Line Combos: 2017-18 Lineup

Sheppy

Registered User
Nov 23, 2011
56,923
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The Arctic
I wonder if you know trading in the NHL is vastly different than how it happens on your XBox.
I'm aware of that. Also, i don't really play video games.

That said, I think the last trade they made was to acquire Jimmy Hayes... They did absolutely jack shit at the Deadline last year and during free agency this year. You can't tell me there weren't players out there to fill the holes on the 3rd line.
 

PlayMakers

Moderator
Aug 9, 2004
25,221
25,085
Medfield, MA
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interesting. hey bill, check this out - not sure if anyone remembers this from last preseason (i barely do)....... heinen-backes-pastrnak:

http://www.weei.com/blogs/dj-bean/d...inen-produce-bruins-preseason-win-over-flyers

Forgot about that. It reminds me of the multi-point game Backes had against Columbus last year when he was centering Pasta and Marchand. That's a couple of big games. Ae the big numbers a function of him playing center or him playing with Pasta?
 

DKH

The Bergeron of HF
Feb 27, 2002
74,627
53,234
True.

I think it's fine to keep giving some of the unknowns rope and I expect they will, I'd just like to see more logical roster construction. We're stuck with Backes, but let's see him at center anchoring a 3rd line. And let's see some kids with certain skillsets playing together rather than guys like Beleskey and even Nash just thrown into the mix. They're paid for so I see the business argument, it's just unfortunate because it affects the lineup negatively.
I hear your frustration because we are likely in agreement at what's going to happen as the end result.

Beleskey to me 'knows' that these kids are not only here but coming along and he's got a coach who's going to go with said kids especially since he raised many of them

I would put it at 20% this ends well for him but I would give him an opportunity he's not that bad as portrayed

The best scenario is he picks it up and plays well, a team has injuries and Boston can deal him somehow

I wish him the best but Cehlarik and Heinen are steamrolling down the highway and DeBrusk and Vatrano are here and others like Gabrielle aren't far off

If only Sweeney had realized what the organization had drafted was that good
 

Oates2Neely

Registered User
Jan 19, 2010
19,581
13,906
Massachusetts
Every team has their Beleskey. It's up to the kids to force the teams hand to sit him.

Curious to see Backes at center. If it works I'd like to see 37 46 42 as the 3-top centers.

I'm liking the options for the lower lines. Schaller Kuraly Czarnik Acciari Cehlarik etc, all fairly young and seem eager to bring "it".

I still think a Trevor Daley type veteran dman should be added sometime around the holidays. Would help stabilize the 3rd pairing while adding another veteran presence to the blue line. I think McQuaid and Miller will find themselves in and out of the lineup due to injuries. I'd much rather see a McQuaid as the 7th dman as opposed to Postma.
 

PlayMakers

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Aug 9, 2004
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Austin Czarnik is everything I hate about the NHL today, a AHL/NHL tweener with no size, grit, guts, hitting skill or intimidation factor. It's nice that he is fast but he brings nothing else to the table at the NHL level. He will become the next koklachev, many of the small, speed and skill over size and toughness crowd will love him but the game has not changed that much that he brings anything of value to a fourth line, or a third line, if he had the aforementioned skill he would be a top 6 player, he isn't and I doubt at his age and size ever will be.

See, I don't get how you or anyone can know that at this point. He's barely played 50 games in the NHL. Lots of guys go through ups and downs when they come into the league. Who's to say he's not a Cam Atkinson-type? Atkinson was also an undersized forward who was a ppg player in college. He took two years to really establish himself in the league and even then he was just a 40 point player for two years. Now he's a legit top6 forward who scored 30 goals and 60 points last year.

I've seen Czarnik have some very strong games in the NHL. Yeah, he's a speedster and a playmaker, but he's also tenacious and not afraid to battle for pucks. I don't see him as a defensive liability, at least, not when he's on the wing.

Fwiw, I'm not all-in on the speed/skill bandwagon. I believe there's still a role for guys that bang and work the boards and front of the net. I also think the best lines are the balanced ones.

If they go with Cehlarik on the second line he needs to produce, some may have felt he "fit" with Krecji and Pastrnak last year but 2 assists in 11 games is not production you can have from a top six player and expect to win. If you are looking for that level of production Ryan White can contribute it.

