacrificing the future for one run. Trading away Bozak and JVR is not going to doom them this season; they've got more than enough offense to still be a solid playoff team. Once you're in the playoffs anything can happen as we see every single year.

 

[PromisedLand]

what teams are you guys so scared of that you don't think we have a solid chance to beat in a playoff series?

Neutral ice becomes very small in the playoffs; and forecheck becomes HUGE part of the game. do you seriously believe that Leafs D can handle playoff hockey especially when some forwards do not back check?

And as per the teams:

1) Tampa
2) Ottawa (trapped system executed pretty well)
3) Pens (Crosby, Malkin, Kessel, Letang, Murray)
4) Caps are still pretty decent (Ovi, Backstrom, Holtby, Kuznetsov, Oshie)
5) Columbus is also pretty good; and the team built for playoffs (IMO)

 

[ToneDog]

Bingo!

I personally do not see Leafs making much noise in the playoffs because of shoddy defense; bozak and jvr (last playoffs against caps was pretty meh) and freddie's struggles.

Ideal thing IMO is to get rid of bozak and jvr; for 3 to 4 attempts at the cup with competent roster instead of having a ONE GO at the cup this season; and then hoping something good shows up in the future.

Why hope to get lucky when you can work to get lucky?

Sosh is a Leo replacement; has a better shot and can skate; and is also known to play heavy.

Leivo in for jvr
Sosh in for leo
Kappy in for bozak (willy plays C)
GOAT/Alt in for Moore

Hainsey is gone in two years; better start planning for his replacement NOW don't wait for after two years. Whatever we get for bozak/jvr/leo will only help to make our position stronger in trade etc....

I don't see anybody in to replace Hainsey on the first paring (Zaitsev is fine as a 2nd pair not a first pair)

Liljegren would be eased in; Carrick is what he is....Borgman/Rosen have top 4 potential but might be hard pressed against oppositions' top lines.

Lets plan instead of hoping to get lucky

Overall Tampa Bay is looking dominant right now and they would be tough to beat. With an addition or two Columbus is another threat. Same with Nashville.

 

[zeke]

Neutral ice becomes very small in the playoffs; and forecheck becomes HUGE part of the game. do you seriously believe that Leafs D can handle playoff hockey especially when some forwards do not back check?

And as per the teams:

1) Tampa
2) Ottawa (trapped system executed pretty well)
3) Pens (Crosby, Malkin, Kessel, Letang, Murray)
4) Caps are still pretty decent (Ovi, Backstrom, Holtby, Kuznetsov, Oshie)
5) Columbus is also pretty good; and the team built for playoffs (IMO)

the leafs' defense handled the caps just fine in the playoffs - and that was without hainsey and zaitsev in the lineup.

 

[PromisedLand]

Completely agree. Too much worrying is happening from Leaf fans about going for the cup while they still can because once the big 3 have their new contracts kick in they'll be in a tough position. Yes there's going to be less money to go around after they all sign, but in reality the team's best shot at winning the cup is when the big 3 (and Rielly) hit their primes. That's not gonna be for at least 2 years. They should be planning for that timeframe for it all to come together IMO, not sacrificing the future for one run. Trading away Bozak and JVR is not going to doom them this season; they've got more than enough offense to still be a solid playoff team. Once you're in the playoffs anything can happen as we see every single year.

Precisely! bozak and jvr are valued way too highly; people forget that they play in a sheltered role.

also, the idea is to become contender for long-term (get more chances for the shot at the cup(s)).

People forget that making the playoffs and having additional picks/prospects >>> making the playoffs with 3 UFAs walking. Gambling that leafs will go for a cup on the back of jvr/bozak is a HUGE gamble and a moronic one at that IMO

 

[PromisedLand]

the leafs' defense handled the caps just fine in the playoffs - and that was without hainsey and zaitsev in the lineup.

right.... that is why leafs made it to the 2nd round....



Do you really expect Leafs will be able to beat:

Eastern conference:
Ottawa, Tampa, Columbus, Pens, Caps

and then WCF winner
Nashville/Hawks/Kings/Ducks etc....

You are betting that Leafs have a legit chance at the cup given the current roster?

 

[Gary Nylund]

what teams are you guys so scared of that you don't think we have a solid chance to beat in a playoff series?

Who said anything about being scared? Speaking for myself, I'm not scared of anyone and I think we have a solid chance against anyone. Realistically though, there are teams that would be solid favourites against us so winning the cup is a long shot. I'd like to get to the point where we can realistically say that we have a solid chance at not just winning a series against whoever, but at winning it all.

 

[Gary Nylund]

right.... that is why leafs made it to the 2nd round....



Do you really expect Leafs will be able to beat:

Eastern conference:
Ottawa, Tampa, Columbus, Pens, Caps

and then WCF winner
Nashville/Hawks/Kings/Ducks etc....

