WC: 2015 — Team Slovakia

Status
Not open for further replies.

Dotaz

JUST DIPSY DOODLE IT
May 2, 2014
59
0
Poprad, Slovakia
It's part of the coach's job to influence the players' mentality so that the players stick to the game plan. If you can't do that, make room for a different coach and let him try.

In that case the best solution would be one coach for one, two seasons maximum:laugh: To me, it often seems that our players simply stop to follow coach tactics over time and switch to - I will play whatever I want...Like they always stop to respect coach authority over time...
 

Faterson

Delayed Live forever
Sponsor
Sep 18, 2012
3,672
1,510
Bratislava
In that case the best solution would be one coach for one, two seasons maximum:laugh:

That's up to the discretion of those who hire the coaches: general managers in club hockey, national federations in international hockey. Edmonton has been collecting overall no. 1 draft picks, but their results are still terrible, and they have had something like 5 different coaches in 5 seasons. They may now hire Babcock you just mentioned as a joke, but it's anyone's guess whether they'd stick with Babcock beyond a season or two if the team's results don't improve despite having just collected yet another overall no. 1 draft pick. The team clearly has better players on its roster than its results indicate, and whenever that happens, the coach is, quite naturally, the first person to be blamed. I believe the same can be argued about Team Slovakia. The players it had on its roster in Sochi, or that it has on its roster now at the Worlds, should have brought better results (particularly in games against the likes of Slovenia and Denmark).
 

QnebO

Wheel, snipe, celly
Feb 11, 2010
9,763
644
If you beat USA, you easily deserve the QF place. USA is not even as good team as Russia, which you almost beat. And you challenged us offensively as well. They've took couple of big wins but it means nothing when its the game time against you.

Finland beats Belarus, you beat the yanks, then knowing that Belarus has too much pressure against Norway and chockes. Plausible. Belarus ain't even that much better team than Norway.

Just focus getting that one god damn win on USA.

https://youtu.be/vwpTj_Z9v-c?t=1m59s
 

Karlsson2Turris*

Guest
What happened to Slovakia hockey? They used to be a perennial top 8 team that could keep pace with the top 5 (like the Czech). Now they're nearing Latvia level...
 

QnebO

Wheel, snipe, celly
Feb 11, 2010
9,763
644
What happened to Slovakia hockey? They used to be a perennial top 8 team that could keep pace with the top 5 (like the Czech). Now they're nearing Latvia level...

I think their Junior system blows, like Finland's did earlier, as did Sweden even earlier.. Sweden refreshed its system and has amazing results. Finland did the same about 6-7 years ago and it starts to pay off here too.. Actually it has already, we have at least started to produce some talent again. We had many years without any legit, even late 1st round prospects outside few solid goalies, but forwards or even Dmen, not any in almost 10 years. Slovakia needs to see what they can do to it and copy the system, specially copy Sweden..
 

slovakiasnextone

Registered User
Jul 7, 2008
5,741
254
Slovakia
What happened to Slovakia hockey? They used to be a perennial top 8 team that could keep pace with the top 5 (like the Czech). Now they're nearing Latvia level...

Incompetence.

Also, we were never quite as good as the Czech because of the depth they had and are you actually saying that the Czechs don't belong into the top 6? :huh:
 

slovakiasnextone

Registered User
Jul 7, 2008
5,741
254
Slovakia
I think their Junior system blows, like Finland's did earlier, as did Sweden even earlier.. Sweden refreshed its system and has amazing results. Finland did the same about 6-7 years ago and it starts to pay off here too.. Actually it has already, we have at least started to produce some talent again. Slovakia needs to see what they can do to it and copy the system, specially copy Sweden..

Who's gonna pay for that though?
 

QnebO

Wheel, snipe, celly
Feb 11, 2010
9,763
644
Who's gonna pay for that though?