Yet they went 8-3 with Cehlarik in the lineup last year, according to Cassidy. So maybe him producing isn't as important as what he does to create space or free up Krejci/Pasta. I don't know exactly what it was, but I do know those two have never played as well together as they did when Cehlarik played with them. At the time I remember saying I thought Cehlarik had elements of both their games. He could play fast off the rush and that meshed well with Pasta, but he could also work the boards and cycles which is what Krejci likes. Regardless, I do hope he produces. And I hope they try him there soon.

Vatrano has been ok and I like Kuraly but would really like a traditional fourth line RW with them.

As Dale Arnold would say, "I got no beef" with traditional 4th lines, IF that's what best fits the team's personnel and the team's needs. The 2011-13 Bruins had a great, traditional 4th line. Honestly, I think the SweeNeely believe in that kind of 4th line too, which is why we've seen them acquire guys like Rinaldo, Moore, Nash, Acciari and now White.

That said, I'm not so sure a traditional 4th line is what's best for this group of players or the franchise long-term. IMO, they need to figure out what they have in Vatrano and Czarnik. Vatrano can't be sent down without waivers and Czarnik is only 8 or 9 games away from losing waiver eligibility. I'd hate to lose them for nothing only to discover they're good players we could have got something for if we'd just been a little more patient. Is playing Tim Schaller going to do more for this franchise than finding out if Vatrano can be a consistent 20+ goal scorer? Or the draft pick a 20 goal scorer would return if we decided at the deadline to move him?

In a way, they tied their own hands by pushing DeBrusk and Bjork in camp the way they did. Vatrano and Czarnik had to play with the Szwarzes while D/B got to play with Bergeron, Marchand, Krejci and Pastrnak. It wouldn't surprise me if Czarnik had been given the same opportunity on Bergeron's wing we'd be all excited for him right now.

The third D pair just needs to be solid, for all the grief McQuaid takes the silence regarding Brandon Carlos play since the halfway point of last year has been stunning. I said at the time I move him for Landeskog, Carlo may never reach the potential he showed in the first 40 games last year, Landeskog is a legitimate top 6 forward who could slot in on the right of Bergeron or left of Krecji.

Fwiw, I've never felt Carlo is an untouchable. I like him a lot, but he's a defensive D and those types generally aren't untouchable. That said, I'm not a big fan of Landeskog and don't see the need to add another LH'd winger. I like Duchene more but they can't add a center without moving out Krejci and again, that's not really possible at this stage of his contract given the NMC doesn't go away until next year.

I still say, from what I have seen so far this year, they overvalued their prospects and are going to be paying for it for years to come, turning down trades and making bad free agent signings isn't going to make them contenders again anytime soon. Welcome to the mid 90's again, Ted Donato and Steve Hienze will lead us to glory.

I think you're jumping the gun. Folks said the same thing about Marchand after 20 games, and about Krejci too. They called Lucic a 4th liner, Torey Krug a PP specialist, Kevan Miller was hot garbage two years ago and everyone's favorite son last spring. A lot of players go through a bumpy, on-the-job-training phase as they transition from dominant AHL'ers to quality NHL'ers. Sometimes they pan out and sometimes they don't but I wouldn't want to cut bait until they have 100+ NHL games under their belt.
 

patty59

***************
Apr 6, 2008
18,632
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Lethbridge, Alberta
Have to say WTF took them so long to put Backes in at C? Insane that they resisted for so long to play the guy at his natural position. I'm also over the Kuraly experiment. Guy is an AHL player and nothing more.


No kidding, Krejci and Spooner out of the lineup and Tim Schaller is centering the 2nd line and Backes is 3rd line RW. Carziness
 
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NDiesel

Registered User
Mar 22, 2008
9,473
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Every team has their Beleskey. It's up to the kids to force the teams hand to sit him.

Curious to see Backes at center. If it works I'd like to see 37 46 42 as the 3-top centers.

I'm liking the options for the lower lines. Schaller Kuraly Czarnik Acciari Cehlarik etc, all fairly young and seem eager to bring "it".

I still think a Trevor Daley type veteran dman should be added sometime around the holidays. Would help stabilize the 3rd pairing while adding another veteran presence to the blue line. I think McQuaid and Miller will find themselves in and out of the lineup due to injuries. I'd much rather see a McQuaid as the 7th dman as opposed to Postma.
For what it's worth I have read that Muzzin/Martinez could be available for a top 9 upgrade on the Kings, would love either of those guys. It would all depend on who the Kings consider as an upgrade. Bruins have a lot of kids who look ready (as well as Spooner), but do the Kings take the risk?
 

PB37

Mr Selke
Oct 1, 2002
25,599
20,143
Maine
He's talking bottom 6 players, not top line players or first pairing defensemen. I would fill from Providence first myself.

