Prospect Info: 2017-18 Stockton Heat & Prospect Stats/Discussion (CHL, NCAA, Europe, AHL, ECHL)

Lunatik

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Oct 12, 2012
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I know you haven't been a Mangi fan since his draft year when this board was pumping his tires; but what he's done so far is pretty darn impressive all things considered, the guy was a walk-on for the Colts. Undrafted into the OHL. Year over year is mighty impressive too. Guy was an all-rookie OHL star; and considered one of the elites for his final two OHL seasons.

You add that to being a really good first year pro, and being downright dominant in year two is really positive. There's good reason to be excited about him too. He skates well, he thinks well, he strikes me as a guy built for this era of the NHL.

I mean, while you're right with your yearly comparisons; you can never know. Poirier looked like a sure-fire NHL'er until the liquor took over. You never know, and it's strange that a Flames fan is almost betting against Mangi to do well?
Where have I ever cheered against him or said it wasn't impressive? He has been impressive in the AHL. But lots of guys have been impressive in the AHL and done f*** all in the NHL. That's the point being made, but naturally you twist that to try and make a claim that I am cheering against a Flames player/prospect, something I have never done.
 

Ace Rimmer

Stoke me a clipper.
One thing being ignored in this conversation regarding Mangiapane, is him being a point per game, was only over 39 games. Yes, 46 in 39 is impressive for a 21 year old, but it only a little over half a season. While not quite a point per game, in his 21 year old season Shinkaruk put up really good numbers too, as did Emile Poirier. Honestly, with the hype about Mangiapaine among Flames fans, his size and skillset, reminds me of Dustin Boyd.
Reminds me more of Paul Byron / Martin St. Louis (smaller players) in the sense that he'll need another 3 or 4 years to blossom, and the Flames (among other teams) may give up on him at some point.
 

Sparky93

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Dec 30, 2010
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Reminds me more of Paul Byron / Martin St. Louis (smaller players) in the sense that he'll need another 3 or 4 years to blossom, and the Flames (among other teams) may give up on him at some point.
I was thinking a left handed Connor Brown
 

Volica

Papa Shango
May 15, 2012
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Where have I ever cheered against him or said it wasn't impressive? He has been impressive in the AHL. But lots of guys have been impressive in the AHL and done **** all in the NHL. That's the point being made, but naturally you twist that to try and make a claim that I am cheering against a Flames player/prospect, something I have never done.

Didn't say you were cheering against him; it's almost like you're betting against the guy, and have been for the last few years and it's weird. Like, I remember 3 years ago you were telling people how stupid they were for getting excited for his big year in the OHL. Not sure why he's drawn your ire, is it because other people are really excited about him?

Dunno about you, I'd rather have guys be overly impressive in the AHL than average, especially at 21 years old :huh:.

I don't agree with him being a surefire NHL'er either, but I think he has the tools to be a contributor to the NHL. No one's a sure fire NHL'er in terms of 20some year olds for the most part, but his progress is exciting.
 

Mr Snrub

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Oct 12, 2016
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I think Mangi's odds of being an NHLer have to be above 50 percent at this point, what with the way he's translated to the pros and the fact that he already has a handful of NHL games under his belt.

I do however think that given our depth at LW that he'll be traded by this team, and probably before he's really shown what he can do at the NHL level.
 
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Lunatik

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Oct 12, 2012
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Didn't say you were cheering against him; it's almost like you're betting against the guy, and have been for the last few years and it's weird. Like, I remember 3 years ago you were telling people how stupid they were for getting excited for his big year in the OHL. Not sure why he's drawn your ire, is it because other people are really excited about him?

Dunno about you, I'd rather have guys be overly impressive in the AHL than average, especially at 21 years old :huh:.

I don't agree with him being a surefire NHL'er either, but I think he has the tools to be a contributor to the NHL. No one's a sure fire NHL'er in terms of 20some year olds for the most part, but his progress is exciting.
Why do you always post shit like this? It's like you try and twist and manipulate everything I say and ignore what I actually said.

Saying that he's not a guarantee, is not betting against someone. I also called people stupid for calling Bennett a sure thing, Calling anyone a sure thing and over-hyping them is stupid. I have no issues with Mangiapane at all, I'm just not going to droop to my knees and praise him for 39 games at a point per game in the AHL.

Where did I suggest anywhere that worse is better? What's the point of this crap comment? Of course its better to be better. He was great in the AHL for sure this past season, but in his time in the NHL he looked overmatched and was not really impressive at all. Alot of guys that aren't ready for full-time NHL action come into the lineup in the NHL for a few games and while not impressive, they don't look out of place and those are often guys that never become anything (Shinkaruk, Poirier, Wotherspoon... etc all fit this description), so looking out of place, is a really bad sign. I'm not saying he won't make it, but he certainly has not shown he's ready during his time in the NHL.
 

Lunatik

Registered User
Oct 12, 2012
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do you guys have any expectations for Klimchuk anymore?
Some of us do and I think the Flames do. He was the only non-roster RFA named by the GM at the recent season ticket holders meetings as someone that will be back with the organization. Some of us feel his upside is a less offensive Michael Frolik
 

herashak

Registered User
Mar 24, 2013
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Klimchuk can play like Marleau, he’s never going to be that good but his AHL numbers should be better than they are
 

Lunatik

Registered User
Oct 12, 2012
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Out of all of Calgary's "overaged" prospects, I think he has the best hockey IQ of the bunch.

