Proposal: 2016 Trade Rumours and Proposals Thread Part IV

[SixthSens]

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[FolignoQuantumLeap]

I know this was in the last thread but Wow at Hugo playing for the Kanata Blazers. The name Alfredsson on your jerset for Kanata's minor team, no pressure kid.

 

[Hutz]

I know this was in the last thread but Wow at Hugo playing for the Kanata Blazers. The name Alfredsson on your jerset for Kanata's minor team, no pressure kid.

I just looked him up on elite prospects and... did Daniel Alfredsson's little brother play for the 67s for a year??? I had no idea. I feel like I should have known and remembered that since I was going to a couple of games a year at that time.

 

[edguy]

I still think we should be doing everything we can to get Bishop back.. with Andys age he cant last much longer and we have no clear replacement in our system.
Unfortunately Doiron wont give up the assets for Bishop and i think Bishop will want too much money next year..

 

[jason2020]

I still think we should be doing everything we can to get Bishop back.. with Andys age he cant last much longer and we have no clear replacement in our system.
Unfortunately Doiron wont give up the assets for Bishop and i think Bishop will want too much money next year..

So if Tampa asked for

EK
White
Brown

You would do it.

 

[edguy]

So if Tampa asked for

EK
White
Brown

You would do it.

Okay lets be realistic..
Thats not what they going to ask for.. realistically theyll ask for something like White/Lazar+Hammond and picks..

 

[Hutz]

So if Tampa asked for

EK
White
Brown

You would do it.

I think you read "everything we can" way too literally. Obviously no one would make your proposed deal.

I do happen to agree with him, though, I was hoping we'd take a look at Andersen. With him gone, I think we should explore the Bishop option, although, I doubt it's a realistic option what with the contract he'll probably want. If Tampa lets other teams talk to Bishop at any point in time, though, I'd sure hope we inquire.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

So if Tampa asked for

EK
White
Brown

You would do it.

I didn't get that sense.

 

[Ouroboros]

So if Tampa asked for

EK
White
Brown

You would do it.

I'd give them even more.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

I'd give them even more.

Yo bro watch it!

 

[great1]

I still think we should be doing everything we can to get Bishop back.. with Andys age he cant last much longer and we have no clear replacement in our system.
Unfortunately Doiron wont give up the assets for Bishop and i think Bishop will want too much money next year..

I doubt Tampa makes the same mistake that Ottawa did and trades him within the division.

 

[guyzeur]

I still think we should be doing everything we can to get Bishop back.. with Andys age he cant last much longer and we have no clear replacement in our system.
Unfortunately Doiron wont give up the assets for Bishop and i think Bishop will want too much money next year..

Let's trade for Bishop (give assets) then loose him in one year cause we can't pay him...

Not sure why you would do that.

 

[2CHAINZ]

So if Tampa asked for

EK
White
Brown

You would do it.

I'd even give them Stone and Hoff too!

 

[Real Smart Sens Fan]

I doubt Tampa makes the same mistake that Ottawa did and trades him within the division.

This

 

[FolignoQuantumLeap]

I doubt Tampa makes the same mistake that Ottawa did and trades him within the division.

they're afraid of a goalie they want to dump in favour of Andrei Vasilevski.

Why would we trade anything for Bishop? We already have a better goaltender. If we wanted Bishop, we could just sign him next summer.

 

[edguy]

Let's trade for Bishop (give assets) then loose him in one year cause we can't pay him...

Not sure why you would do that.

Think you missed the last part saying he will want too much money next year, as another reason why Dorion wont do it.

 

[Xspyrit]

I doubt Tampa makes the same mistake that Ottawa did and trades him within the division.

Depends if you have Captain Hindsight on your side or not!

When Ottawa acquired Bishop, he was a 25 y/o goalie without much NHL experience. They only paid a 2nd to get him

1 year later, he had a bit more experience and then returned more in a 4th and a young promising player

He was 26 y/o and unestablished... he didn't have the greatest value back then and even now, he has value but is about to be UFA with a big cap hit, so it hurts his trade value

What the Sens have to do is trade for the next Bishop... or hope that Hogberg or O'Connor becomes good.

 

[great1]

they're afraid of a goalie they want to dump in favour of Andrei Vasilevski.

Why would we trade anything for Bishop? We already have a better goaltender. If we wanted Bishop, we could just sign him next summer.