We've collected plenty of bottom 6 players over the course of the past couple of seasons. The problem is that there's been under-performance mixed with non tempered expectations out of two of the players that should do well in that role with Spooner and Beleskey. Rinaldo flaked out. Moore did well for us last year. Drew Stafford was alright in his role, but he wasn't resigned ( and rightfully so, but he is having a nice bounce back year ). Schaller is proving to be a solid solider on the bottom 4. Nash has his warts but as a 4th line center, I think he's actually fine in that role.

The crux of the problem falls on Spooner and Beleskey ( you can lump Hayes in too ). If Hayes and Beleskey had 30-40 point seasons last year, which should have been what was expected considering past performance, that would have been the tertiary scoring we sorely needed. Hayes shit the bed and now is gone and Beleskey seems to be following suit. Spooner remains an enigma. These are all NHL level players who should have been fine on a third line playing behind better skilled players, but for whatever reason, they've been a problem.

It's easy for non management types to clear the board and slate clean and start over. But it doesn't work like that in positions where you make the time and investment, where you see the things that goes on outside of the ice, where you have to do the groundwork on acquiring players and deals falling thru. Spooner is a young player who came in at a time where other young, skilled players have been shipped out of Boston - there's a off record quote by him saying how they're tired of seeing their young talent around the league. They wanted to preach patience with him and give him time to work on his game and it's been a bag of mixed results. It's easy to say now that Beleskey and Hayes suck and shouldn't have been acquired, but both were coming in during the prime of their careers that were trending up. What they did last season combined was historically bad.

So in comes the problem coming into the year: Do you let another skilled, young player go in Spooner? What should be the expectations of him? He's on the third line but gets prime 1st line PP minutes because of his playmaking ability. He's shown he can get north of 40 points a year. He's not a traditional shutdown third line and shouldn't have to be with the way they trout Bergeron/Marchand out against the top competition. With Beleskey, a guy who seemed committed to turning his career around and coming back into camp in shape and hungry. So far, that hasn't worked out either. What team out there would want an expensive project? You either let him work it out, increasing his value to your team or on the trade block, or you cut the cord early and buy him out, getting a negative return in your investment.

I don't think the solution is to acquire more third line/fourth line players. We need to deal with our own collection first, both on the main club and on the farm. I think both Beleskey and Spooner won't be on the team next year, barring a rebirth as the season goes on. I think the teams wants to add in the younger talent to fill in the bottom 6 roles, but with that, comes the ying and yang of having a team filled with youngsters playing in roles they may not be ready for.

I see this year as Phase One of the youth movement for Sweeney's kids. We have a rookie playing on the first, second, and at times third and fourth lines. We have a rookie dman playing on the top pairing and a 2nd year guy playing on another pairing.

I think Phase Two will come with a culling. As long as they perform as expected, I think Cehlarik and Heinen will supplant Beleskey and Spooner full time next year, and will be flanking Backes on the third line. I think JFK has the smarts to play in the NHL right now, but after a full year in Providence, we'll see how well his game has translated to the pros. I think we'll see one of O'Gara, Lauzon, or Zboril on the team in a limited role next year as a bottom pairing guy or full time 7th.
 
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pemulis

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Jun 15, 2008
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All right I think I've got it.
If we could find the derivative of the rookies we could find the rate of change of improvement to see if their improvement will come early enough in the season to compensate for current defensive deficiencies.

Ha! Wouldn't that just be the tangent of the inflection point in the polynomial fit for their defensive improvement over time?
 
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TheReal13Linseman

Now accepting BitCoin
Oct 26, 2005
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We've collected plenty of bottom 6 players over the course of the past couple of seasons. The problem is that there's been under-performance mixed with non tempered expectations out of two of the players that should do well in that role with Spooner and Beleskey. Rinaldo flaked out. Moore did well for us last year. Drew Stafford was alright in his role, but he wasn't resigned ( and rightfully so, but he is having a nice bounce back year ). Schaller is proving to be a solid solider on the bottom 4. Nash has his warts but as a 4th line center, I think he's actually fine in that role.

The crux of the problem falls on Spooner and Beleskey ( you can lump Hayes in too ). If Hayes and Beleskey had 30-40 point seasons last year, which should have been what was expected considering past performance, that would have been the tertiary scoring we sorely needed. Hayes **** the bed and now is gone and Beleskey seems to be following suit. Spooner remains an enigma. These are all NHL level players who should have been fine on a third line playing behind better skilled players, but for whatever reason, they've been a problem.

