Prospect Info: 2016-17 Rangers Prospects Thread (Stats/Info/Links in Post #1; Updated 10.27.16)

[Beacon]

What.On.Earth.Are.You.Talking.About?.

How does "he's not coming here to play in the A let him develop In Russia" translate to "he's afraid to come here?"

Explain what else could it mean then.

"He's not coming to play in the A let him develop in Russia" means what exactly? Would you say, "he's not coming to play in the Chelsea Piers"? No, because it's not an option, correct? So to say "he's not coming to play in the A" means that were he to come here, he'd play in the AHL or at least there's a reasonable possibility of such. This is furthered by your next statement, "let him develop in Russia" which implies that his options next season are the AHL or the KHL.

If you thought he's capable of playing in the NHL next season, you would not write, "he's not coming here to play in the A, he needs to develop in Russia." The AHL would not be an option anymore than the Chelsea Piers is an option.

 

[Kovalev27]

Are you still at it? Jesus

He's not coming here to play in the A let him develop In Russia means exactly what it says.

He's a 20 years old Russian prospect we have two NHL goalies. Why would he come here to play in the ahl when the khl is the better league and he just signed a two year deal? It's not even an option

What part of that has anything to do with the kid being afraid of anything?

If he's signed even with an escape clause (which most Russian players don't have) it would be to the NHL not the ahl. So the ahl wouldn't even be an option.
His option next year is the khl and the khl. We can't bring him over early and if we did it would be to play in the NHL which would be silly behind hank playing 60 games and like I said HES NOT COMING HERE TO PLAY IN THE A.

What the hell are you even arguing about? If I thought the kid was afraid of playing in the A I'd have said that.

You sound like a crazy person right now. Go to lunch or have a cigarette something.

 

[Beacon]

Are you still at it? Jesus

He's not coming here to play in the A let him develop In Russia means exactly what it says.

He's a 20 years old Russian prospect we have two NHL goalies. Why would he come here to play in the ahl when the khl is the better league and he just signed a two year deal?

Ok, so to be clear, just a yes or a no please, you DID imply that based on his ability, if he were to come here, he'd play in the AHL, correct? What I mean is not what he'll actually do, but where his skill level is. You implied that if he's in North America, his ability will be good enough for the AHL, but not for the NHL, correct? And because he's only good enough for the AHL (but not good enough for the NHL), he might as well stay in the KHL, correct?

My response to that was that if he were to come here next season, he would NOT play in the AHL, he'd be in the NHL because he'll be good enough to be an NHL backup next season.

 

[Kovalev27]

No no and no we would not be bringing him over until we felt he was ready for the NHL. Which he is not. Let him develop In Russia for the next two years bring him when he's fully ready to perhaps split time with hank.

Same as Buchnevich we would not have brought him here to be an ahler first.

Khl is the better league.

There is also no out clause to the NHL for these kids so couldn't even bring him over if we wanted too

Now would you please stop arguing with me I don't know how to argue with someone when I agree with them Jesus

 

[Beacon]

No no and no we would not be bringing him over until we felt he was ready for the NHL.

We are having 2 different conversations here. Focus on what I'm asking please.

I'm not saying what he will actually do. I'm talking about his ability/skill.

You remember, "if-then" logic problems in school? For ex., "if I jump out the window, then I will fall down because I can't fly" does not mean I will jump out the window, it just means that I can't fly.

So focus for one minute here: imagine there's a universe where Shesterkin is playing in North America. Imagine the KHL is not an option. Imagine his only 2 options are the NHL and the AHL. Where does he play based on his ability/skill in 2017-18? You seem to imply that he's not good enough to play in the NHL and if he comes to North America, he'll be in the AHL. That doesn't mean that he actually will come to North America. I'm asking an "if-then" question. If he were here, would he play in the AHL or the NHL next season?

Again: if Shesterkin had only 2 options in 2017-18 and they were the AHL and the NHL, do you believe he'll be in the AHL or the NHL?

 

[Levitate]

Why exactly are you digging at this question other than spoiling for an argument?

You didn't ask me but realistically Raanta is signed through 2018 so in this hypothetical scenario that will never happen I'd actually expect Shestyrkn to start in the AHL and dominate and for things to progress from there. A lot of that is just because of the current roster makeup, not skill level.

But who cares? At this point he's never played a full season in the KHL, he's not even his teams starter, let's just care about him getting games and establishing himself there and then we'll worry about when he comes over. I don't think he'll ever end up playing in the AHL but there's not much point in worrying about it anyways since he won't be over for years.

 

[Kovalev27]

Seriously beacon what the hell are you talking about? I've based my posts on actual real life your post is NOW based on a complete hypothetical which has nothing to do with the original comments you flipped out about.

Do I think he's good enough to split time with hank at 20 years old when he's not even had a year of being a KHL number one? No no I don't.

If he were a 20 year old American or Canadian prospect he'd be in the Ahl. Not sure how anyone would argue that.