Bishop was a Vezina Trophy finalist again this past season and had the 2nd best save percentage in the league. He isn't being dumped because he is a bad goalie, they are trading him because of the cap.

Which ever team trades for Ben Bishop will extend him before letting him walk away as a UFA. Philly fans were determined they wouldn't have to trade for Bobby Ryan because they could just sign him in the summer too, it doesn't really work that way.

We can't afford him with our internal budget anyways so it doesn't really matter.

 

[Knave]

Scheifele and MacKinnon sign deals a little over ~6M per year.

It's a really interesting market.

 

[FolignoQuantumLeap]

Bishop was a Vezina Trophy finalist again this past season and had the 2nd best save percentage in the league. He isn't being dumped because he is a bad goalie, they are trading him because of the cap.

Which ever team trades for Ben Bishop will extend him before letting him walk away as a UFA. Philly fans were determined they wouldn't have to trade for Bobby Ryan because they could just sign him in the summer too, it doesn't really work that way.

We can't afford him with our internal budget anyways so it doesn't really matter.

Bishop had a career year. We see this almost every year with goalies having big years they never follow up. Jose Theodore, Sergei Bobrovski, Jim Carey etc. Bishop isn't on the level of the regular cast of Vezina candidates like Lundqvist Quick, Price, and Rinne. He's just a good goalie.

They are dumping him for cap reasons but let's be real they're a cup contender and are serious about their goaltending situation so the ability of both goalies are very much being taken into consideration here.

Personally, I'd be really worried about Bishop going forward with all the injuries he picked up in key sitatuations and the state of goalie equipment going forward.

Bishop is just an incredibly overrated player in the Sens market.

 

[Uchiha]

Should've traded Andy

 

[Hale The Villain]

Should've traded Andy

That's what a smart GM would have done. Should have cashed in on Anderson's career year in 2013 and ran with a Bishop/Lehner tandem.

 

[danielpalfredsson]

The funny thing is EDM could have had Bishop had they not haggled over which 2nd round pick would be included in the trade. 20 spots in the draft cost them a shot at Bishop. Even worse, they never even used that pick. They traded down in the draft multiple times in a series of swaps that eventually culminated with them walking out of that draft with a paper clip. What would you prefer to have, Ben Bishop or a paper clip?

With that said, who knows how poorly Bishop might have further developed in Edmonton. Being developed in Edmonton almost cost Dubnyk his career. Since getting an opportunity on a team that isn't a tire fire, Dubnyk has proven to be a serviceable NHL starting goalie.

It is hard to hold the trade against Ottawa because I don't think a lot of teams anticipated Bishop becoming a Vezina contender. St.Louis ditched him for a second, Ottawa was ready to ditch him for the 36th pick to EDM, and EDM wasn't willing to part with an early 2nd for him, they wanted Ottawa to accept Anaheim's 2nd instead which was projected to be in the final 10 picks of the round. Had any of those three teams anticipated that Bishop would have reached the heights he has, they probably would have held on to him, or at least asked for more in return.

When it comes to Tampa, I don't know where they stood on Bishop, and where they stood on Conacher, and if they specifically were moving Conacher because they were sly and selling high on him, or if they thought they had something in Conacher but were being aggressive to get a young starting goalie. Remember, before going after Bishop Yzerman gave up a very big haul for Lindback. It consisted of the 37th, 50th, and 63rd picks over two drafts. Obviously, Lindback didn't work out, but what I am trying to illustrate is that he had been aggressive in the past when it came to giving up high value packages to try and solve his goaltending situation. If it is true that Bishop would have been an Oiler had they been willing to give up the higher of their two 2nd round picks (36th overall), that would point to Yzerman being unwilling to beat that trade offer. Which might mean that Yzerman wasn't the smartest guy in the room who swindled the Senators, he just lucked into getting a good deal on a player who exceeded expectations.

The Conacher for Bishop trade will take on mythical status as perhaps one of the worst trades the Senators have ever made. Should the regime be blamed for making the move? Maybe not. Just because the move is terrible in hindsight doesn't mean that it wasn't the right move at the time. Hindsight is the best GM but unfortunately, he isn't a real person so no one can hire him to run their team.