It's easy for non management types to clear the board and slate clean and start over. But it doesn't work like that in positions where you make the time and investment, where you see the things that goes on outside of the ice, where you have to do the groundwork on acquiring players and deals falling thru. Spooner is a young player who came in at a time where other young, skilled players have been shipped out of Boston - there's a off record quote by him saying how they're tired of seeing their young talent around the league. They wanted to preach patience with him and give him time to work on his game and it's been a bag of mixed results. It's easy to say now that Beleskey and Hayes suck and shouldn't have been acquired, but both were coming in during the prime of their careers that were trending up. What they did last season combined was historically bad.

So in comes the problem coming into the year: Do you let another skilled, young player go in Spooner? What should be the expectations of him? He's on the third line but gets prime 1st line PP minutes because of his playmaking ability. He's shown he can get north of 40 points a year. He's not a traditional shutdown third line and shouldn't have to be with the way they trout Bergeron/Marchand out against the top competition. With Beleskey, a guy who seemed committed to turning his career around and coming back into camp in shape and hungry. So far, that hasn't worked out either. What team out there would want an expensive project? You either let him work it out, increasing his value to your team or on the trade block, or you cut the cord early and buy him out, getting a negative return in your investment.

I don't think the solution is to acquire more third line/fourth line players. We need to deal with our own collection first, both on the main club and on the farm. I think both Beleskey and Spooner won't be on the team next year, barring a rebirth as the season goes on. I think the teams wants to add in the younger talent to fill in the bottom 6 roles, but with that, comes the ying and yang of having a team filled with youngsters playing in roles they may not be ready for.

I see this year as Phase One of the youth movement for Sweeney's kids. We have a rookie playing on the first, second, and at times third and fourth lines. We have a rookie dman playing on the top pairing and a 2nd year guy playing on another pairing.

I think Phase Two will come with a culling. As long as they perform as expected, I think Cehlarik and Heinen will supplant Beleskey and Spooner full time next year, and will be flanking Backes on the third line. I think JFK has the smarts to play in the NHL right now, but after a full year in Providence, we'll see how well his game has translated to the pros. I think we'll see one of O'Gara, Lauzon, or Zboril on the team in a limited role next year as a bottom pairing guy or full time 7th.
Sorry, but no sale on the "both were acquired in their heyday and moving up" bit. SweeNeely own the Beleskey fiasco. They effed up. Multi millionaire GMs and Presidents need to take accountability for the present and future damage such moves create.
 

GloryDaze4877

Barely Irrelevant
Jun 27, 2006
44,395
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Sorry, but no sale on the "both were acquired in their heyday and moving up" bit. SweeNeely own the Beleskey fiasco. They effed up. Multi millionaire GMs and Presidents need to take accountability for the present and future damage such moves create.

Agreed on the accountability part. Curious what’s them being multi-millionaires (if they even are) has to do with anything? Wouldn’t the GM and Prez still need to be held accountable for their moves even if they donated their salaries to charity? :laugh:
 

Alan Ryan

Registered User
Jun 1, 2006
9,075
1,519
I hear your frustration because we are likely in agreement at what's going to happen as the end result.

Beleskey to me 'knows' that these kids are not only here but coming along and he's got a coach who's going to go with said kids especially since he raised many of them

I would put it at 20% this ends well for him but I would give him an opportunity he's not that bad as portrayed

The best scenario is he picks it up and plays well, a team has injuries and Boston can deal him somehow

I wish him the best but Cehlarik and Heinen are steamrolling down the highway and DeBrusk and Vatrano are here and others like Gabrielle aren't far off

If only Sweeney had realized what the organization had drafted was that good


Article detailing Beleskey's situation right now. Worth reading:

http://boston.cbslocal.com/2017/10/...udged-on-energy-provided-not-missing-offense/
 

Absurdity

light switch connoisseur
Jul 6, 2012
10,990
7,234
I'll be paying extra attention to the Backes line to see how well he does at center. Hopefully the Bruins can have him be their 3rd line center once Krejci gets healthy so the Bruins can actually start having a decent 3rd line again. It has been a long time coming, and the Bruins could use a dependable and effective 3rd line. I agree with many here as to looking at Providence for answers on the 3rd line, hopefully once Krejci comes back, and Backes settles in as the #3C.

FWIW, Bruins had a scout(s) at the Stars/Avs game last night.
 