You are betting that Leafs have a legit chance at the cup given the current roster?

Yeah winning the cup is hard! Zeke mentioned that we "handled" WSH but as you pointed out - we lost.

We're already good enough to compete with most teams but there are many teams who can say that. And perhaps our recent winning streak against weaker teams has made some people forget how we got our heads handed to us on the West Coast. People love to say that once you get in the playoffs, anything can happen but realistically, our chances of going out in the 1st round >>>>>>>>>>>>>> our chances of going all the way, JVR or no JVR.

We've made a lot of progress, but we still have a long way to go.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

We lost to Washington but it wasn't because our defense got exposed

 

[zeke]

Realistically though, there are teams that would be solid favourites against us .

a) such as?
b) are you suggesting the leafs should never go in on trying to win unless they are the consensus stanley cup favorite?

 

[WilliamInLondon]

regardless of where you guys stand on the contend-this-year vs. trade declining and expiring assets for younger, appreciating assets, it's such a refreshing breath of fresh air to even have this debate. Imagine 7 or 10 seasons ago and consider where the franchise is right now:

2017-2017 vs. 2007-2008
1) playoff bound team with discussion about potentially contending this season

vs.

perpetually rebuilding as a bottom feeding team

2) discussion about trading your pending UFAs for assets because you have high-end prospects that can step in right away AND have the potential exceed those departing

vs.

discussion about which prospects to recoup for your veterans because the cupboard is bare

3) having faith and confidence that management will make the right decision irrespective of whichever one they make; or at worst, not make a disastrous trade that would set the franchise back a half decade

vs.

freaking out about whatever assets your GM gets for their coveted veterans will either not be high end or will be dealt away for an inferior version of the veteran that he just traded away 4 months ago..

it's a really great and exciting time to be a Leafs fan right now

 

[Willchel Marlynder]

a) such as?
b) are you suggesting the leafs should never go in on trying to win unless they are the consensus stanley cup favorite?

Are you suggesting the Leafs have a good chance of winning the Stanley Cup? You’re dancing around saying it but if so may as well put it out there as if you’re right, it’ll be major bragging rights.

Gary brings up an excellent point. 4 games away we were coming back from getting demolished by the West. In fact, tank threads were being created. 4 wins against weaker teams is definitely better than loses, but we need to stay level headed.

 

[Drytoast]

what teams are you guys so scared of that you don't think we have a solid chance to beat in a playoff series?

Personally?

Ottawa, New Jersey, Tampa Bay, Pittsburgh (only because of the experience factor)

 

[Schooner]

well i hope management actually cares about every year. I respect what you are saying (and i agree with some of what you are saying) but this compartment thinking like "This year has to be like this, next year has to be like that." is very restricting and narrow. you should strive to do better every year, and make moves that help you move forward (and imo take advantages of certain aspects. )

Exactly, and especially the advantage of having the big 3 on ELCs for this year and next (minus Willy) is highly underestimated.

 

[garyturner3]

Precisely! bozak and jvr are valued way too highly; people forget that they play in a sheltered role.

also, the idea is to become contender for long-term (get more chances for the shot at the cup(s)).

People forget that making the playoffs and having additional picks/prospects >>> making the playoffs with 3 UFAs walking. Gambling that leafs will go for a cup on the back of jvr/bozak is a HUGE gamble and a moronic one at that IMO

Exactly. IF they won the cup this year then it's all worth it, but the chances are slim so why not build for when the cup chances are the highest is the way I look at it. Not to mention once they start having to pay these guys, they're going to need young talent flowing through the system so trading JVR/Bozak only helps with this. Trading these guys doesn't mean we're giving up, it's just smart asset management IMO. Not to mention if we're as deep as we keep saying we are, we shouldn't miss a beat. I didn't suffer through the last 20 years of mediocrity just so we can get impatient again. I want this done right in a way that gives us the best possible 5 year window of cup runs during Matthews' prime, not just one year. Letting JVR/Bozak walk for nothing this year most certainly does not accomplish that. If we don't win it this year, I'm fine with that.

 

[zeke]

Are you suggesting the Leafs have a good chance of winning the Stanley Cup? You’re dancing around saying it but if so may as well put it out there as if you’re right, it’ll be major bragging rights..

I think the Leafs are obviously a contender, yes.

 

[Kiwi]

We lost to Washington but it wasn't because our defense got exposed

Yeah we lost to them because they were better, straight up

 

[Gary Nylund]

a) such as?
b) are you suggesting the leafs should never go in on trying to win unless they are the consensus stanley cup favorite?

a)
Why do you ask? You're not suggesting no teams are a solid favourite against us are you?

b)
Nope, not suggesting that at all.