When you consider it as one of the worst Senators trade of all time, you have to consider that at worst the Senators gift wrapped the Lightning a cornerstone goalie in exchange for a hobbit on skates who was banished to play hockey in New Zealand or something after not being able to cut it on the AHL Sabres. While at best, Conacher's contributions helped Ottawa get enough points to not only make the playoffs but do it in the 7th seed where they matched up against Montreal which spawned the most memorable hockey line of all time...."no respeck".....in 30 years it'll be remembered up there with Bobby Orr's flying goal......just you watch.

 

[Real Smart Sens Fan]

The funny thing is EDM could have had Bishop had they not haggled over which 2nd round pick would be included in the trade. 20 spots in the draft cost them a shot at Bishop. Even worse, they never even used that pick. They traded down in the draft multiple times in a series of swaps that eventually culminated with them walking out of that draft with a paper clip. What would you prefer to have, Ben Bishop or a paper clip?

With that said, who knows how poorly Bishop might have further developed in Edmonton. Being developed in Edmonton almost cost Dubnyk his career. Since getting an opportunity on a team that isn't a tire fire, Dubnyk has proven to be a serviceable NHL starting goalie.

It is hard to hold the trade against Ottawa because I don't think a lot of teams anticipated Bishop becoming a Vezina contender. St.Louis ditched him for a second, Ottawa was ready to ditch him for the 36th pick to EDM, and EDM wasn't willing to part with an early 2nd for him, they wanted Ottawa to accept Anaheim's 2nd instead which was projected to be in the final 10 picks of the round. Had any of those three teams anticipated that Bishop would have reached the heights he has, they probably would have held on to him, or at least asked for more in return.

When it comes to Tampa, I don't know where they stood on Bishop, and where they stood on Conacher, and if they specifically were moving Conacher because they were sly and selling high on him, or if they thought they had something in Conacher but were being aggressive to get a young starting goalie. Remember, before going after Bishop Yzerman gave up a very big haul for Lindback. It consisted of the 37th, 50th, and 63rd picks over two drafts. Obviously, Lindback didn't work out, but what I am trying to illustrate is that he had been aggressive in the past when it came to giving up high value packages to try and solve his goaltending situation. If it is true that Bishop would have been an Oiler had they been willing to give up the higher of their two 2nd round picks (36th overall), that would point to Yzerman being unwilling to beat that trade offer. Which might mean that Yzerman wasn't the smartest guy in the room who swindled the Senators, he just lucked into getting a good deal on a player who exceeded expectations.

The Conacher for Bishop trade will take on mythical status as perhaps one of the worst trades the Senators have ever made. Should the regime be blamed for making the move? Maybe not. Just because the move is terrible in hindsight doesn't mean that it wasn't the right move at the time. Hindsight is the best GM but unfortunately, he isn't a real person so no one can hire him to run their team.

When you consider it as one of the worst Senators trade of all time, you have to consider that at worst the Senators gift wrapped the Lightning a cornerstone goalie in exchange for a hobbit on skates who was banished to play hockey in New Zealand or something after not being able to cut it on the AHL Sabres. While at best, Conacher's contributions helped Ottawa get enough points to not only make the playoffs but do it in the 7th seed where they matched up against Montreal which spawned the most memorable hockey line of all time...."no respeck".....in 30 years it'll be remembered up there with Bobby Orr's flying goal......just you watch.

From what I've heard, the Sens had the option of 2nd + 4th or Conacher + 4th. Murray didnt know Conacher at all as a player (as in, had heard of him succeeding but had only seen him play once or twice and had no strong opinions on him), and Murray wanted to take the picks. A member of the staff (not Dorion) was high on Conacher and convinced Murray to pick him up instead.

A 2nd would have been better than Conacher, but its not a big deal. C'est la vie.

 

[Tuna99]

From what I've heard, the Sens had the option of 2nd + 4th or Conacher + 4th. Murray didnt know Conacher at all as a player (as in, had heard of him succeeding but had only seen him play once or twice and had no strong opinions on him), and Murray wanted to take the picks. A member of the staff (not Dorion) was high on Conacher and convinced Murray to pick him up instead.

A 2nd would have been better than Conacher, but its not a big deal. C'est la vie.

Murray lost a lot of trades near the end, this one and the Spezza trade could of been huge wins for the franchise - we literally have no one to show on our team for a point a game Center who's a great teammate and a Vezina finalist and a great teammate.

This is why Tampa is good (win on the St Louis trade and Bishop trade) and we lost the Spezza and Bishop trade. We outright win those 2 trade sand the franchise is in a completely different place - just like Tampa is.