Blowfish

Count down ...
Jan 13, 2005
22,971
15,068
Southwestern Ontario
Matt Kalman is the most underrated Hockey writer and often sees something others don't

Very good article

Much much better options available. Not sure I see where Beleskey has added any value to the bruins. I do like Matt K good hockey writer however don't buy Beleskey is adding value to the bruins other than taking up a roster spot.
 

PB37

Mr Selke
Oct 1, 2002
25,599
20,143
Maine
Sorry, but no sale on the "both were acquired in their heyday and moving up" bit. SweeNeely own the Beleskey fiasco. They effed up. Multi millionaire GMs and Presidents need to take accountability for the present and future damage such moves create.

You can't predict a guy that scored an average of 19 goals and 35 points in two seasons would follow it up with 3 goals and 8 points in his next 60 something games. To me, that's more on the player then anyone else.
 

bob27

Grzelcyk is a top pairing defenceman
Apr 2, 2015
3,332
1,426
You can't predict a guy that scored an average of 19 goals and 35 points in two seasons would follow it up with 3 goals and 8 points in his next 60 something games. To me, that's more on the player then anyone else.

There were plenty of people who did see that coming though.

http://pucksofafeather.com/2015/06/22/anaheim-ducks-should-not-overpay-matt-beleskey-let-him-walk/
https://www.cbssports.com/nhl/news/2015-nhl-free-agency-matt-beleskey-and-the-most-expensive-risks/
https://nesn.com/2015/05/ducks-matt-beleskey-a-risky-free-agent-despite-stellar-playoff-run/

Signing an UFA to a long term contract after a career year of unsustainably high shooting percentage is just asking for trouble. The best case scenario for Beleskey was that he would be slightly overpaid middle-6 player, good for 15ish goals per season. Bruins hit the worst case scenario with Beleskey, but even if Beleskey performed to his career average, he would have an awful contract. Right now it's just beyond awful.
 

PB37

Mr Selke
Oct 1, 2002
25,599
20,143
Maine
There were plenty of people who did see that coming though.

http://pucksofafeather.com/2015/06/22/anaheim-ducks-should-not-overpay-matt-beleskey-let-him-walk/
https://www.cbssports.com/nhl/news/2015-nhl-free-agency-matt-beleskey-and-the-most-expensive-risks/
https://nesn.com/2015/05/ducks-matt-beleskey-a-risky-free-agent-despite-stellar-playoff-run/

Signing an UFA to a long term contract after a career year of unsustainably high shooting percentage is just asking for trouble. The best case scenario for Beleskey was that he would be slightly overpaid middle-6 player, good for 15ish goals per season. Bruins hit the worst case scenario with Beleskey, but even if Beleskey performed to his career average, he would have an awful contract. Right now it's just beyond awful.

But we DID get the best case scenario with Beleskey; he scored 15 goals and a career high 37 points his first season here. I think he lead the team in hits that year. Then, in season 2, he came into camp out of shape and suffered a knee injury early in the year.
 

BruinDust

Registered User
Aug 2, 2005
24,662
22,506
There were plenty of people who did see that coming though.

http://pucksofafeather.com/2015/06/22/anaheim-ducks-should-not-overpay-matt-beleskey-let-him-walk/
https://www.cbssports.com/nhl/news/2015-nhl-free-agency-matt-beleskey-and-the-most-expensive-risks/
https://nesn.com/2015/05/ducks-matt-beleskey-a-risky-free-agent-despite-stellar-playoff-run/

Signing an UFA to a long term contract after a career year of unsustainably high shooting percentage is just asking for trouble. The best case scenario for Beleskey was that he would be slightly overpaid middle-6 player, good for 15ish goals per season. Bruins hit the worst case scenario with Beleskey, but even if Beleskey performed to his career average, he would have an awful contract. Right now it's just beyond awful.

Did anyone complain about Matt Belesky his first 60 games as a Bruin, when has averaged about half-a-point a game and lead the team in hits by a fairly wide margin?
 

GloryDaze4877

Barely Irrelevant
Jun 27, 2006
44,395
13,873
The Sticks (West MA)
Matt Kalman is the most underrated Hockey writer and often sees something others don't

Very good article

I’m with BF. I like Kalman, but he is definitely seeing something in Beleskey I don’t. Not like the B’s are going to be able to move him this year anyway, so moot point.

Unrelated, but I gave Kalman some crap on Twitter a couple of years ago over something stupid he tweeted during a game. It was pretty tame, but he still blocked me, lol. In addition to great vision, he must have thin skin? :laugh:
 

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