I don't know if its even about money. I just know they've changed the way they train Juniors. I think the main thing is basic skills of hockey like puck handling and shot, and favouring the clearly talented kids more, starting to give uneven ice time earlier ect..

Not sure if it takes money and how much. No idea..

In Slovakias situation, support kids to find places from foreign leagues, and also try to work on having high level teams in your country that could take best kids, play it in KHL or Czech league, or boost your own league somehow (that is the thing that would take most money though.).
 

BlitzSnipe

Registered User
Dec 28, 2014
2,385
180
Slovakia - your team played very well today. As a supporter of the Russian team I was quite worried that Slovakia might take the game. You guys have a good team, respect.
 

slovakiasnextone

Registered User
Jul 7, 2008
5,741
254
Slovakia
I don't know if its even about money. I just know they've changed the way they train Juniors. I think the main thing is basic skills of hockey like puck handling and shot, and favouring the clearly talented kids more, starting to give uneven ice time earlier ect..

Not sure if it takes money and how much. No idea..

In Slovakias situation, support kids to find places from foreign leagues, and also try to work on having high level teams in your country that could take best kids, play it in KHL or Czech league
, or boost your own league somehow (that is the thing that would take most money though.).

The hockey academies that are the base of the change in Swedish hockey do cost a whole load of money that Slovakia doesn't have.

Sorry, but the bolded part is actually probably one of the worst ideas I've ever read that would likely rather hurt Slovak hockey than help it. There's plenty of our young players in better hockey countries, mainly in the Czech republic but lately also in Sweden, which is good for the individual players but in fact it deflates the level of competition in the leagues - together with the u18 and u20 projects, having top teams play outside of the country would make it even worse, just let's look at Slovan. Other than the benefit for the fans who could watch KHL games, it only made the Slovak league even worse and did absolutely nothing for Slovak hockey. There were even some players like Bliznak who were good on the NT when they played in lesser leagues before they went to Slovan.

We will see what will happen this June after the elections. Funnily enough Lintner and co. want to go the second route you have mentioned and they don't seem to think it would be the most expensive one. Quite the oppoiste actually, because they think that with improved marketing they can get more Slovak companies to sponsor the league and the sport as a whole.
 

QnebO

Wheel, snipe, celly
Feb 11, 2010
9,763
644
The thing is, if you can't improve your own leagues, how do the top kids good enough competition when young, pre draft age? They need the competition, it's more important to get few players "trough" than keep them home helping others by boosting the own league / junior league. Well, just my 2cents. Decisions like this take good strategist. But keeping kids home works better if your own league is very competitive.

According to what you say, seems like Slovak federational guys believe they can improve their own league.. which would be the best choise.. if they just can..
 

slovakiasnextone

Registered User
Jul 7, 2008
5,741
254
Slovakia
The thing is, if you can't improve your own leagues, how do the top kids good enough competition when young, pre draft age? They need the competition, it's more important to get few players "trough" than keep them home helping others by boosting the own league / junior league. Well, just my 2cents. Decisions like this take good strategist. But keeping kids home works better if your own league is very competitive.

According to what you say, seems like Slovak federational guys believe they can improve their own league.. which would be the best choise.. if they just can..


Of course, but as I said it's not like it isn't happening already, so no need to change anything there.

Actually they aren't the federational guys...yet...chances are they will never be.

I suppose it will sound really ***** up to an outsider, but the people who decide in those elections might just keep the current good for nothing leadership in.
 

jcbio11

Registered User
Aug 17, 2008
2,829
516
Bratislava
Well this thread is once again a ray of sunshine. :sarcasm:

There's lots of positives in Slovak hockey, but that never gets brought up. It's all blah blah federation, incompetence, not enough money.
 

peto10

Registered User
Sep 29, 2011
526
253
Slovakia
Well this thread is once again a ray of sunshine. :sarcasm:

There's lots of positives in Slovak hockey, but that never gets brought up. It's all blah blah federation, incompetence, not enough money.