I still think he's got 2nd line potential as a very late bloomer - same path as Curtis Glencross.
I feel the same way, Glencross' trajectory of development is pretty accurate IMO. A Glencross trajectory with a Frolik style of game.

Another thing to point out, Klimmer has never been given much time in a scoring role due to a combination of his defensive ability and being a LW. IF the AHL tracked zone starts, you would see that Klimchuk would have Backlund-esque numbers in that area. Over the past 2 years, he's played all the tough defensive and PK minutes for the Heat.

I think Klimmer is NHL ready and IMO will be a more effective NHLer than Curtis Lazar.
 
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Volica

Papa Shango
May 15, 2012
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Nope. Maybe a 4th line/PK guy is the stars align.

As I see it too.
How in a supposedly deep 2013 draft, how did we only end up with one good player?

The offensive ability didn't translate from Junior. Could still carve out a role player type career in the NHL. I'd be happy if he carved out a Glencross type career. 26/27 year old late bloomers don't tend to be the case though.
 

Lunatik

Registered User
Oct 12, 2012
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As I see it too.
How in a supposedly deep 2013 draft, how did we only end up with one good player?

The offensive ability didn't translate from Junior. Could still carve out a role player type career in the NHL. I'd be happy if he carved out a Glencross type career. 26/27 year old late bloomers don't tend to be the case though.
Same could be said for many guys taken in that draft. It just simply never lived up to the hype, starting at #3 with Jonathan Drouin. Nichushkin (10) never accomplished much before defecting back to Russia. Samuel Morin (11) is still seen as a high potential guy, but still only has 3 games played. Pulock (15) has only played 84 games. Curtis Lazar (17), I don't think I need to add anything to his name :laugh:. Mirco Mueller (18) has only played 82 games. Kerby Rychel (19) is looking like a bust. Frederik Gauthier (21), also looks like a bust. Same with Poirier (22), Shinkaruk (24) and McCarron (25). All of whom went before Klimchuk.
 

Mr Snrub

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Same could be said for many guys taken in that draft. It just simply never lived up to the hype, starting at #3 with Jonathan Drouin. Nichushkin (10) never accomplished much before defecting back to Russia. Samuel Morin (11) is still seen as a high potential guy, but still only has 3 games played. Pulock (15) has only played 84 games. Curtis Lazar (17), I don't think I need to add anything to his name :laugh:. Mirco Mueller (18) has only played 82 games. Kerby Rychel (19) is looking like a bust. Frederik Gauthier (21), also looks like a bust. Same with Poirier (22), Shinkaruk (24) and McCarron (25). All of whom went before Klimchuk.

I'm kinda mad that I bought into the hype around that draft
 

Ace Rimmer

Stoke me a clipper.
I'm kinda mad that I bought into the hype around that draft
Was a weird draft in the sense you see guys in the 3rd round out-performing guys taken in the 2nd round. I think that was part of the issue, there was a huge plateau around say pick... 15-20? that carried right through to the 4th round.

That's often what the hype is caused by - firstly the guys at the top, and secondly the potential of guys outside the 1st round. Can't evaluate the latter part of that however as many of those are just starting to find their way.

Still disappointing the Flames have their mitts on 4 of the "bad" first round picks from that draft. (The third line winger we got is okay I suppose)
 

Calculon

unholy acting talent
Jan 20, 2006
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Pretty disappointing the Flames' management and scouting department bit so hard on the hype of that draft too. The top end has lived up to it but it dropped off in a big way after that.
 

Volica

Papa Shango
May 15, 2012
21,436
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Same could be said for many guys taken in that draft. It just simply never lived up to the hype, starting at #3 with Jonathan Drouin. Nichushkin (10) never accomplished much before defecting back to Russia. Samuel Morin (11) is still seen as a high potential guy, but still only has 3 games played. Pulock (15) has only played 84 games. Curtis Lazar (17), I don't think I need to add anything to his name :laugh:. Mirco Mueller (18) has only played 82 games. Kerby Rychel (19) is looking like a bust. Frederik Gauthier (21), also looks like a bust. Same with Poirier (22), Shinkaruk (24) and McCarron (25). All of whom went before Klimchuk.

It's crazy that this one was being compared to the 03 draft. That top 4 was especially dirty in terms of what the talent was (3 guys have more than lived up to it).
I think there's still some decent NHL'ers to carve out careers in that draft, but that 21-30... there's really only 2 full-timers on that list, then 1 part timer, then a lot of 'meh'. Sucks we couldn't have some of the better ones. That all being said, it's not even like there's elite talent in the top of the second round. The next huge player is at 66.
 

Mr Snrub

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Oct 12, 2016
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Imagine if Feaster had actually managed to swing our three firsts for MacKinnon...
 

Volica

Papa Shango
May 15, 2012
21,436
11,110
Pretty disappointing the Flames' management and scouting department bit so hard on the hype of that draft too. The top end has lived up to it but it dropped off in a big way after that.

We never know how these things pan out. Those Nyquist/Tatar rumours floating around out there would have been better than our return for Bouw (which was about as bad as it could have been all things considered); then again, who knows what kind of team we have now if that's the case.
 

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