But he's not he's a 20 year old Russian prospect gets the opportunity to play in the khl and develop over the next two years until he's ready for the NHL.

Like I said he's not coming here to play in the A let him develop in Russia. Which was the original comment you lost your pants over. Now youre just being absurd man. Move on

 

[Kovalev27]

Why exactly are you digging at this question other than spoiling for an argument?

You didn't ask me but realistically Raanta is signed through 2018 so in this hypothetical scenario that will never happen I'd actually expect Shestyrkn to start in the AHL and dominate and for things to progress from there. A lot of that is just because of the current roster makeup, not skill level.

But who cares? At this point he's never played a full season in the KHL, he's not even his teams starter, let's just care about him getting games and establishing himself there and then we'll worry about when he comes over. I don't think he'll ever end up playing in the AHL but there's not much point in worrying about it anyways since he won't be over for years.

He's not For some reason he's digging for an argument with me though over the same thing. Very odd

 

[Levitate]

I think the argument would be "he's posting fantastic numbers in the second best league in the world on a team that's NHL caliber against other teams that are close to NHL caliber, why wouldn't be good enough to be a backup in the NHL?"

Which to me is still a pointless argument for all reasons stated, but another one is that there's still some adjustment to the different sized rinks that he would have to take into account. Outright skill wise he's probably good enough to get games in the NHL but a transition period at this point might also be needed. But again, it's all theoretical arguing.

 

[Beacon]

Seriously beacon what the hell are you talking about? I've based my posts on actual real life your post is NOW based on a complete hypothetical

Because I kept on pointing out that I'm talking about his skill, and you kept talking about what he'll actually do. These are 2 different things. So I was trying to drive a point by asking what would happen if the KHL was not an option.

Again, let me ask this one more time: where is Sheterkin's skill level: is it on par with AHLers or NHL backups? Why is this question so difficult to answer?

If he were a 20 year old American or Canadian prospect he'd be in the Ahl. Not sure how anyone would argue that.

So I take it to mean that you see him as being on par with AHL players in terms of ability. My point is that he's not. He'll be able to be an NHL backup next season. Therefore, if he has an NHL escape clause, he could come here next season, be Hank's backup immediately. The Rangers can figure out what to do with Raanta, it's not a big deal to trade him somewhere for future considerations.

That's the point that I was driving at. He can come next season if he wants to play in the NHL because he'll be good enough to play in the NHL. I would bet good money that if Raanta and Shesterkin played for the same team next season, Shesterkin would put up better numbers.

 

[Kovalev27]

Which again has nothing to do with the original comments you flipped out about. You've changed the conversation you realize?

But having said that I'll bite

This kid Has barely played pro at this point he spent a ton of time in Russian juniors last year. You're telling me he's as good as NHL backups right now? At 20 years old you consider him good enough to be backing up nhl starters based on playing for an absolute powerhouse Russian team.

He's a great PROSPECT but no I do not think he's NHL ready as of right now. if he came over TODAY and or if he were an NA kid he'd be going to the AHL. Nothing wrong with that doesn't mean he doesn't have the skills to be a great nhler but you are pushing it big time right now.

Not many great 20 year old goalies can just step into the NHL and play well that's just silly.

 

[Kovalev27]

Remember the original freak out you had was over me saying he's not coming here to play in the A let him develop In Russia. Then you went on a tirade about the KHl being the better league and how I must have been implying he was afraid of coming here. Made no sense. So as you can see you've started a whole new convo which is fine but calm yourself.

 

[Beacon]

Which again has nothing to do with the original comments you flipped out about.

It has everything to do with it. You implied in the original post and confirmed just now that you think he's an AHL-level player who would be in Hartford if he were a North American, so he might as well stay in the KHL.

My "flip out", as you describe it, was that the KHL is a significantly better league than the AHL, and if he can put up crazy numbers in Russia, there's no reason to think he'll be playing in the AHL next season if he decides to use his NHL escape clause.

The point I kept on making that you REFUSE to understand is that he'll be in the NHL next season if he comes here, not in the AHL. He won't be playing in Hartford anymore than he'll be playing in the Chelsea Piers.

Every word you wrote here is based on the assumption that Shesterkin's ability level is that of an AHL level, which explains why you want him to stay in the KHL. You, in fact, repeated this again and again. You just can't allow yourself to understand that I'm suggesting here that he'll have NHL-level ability by 2017 and if he has an escape clause, he should use it because no, if he comes here, he won't be in Hartford, he'll be in the Garden.

 

[Kovalev27]

Oye

He's not coming here next year. First off again try more reality and less hypotheticals.

Secondly We have a back up signed thru next year.

Third he's under contract to SKA for 2 more years. There is no out clause. For rookie khlers to come to the NHL. Do your homework.

He's not coming here to play in the A (again my original statement) he'll come here when we and he think he's ready to play in the NHL.

He is just starting his first full PRO season you think if he was here he'd be in the NHL? You're nuts he'd be in the AHL, Like every other top first year pro goalie. He would not be in the NHL you are flat out dreaming there. hes not even the clear number one right now. Why are you so adamant about this with zero precedent to support your claims?

What 20 year old with half a year as a back up in the pros steps into the NHL?

You're being ridiculous. You've been looking for an argument here all day and it's just taking you further from a reasonable thought. Enough already.

 

[Irishguy42]

Omg ladies please, you're both pretty.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

I think the argument would be "he's posting fantastic numbers in the second best league in the world on a team that's NHL caliber against other teams that are close to NHL caliber, why wouldn't be good enough to be a backup in the NHL?"

Which to me is still a pointless argument for all reasons stated, but another one is that there's still some adjustment to the different sized rinks that he would have to take into account. Outright skill wise he's probably good enough to get games in the NHL but a transition period at this point might also be needed. But again, it's all theoretical arguing.

I remember people saying that Lundqvist had to adjust to a different sized rink. ThE NHL rink didn't seem to bother him.

 

[Levitate]

I remember people saying that Lundqvist had to adjust to a different sized rink. ThE NHL rink didn't seem to bother him.

Lundqvist was also like 3 years older and had several seasons of being the top goaltender in the league, completely dominating it and leading his team to a championship

Shestyorkin is in his first season in the big leagues and isn't the clear cut starter.

When Shestyorkin comes over around the age of 23 I think he'll go directly to playing in the NHL

 

[Beacon]

Can you confirm that he doesn't have an NHL escape clause? Is there a source for it? Serious question.

Shesterkin played a total of 40 KHL games so far in his career. He'll play another 15 or so this season. That's 55 games. On top of that he absolutely abused the VHL, which should be a good league based on the salaries there (higher than AHL salaries) and the fact that it's KHL's top level minor league. He got 1.19 and .954 in the VHL. That's about 88 pro games. He likewise was very good in the WJC and WC-18 against the best teens in the world. We are not talking about some kid whose only experience is playing in the OHL.

Martin Biron, for instance, made the NHL when he played about the same number of games in the AHL/ECHL as Shesterkin will have played by the end of this season in the KHL/VHL. John Vanbiesbrouck played only 36 minor league games. Richter only played 70 IHL games before making the Rangers. Cloutier played 84 AHL games before making the NHL. Glenn Healy played 90 AHL games. Hank played 154 games in the SEL, but the last 44 happened only because there was an NHL lockout.

I'm not picking out special, unrepresentative examples. I just looked up our recent goalies who had at least a few seasons as starters. By the end of his season, Shesterkin will be similar to other goalies. By the end of next season, he'll have more experience than other talented guys had at lower pro levels.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

I think let him develop this season and next season in the KHL, try to get him over to the NHL to be Hank's back up for the 2018-2019 season.

 

[eco's bones]

I don't look at the KHL as a better league than the AHL. I do look at it as a better league for young Russian players to develop in--but for young Canadians and Americans the AHL is the better league to develop in. Setting aside the top 3-4 KHL teams most of the personnel on an average to good KHL team I suspect would have a very difficult time in the AHL. KHL rosters are dotted with former NHL'ers who have gone past their sell by date and AHL'ers who could never quite make the grade and they make up a healthy % of that league's better players. What fills out their rosters are good players but for the most part they're not AHL quality players and there are lot of players in their mid and upper 30's. The AHL has limits on the number of older veterans that any team can carry. One can just go over to Elite Prospects and look down the rosters team by team--the ages and size of the players and just start subtracting players as possibilities. Buchnevich really was like the only guy on the entire Cherepovets team last year who had any legit shot of becoming an NHL player some day.

I have no problem with Buchnevich or Shestyorkin sticking around in that league until they're ready but if someone like Ryan Graves would have tried his luck there instead of in Hartford I would not have been happy.

 

[Beacon]

1WorldSport Channel they're replaying yesterday's SKA game in case someone wants to watch Shesterkin. It's on Channel 97/597 on FIOS, not sure about other services.

 

[ManUtdTobbe]

Doubt he has an out clause since the KHL and NHL doesn't have a working agreement. I'm sure some players have negotiated out clauses with their clubs but they are far from standard.

 

[Revel]

Reunanen with no points again today. He has like 5 points (all assists) in 16 or 17 games. I really was hoping for more out of him in Mestis.

 

[haveandare]

I think let him develop this season and next season in the KHL, try to get him over to the NHL to be Hank's back up for the 2018-2019 season.

Yeah I think this is the best timeline assuming he can wiggle out of that last year of his deal.

 

[Brooklyn Rangers Fan]

Reunanen with no points again today. He has like 5 points (all assists) in 16 or 17 games. I really was hoping for more out of him in Mestis.

I'd love to see him doing more on the scoreboard, but as I said in the prospect voting threads, after a year lost to a major injury, I give him a year+ to catch back up to his peers.