Can you tell me some positives? I'm having a hard time coming up with more than 2 :laugh:
 

begbeee

Registered User
Oct 16, 2009
4,158
31
Slovakia
I think U20 team in domestic league is a great project which brought up some good results.
In some point there will be generation change in federation - sooner or later, probably later - and players who saw the world, have experience will take over old boys who know only commie way of work.
 

Raimo Sillanpää

Registered User
Mar 11, 2003
1,867
214
Espoo, Finland
I'd rather say just focus singlemindedly on kids. The only nation to really jump in standings in the last 50 years is Finland - in the 60's we had like one indoor ice rink. In 74 - 12, in 82 - 32.
The secret sauce was to systematically work on the unglamorous aspects of the system - juniors, skating, stickhandling, skills - even if they all go abroad at 18, soon enough you'll have a national team of heroe's and enough not-good enoughs to raise the level of your league significantly. As the nation team starts getting success sponsors come etc.
And you will have a steady stream of enough kids to work with as long as you are in the top flight - Slovak fans are passionate about ice hockey, those fans have kids.
In Spring of 2003 the kid's were born who were conceived hours after Peter Bondra's gold winning goal - those kid's are now 12.

We don't talk about a single 12 year old here at HFBoards, that means that all is not lost - even if they are just average kids, if you double down on them in 6 years you will start to have a steady assembly line of national team players.
And who knows, maybe one of those kid's will score the next gold medal winning goal.

Maybe start focusing on them, give the 14,13,12,11,10 year olds more ice time, cut from the over 18 year olds who don't seem to be good enough and just wait patiently.
 

slovakiasnextone

Registered User
Jul 7, 2008
5,741
254
Slovakia
Well this thread is once again a ray of sunshine. :sarcasm:

There's lots of positives in Slovak hockey, but that never gets brought up. It's all blah blah federation, incompetence, not enough money.

Give us all a list, please.

I mean sure, there might be some clubs or individuals who make an effort and who work well, brining new ideas and so on, but there's no official coordinated effort to apply this throughout Slovak hockey at the moment. * Believing otherwise seems like lying to yourself to me.

I'm not counting Lintner and co., because as much as the fans love them, they are still very far from being in the position of power.

I think U20 team in domestic league is a great project which brought up some good results.
In some point there will be generation change in federation - sooner or later, probably later - and players who saw the world, have experience will take over old boys who know only commie way of work.

It's brought results, but what matters in the end isn't what place the u20 or the u18 finish at, but what kind of players those players become once they're done there. The earlier we understand that and move from the focus of just developing the system the players play in order to achieve results towards improving the individual skills of the players, the sooner Slovak hockey can move forward.

There have been some players who have played at the u18/u20 Worlds and who have become quality senior players, but most of them have preciously little to do with the u20/u18 teams. There are some exceptions like Marincin, J. Hudacek or Daloga, but all of them have only played like 20-30 games one season for the team, so they development most likely came before or after those short stint.

It's even more dire when you look at the forwards. Most of the ones that belonged to the best forwards on the u20 team over the years have disappeared into obscurity and plenty of them struggle to even be good players in the Slovak Extraliga. Just look where players like Rusnak, Duris, Konecny, Caladi, Uhnak, Mertel or Gaspar are today.

Of course there are always some exceptions, but once again we are mostly talking about players who have spent at most 30 games with the project inbetween playing for Slovak men's or foreign teams.


I'd rather say just focus singlemindedly on kids. The only nation to really jump in standings in the last 50 years is Finland - in the 60's we had like one indoor ice rink. In 74 - 12, in 82 - 32.
The secret sauce was to systematically work on the unglamorous aspects of the system - juniors, skating, stickhandling, skills - even if they all go abroad at 18, soon enough you'll have a national team of heroe's and enough not-good enoughs to raise the level of your league significantly. As the nation team starts getting success sponsors come etc.
And you will have a steady stream of enough kids to work with as long as you are in the top flight - Slovak fans are passionate about ice hockey, those fans have kids.
In Spring of 2003 the kid's were born who were conceived hours after Peter Bondra's gold winning goal - those kid's are now 12.

We don't talk about a single 12 year old here at HFBoards, that means that all is not lost - even if they are just average kids, if you double down on them in 6 years you will start to have a steady assembly line of national team players.
And who knows, maybe one of those kid's will score the next gold medal winning goal.

Maybe start focusing on them, give the 14,13,12,11,10 year olds more ice time, cut from the over 18 year olds who don't seem to be good enough and just wait patiently.

Everyone knows that you have to start with the kids if you want to move forward, but you have to get them to play first. Slovakia has around 60 ice-rinks right now, which might be still significantly less than Finland, but even at many of those the clubs struggle to get enough kids to play. But that's once again perhaps a question about marketing or about selling Slovak hockey as a good product, to paraphrase Lintner's words a bit. But that's hard to do with people like Siroky being directly involved in it.
 

slovakiasnextone

Registered User
Jul 7, 2008
5,741
254
Slovakia
What to say

I don't even have it in me to be disappointed anymore.

So anyway Vujtek's time is over, that'sa 2nd, 8th and two 9th places at the Worlds and 10th place at the Olympics.

The results at the Worlds seem like an improovement over the period of 08-11, however it is rather hard to compare due to the format change between 2011 and 2012. I believe that a longer tournament like the curren one actually suits an unpredictable team like Slovakia better than the previous one. Take 2008, we beat Norway easily in 1st game and then came the screwed up game against Germany and despite a loss a pretty ok game against Finland, which was with a bad result from Germany-Norway game still enough to make us play to avoid relegation. Those results were not so different from some of the results we have had in more recent years, so who knows how that team would have fared in the current 7 game round robin format.

Of course you can't blame everything on the coach, however at least this year I'd say that was a lot of stuff that the whole coaching staff can be blamed for.

I can understand how playing Vujtek's style makes it easier to play the harder opponents and all, however stuff like playing actively on the PK, forechecking or physical battes can't be any harder than in the games against Russian or Finns than against the Danes or Belarussians. Also if you know that you need to get points from the opponents from your own end of the table, it might be advisable to develop tactics for games with these teams rather than one that works against the top teams.

Also, I still don't get overplaying players like Sersen, Bliznak or Bartovic for most of the tournament in their current form. On the other hand players who perform well like Lusnak and Dravecky end up benched or in the stands. The constant chaning of the lines for every single game. The whole theater with Ruzicka prior to the tourney - and I'm not talking about that interview in Novy Cas, I'm talking about the way they called him up to replace one of our top players and were talking about giving him PP time after not playing for the NT since 2012, what kind of feeling does that leave in players who never declined the NT and were sent home? - and whateve you might think about Ruzicka as a player or as a person, I think we can agree that the way they sent him home was strange to say the least.

As much as I'd like to see us perform better next year, I'd also like us to get rid off this chaos and the bad "aura" that surrounds the team.
 

Jakk123

Registered User
May 6, 2014
1,277
110
Bratislava
Excellent statement today by ex-coach Filc that coach Vůjtek should have resigned after Sochi, or after last year's Worlds at the latest:

http://www.hokej.sk/2015/clanok1314...iba_chce_za_Vujteka_Cigera_Hascak_Bokrosa.htm

Just some blind posters here keep claiming the opposite. :help:

Who exactly posted that he shouldn't have resigned after Sochi or Minsk? Seems like you are having issues with reading comprehension, again :laugh:
And once again, Vujtek wanted to resign after Sochi, management and players wanted him to stay.

Oh, and I am already sorry for the next coach of our NT, because of fans like you.

But anyway, have fun expecting QFs every year with a different coach :laugh:
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad